Episode 9

SuperHanniFiles

We discuss S01E10 - Trou Normand and the theme of boundaries, both making and crossing them. Will Mary survive Hannibal's medical gaslighting of Will? Honestly we don't even know if WILL survives it.

Rude Eats is hosted by Marie Vigouroux and Jeremy Greer. Follow our YouTube channel for fun videos, episode previews, and full episodes. If the app you're using doesn't support built-in transcripts, you can find PDFs for each episode at this link.

You can hear more of Mary on her Supernatural podcast, Carrying Wayward, or her podcast about Our Flag Means Death, The Gentleman Pirate's Library. Jeremy's podcasts are collected at this website, unless you're looking for X-Men chat in which case you can use this link.

Podcast art by AlexDreamsArt, and you can find all of their links here. We encourage you to reach out to Alex if you need art commissioned, we were overwhelmingly satisfied with the level of detail and thought put into our podcast art.

Our intro theme and all music in the podcast was created by Jake Lionheart (with some help on the lyrics from Marie, Jeremy, and Autumn). Jake is a wonderful musician that can take any idea you throw at him and make it a reality. If you're looking to spruce up your podcast or your weekly DND sessions, get in touch.

Transcript
Marie Vigouroux:

I'm Marie Vigouroux,

Jeremy Greer:

I'm Jeremy Greer,

Marie Vigouroux:

and this is Rude Eats, a delicious podcast

Marie Vigouroux:

where we sink our teeth into every episode of the show

Marie Vigouroux:

Jake Lionheart (intro music): I want Will Graham, I really do

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal.

Marie Vigouroux:

and I think that we could have some fun. Then you can do

Marie Vigouroux:

anything you like. I might even go and help you catch the

Marie Vigouroux:

Shrike. I want Will Graham, I want that man for every meal and

Marie Vigouroux:

on demand. His mind shines and his body's cut. I know that he

Marie Vigouroux:

works for the FBI, but what other man has pure empathy and

Marie Vigouroux:

the ability to see my mind. Jack. What other thing have I

Marie Vigouroux:

ever asked you for besides never looking into my pantry? And I

Marie Vigouroux:

won't get that. Damn. I want Will Graham. I want him so and

Marie Vigouroux:

he really doesn't need to know what's in my meals or on my

Marie Vigouroux:

mind. I just want Will Graham to be mine. I want him, and I want

Marie Vigouroux:

him now. I said before, I don't care how. I'll give him tests.

Marie Vigouroux:

He'll draw a clock, and then his dark desires I will unlock.

Marie Vigouroux:

We'll be together, Willll and me. We'll throw some brand in

Marie Vigouroux:

the parties. We'll cut the flesh. We'll cook the meat.

Marie Vigouroux:

He'll eat the food just like me. Give me goddamn Will Graham.

Jeremy Greer:

Well, well, well, Mary, as we get into deeper to

Jeremy Greer:

season one. I can't tell you how excited I am to hear your

Jeremy Greer:

reactions to this show, specifically this episode where

Jeremy Greer:

some things are revealed that you have kind of been guessing

Jeremy Greer:

that for quite some time.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah. I mean, listen, I think the first time

Marie Vigouroux:

that I watched this episode, usually I'm like, live tweeting

Marie Vigouroux:

to you, right, like when I watched them, and this time, I

Marie Vigouroux:

didn't, and I just, I watched it, I like, closed my computer,

Marie Vigouroux:

and I just, I just went to bed, and I was like, that's enough. I

Marie Vigouroux:

need. I think I'm good. That's enough.

Jeremy Greer:

There's a, there's a meme that goes around Twitter

Jeremy Greer:

from a guy named Austin Walker, where he tweeted out, have you

Jeremy Greer:

ever seen a take so bad? It just makes you immediately want to go

Jeremy Greer:

to sleep. And have you ever seen a Hannibal episode that had so

Jeremy Greer:

much that just makes you immediately want to go to sleep?

Jeremy Greer:

It's very much, so much. It's I'm so like, you've been

Jeremy Greer:

guessing at some of the stuff that's revealed here for a

Jeremy Greer:

while. And I'm curious, does it feel good to be right?

Marie Vigouroux:

No, Jeremy, it feels awful. I didn't want to be

Marie Vigouroux:

right about any of this.

Jeremy Greer:

Why don't you tell everybody what episode we're

Jeremy Greer:

covering, and then we'll get into it.

Marie Vigouroux:

All right. Today we are covering Hannibal,

Marie Vigouroux:

season one, episode nine, Trou Normand, a totem pole of human

Marie Vigouroux:

bodies ranging from freshly killed to decades old, are found

Marie Vigouroux:

on a beach, and while Graham is investigating the crime scene,

Marie Vigouroux:

he suddenly finds finds himself in lecters office, three and a

Marie Vigouroux:

half hours away, with no recollection of how he got

Marie Vigouroux:

there. That was a very long sentence. My English teacher

Marie Vigouroux:

would have been like, run on, run on. Lecter theorizes that

Marie Vigouroux:

Graham's mind is trying to escape from having to

Marie Vigouroux:

investigate such brutal murders. This episode was directed by

Marie Vigouroux:

Guillermo Navarro, written by Steve Lightfoot, and it

Marie Vigouroux:

originally aired on May 23 2013

Jeremy Greer:

Absolutely, the episode description doesn't does

Jeremy Greer:

a, I think, a disservice to this episode, which is packed full of

Jeremy Greer:

character revelations and just just just a lot of stuff to get

Jeremy Greer:

into. And it's interesting. Rewatching Hannibal for this

Jeremy Greer:

podcast has been interesting. The thing that I keep taking

Jeremy Greer:

away from it is just how, like, unimportant the monster of the

Jeremy Greer:

week kind of killer stuff is, and the grand scheme of things

Jeremy Greer:

like how they just really use it as, like a bed to, like, grow

Jeremy Greer:

this relationship between all of these different characters. But

Jeremy Greer:

at the same time, if I think, if you asked people, this episode

Jeremy Greer:

specifically, with this enormous totem pole of human bodies that

Jeremy Greer:

we're going to see at the very beginning is one of the most

Jeremy Greer:

memorable things from the show. So like, when you talk to people

Jeremy Greer:

like, they'll tell you about the kills because they're like, so

Jeremy Greer:

over the top and crazy. But like, if you really dig into the

Jeremy Greer:

episodes from a critical perspective, like you and I are

Jeremy Greer:

doing, they don't matter at all.

Marie Vigouroux:

None of that matters. I, like, have zero

Marie Vigouroux:

notes about this.

Jeremy Greer:

It's so funny all of the science stuff, like, I

Jeremy Greer:

don't even think I wrote down how they found the killer, and

Jeremy Greer:

then, like, the twist with the killer thing, I just was like,

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, sure, okay, I see what they're doing there, but

Jeremy Greer:

whatever, it's just so funny that none of this stuff actually

Jeremy Greer:

matters.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, exactly. It's kind of one of those things

Marie Vigouroux:

where I've noticed so far that the the monster of the week is

Marie Vigouroux:

kind of like, it's really created in order to, like, be a

Marie Vigouroux:

mirror to what's going on with with the characters and like, of

Marie Vigouroux:

course, a lot of those, like cases, like case by case, like

Marie Vigouroux:

weekly cases, procedurals are about that, but like Hannibal,

Marie Vigouroux:

particularly, like it is only made for that, you know, like

Marie Vigouroux:

it's and so I'm looking at this particular storyline with that

Marie Vigouroux:

in mind, and I'm like, okay, so what does that say about our

Marie Vigouroux:

characters? Like, this particular situation, this

Marie Vigouroux:

particular case, like, what does it say about Hannibal, about

Marie Vigouroux:

Abigail, about will, about Jack, about, you know, everybody?

Jeremy Greer:

All of our little weirdos that show up in this

Jeremy Greer:

episode, including, including our fave, Freddie Lowndes, we

Jeremy Greer:

love Freddie.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, my God, anyway. Oh, that last scene.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay, okay, okay.

Jeremy Greer:

We had some difficulty, I think, yeah,

Jeremy Greer:

coming up with a theme for this episode, because I did not know

Jeremy Greer:

what a - is it Trou Normand - am I doing it right? I did not know

Jeremy Greer:

what a Trou Normand was when we started, because I am not fancy

Jeremy Greer:

like that, and then, and you'll describe what it is here in a

Jeremy Greer:

second. But we it didn't really, I didn't I felt like it didn't

Jeremy Greer:

really fit the episode, because the episode felt real twisty,

Jeremy Greer:

like, it felt real like, gotcha, almost like, oh, we thought You

Jeremy Greer:

thought this was going to be a thing, but actually it's this.

Jeremy Greer:

And so I was kind of thinking like, oh, maybe there's

Jeremy Greer:

something weird in the way this is made. And then that didn't

Jeremy Greer:

work out, and then you had the suggestion of boundaries, and

Jeremy Greer:

that's when we kind of like seized on something. And I'll

Jeremy Greer:

kind of let you explain it from there.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, yeah, I think that there's, there could

Marie Vigouroux:

have been a lot of ways to go about this, to be honest,

Marie Vigouroux:

because I was re watching it after we set we, like, set

Marie Vigouroux:

ourselves on boundaries. And I was like, oh yeah, we could have

Marie Vigouroux:

done, like, depending on how you look at this episode, there's,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, a bunch of ways that you can relate it, but they're all,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, pretty thin, and it's getting harder, like, we

Marie Vigouroux:

actually have to think. Now, I'm like, oh my god, thinking, what?

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay, so Trou Normand is the title of this episode, and

Marie Vigouroux:

traditionally un trou Normand, is simply like having a shot of

Marie Vigouroux:

Calvados, which is an apple brandy made from the region of

Marie Vigouroux:

Calvados in France. Actually, it's an it's an AOC. I did not

Marie Vigouroux:

know that. I thought that that was kind of like a thing, like

Marie Vigouroux:

just a generic thing, but it's not. And so it's basically

Marie Vigouroux:

having a shot of Calvados between dishes and a meal,

Marie Vigouroux:

because people thought that the alcohol would dilate your

Marie Vigouroux:

stomach so that you could then eat more and ignore your hunger

Marie Vigouroux:

cues. And it comes from a very, very old French tradition that,

Marie Vigouroux:

like people don't really use anymore of drinking three shots

Marie Vigouroux:

during your meal called le coup d'avant, le coup du milieu, and

Marie Vigouroux:

le coup d'après, meaning literally the before shot, the

Marie Vigouroux:

middle shot, and the after shot. And the trou Normand was that

Marie Vigouroux:

middle shot, so to speak, basically to make it so that

Marie Vigouroux:

even though you were probably not hungry anymore, you could

Marie Vigouroux:

eat more after having it. Today, though, people will usually have

Marie Vigouroux:

like apple sorbet with Calvados, and that's your modern trou

Marie Vigouroux:

Normand. With that in mind, we figured that a good theme for

Marie Vigouroux:

this episode, like you said, would be boundaries or limits,

Marie Vigouroux:

particularly ignoring or stretching those boundaries or

Marie Vigouroux:

those limits, because, like, if a trou Normand is meant to make

Marie Vigouroux:

you stretch your stomach and ignore the limits of your

Marie Vigouroux:

appetite, this episode shows a lot of ignoring boundaries and

Marie Vigouroux:

stretching limits.

Jeremy Greer:

Sure does. I was rewatching the episode last

Jeremy Greer:

night with Autumn, and she pointed out too a thing that

Jeremy Greer:

I've started doing since you and I are making notes, and we're

Jeremy Greer:

kind of watching each episode twice, is sharing our theme with

Jeremy Greer:

Autumn, so that when we rewatch it, her and I can talk about it,

Jeremy Greer:

Autumn becoming like the Ghost Host of this podcast. And she

Jeremy Greer:

pointed out that like this could also be used as almost a palate

Jeremy Greer:

cleanser, in some cases, just as a way for a lot of these

Jeremy Greer:

characters to having expressed everything that they've been

Jeremy Greer:

hiding, not everything, but like to get stuff off their chest and

Jeremy Greer:

to kind of reset the table, almost right. Like to kind of,

Jeremy Greer:

like lay out a different course, essentially, before the before

Jeremy Greer:

the next meal, before the next food begins.

Marie Vigouroux:

For the next dish. Yeah. Well, you know

Marie Vigouroux:

what's really funny is that, when I rewatched it, I was like,

Marie Vigouroux:

oh, man, this could be about like, things coming to light,

Marie Vigouroux:

because, like, trou is hole, right? So like things coming out

Marie Vigouroux:

of the hole, literally, things are coming out of holes.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, people knowledge, or, you know, holes

Jeremy Greer:

in the ground that hide corpses or any number of things.

Marie Vigouroux:

Exactly. And so I'm like, and so I completely

Marie Vigouroux:

agree with Autumn that, like this is definitely like a

Marie Vigouroux:

palette cleanser, like a leveling of a lot of things,

Marie Vigouroux:

right?

Jeremy Greer:

And it's exciting too. I think that there's quite

Jeremy Greer:

a bit we learn about the characters on here. Obviously,

Jeremy Greer:

like, the stuff with Abigail is finally confirmed, like, we

Jeremy Greer:

finally know what the secret she's been happening having

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal be honest with will when the time comes. I think

Jeremy Greer:

it's almost shocking, because it's so casual, and seeing the

Jeremy Greer:

unfortunate side effect of Jack be just absolutely brutal and

Jeremy Greer:

crossing boundaries with Abigail, but also be correct is

Jeremy Greer:

just really difficult to watch, so it's gonna be fun as we go.

Jeremy Greer:

Through our episode to actually kind of apply these different

Jeremy Greer:

themes that we've been talking about to each of these

Jeremy Greer:

characters.

Marie Vigouroux:

I was so mad that Jack was right, by the way,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, actually mad. I was like, No! No!

Jeremy Greer:

Our mutual friend Mike sent me like, a three

Jeremy Greer:

minute voicemail the other day, and it was just like, he was

Jeremy Greer:

just like, I'm having a hard time remembering the time where

Jeremy Greer:

Jack was wrong. And I'm not sure if he was just talking about the

Jeremy Greer:

first season or the whole show, or I'm not sure where he is in

Jeremy Greer:

his rewatch but it was just fun to get that and to have you DM

Jeremy Greer:

me, like, a couple of weeks later, I'd be like, I hate that

Jeremy Greer:

Jack is right.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, I really hate that he was right about

Marie Vigouroux:

this.

Jeremy Greer:

Do you have any last kind of comments on our

Jeremy Greer:

theme before we jump into our beat by eat section?

Marie Vigouroux:

Just that, I'm very excited to get to the beat

Marie Vigouroux:

by eat because there's so much I want to talk about.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, I'm excited to finish this podcast so that

Jeremy Greer:

you can DM me about episode 10, because you're gonna lose your

Jeremy Greer:

mind. Oh, no, let's get into it.

Jeremy Greer:

Going to start with Jack and will who are on a beach in West

Jeremy Greer:

Virginia, and they're at the scene of a grotesque display.

Jeremy Greer:

This is a literal totem of bodies. Our our ERT group, are

Jeremy Greer:

kind of making jokes about this being a puzzle, about puzzle

Jeremy Greer:

pieces needing corners. Corners being the heads. Beverly says,

Jeremy Greer:

We have too many corners, seven grades and way too many heads.

Jeremy Greer:

There are little, literal graves dug up around this. So whoever

Jeremy Greer:

did this, planted bodies came back, pulled the bodies out of

Jeremy Greer:

the ground, combined them with other bodies, and then built

Jeremy Greer:

this, like I said, grotesque, beautiful display of bodies.

Marie Vigouroux:

and Jeremy, no matter how accurate your

Marie Vigouroux:

description is like, it is nowhere near what it actually

Marie Vigouroux:

looks like like. There is no way that I could have imagined what

Marie Vigouroux:

that thing really looked like if somebody had just described it

Marie Vigouroux:

to me. So I don't know. I just needed to say that. And I also

Marie Vigouroux:

have just a little comment that I want to get out of the way,

Marie Vigouroux:

just because that is just who I am. But, like, totem poles are

Marie Vigouroux:

an indigenous tradition of the peoples of what we call today

Marie Vigouroux:

the pacific northwest of the US. But as well as British Columbia

Marie Vigouroux:

in Canada, and totem poles are basically meant to commemorate,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, stories, families and ancestors. So I, you know, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

this is a TV show, like their job is not to educate us. But I,

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm definitely so I'm definitely not wanting to kind of fall

Marie Vigouroux:

within, like, the white savior trope here. But I did cringe a

Marie Vigouroux:

little bit when I saw this, like, super meaningful

Marie Vigouroux:

indigenous custom being used for, like, esthetics on a murder

Marie Vigouroux:

show without any kind of context. So just do it that way

Marie Vigouroux:

you will.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, I think it's important to mention that

Jeremy Greer:

because it's, you know, something that's not really used

Jeremy Greer:

correctly in the grand scheme of things, right? They there's a

Jeremy Greer:

all of these corpses look like they're old, except for the one

Jeremy Greer:

at the very top. And Jack says something about these graves

Jeremy Greer:

being desecrated, and will correct some these graves

Jeremy Greer:

weren't desecrated. They were exposed. And it's time for Jack

Jeremy Greer:

to excuse me, time for will to do his thing. So the pendulum

Jeremy Greer:

starts. The scene rewinds. Will kind of wakes up, and he

Jeremy Greer:

describes himself, kind of narrates himself, as we've seen

Jeremy Greer:

him do, like I've planned this monument with precision,

Jeremy Greer:

collected all of my raw materials in advance. I did a

Jeremy Greer:

little did a little happy dance when he said raw materials,

Jeremy Greer:

having put together the raw materials thing in the last

Jeremy Greer:

episode between Tobias and Hannibal, collecting raw

Jeremy Greer:

materials for their passion. And I was like, oh, so the show just

Jeremy Greer:

underlined that for me. Thank you, show that helps a lot.

Marie Vigouroux:

It'slike they're gonna do something awful

Marie Vigouroux:

with that, thanks.

Jeremy Greer:

It's, it's becoming more difficult, I think

Jeremy Greer:

to watch will reenact these murders, and I think that that's

Jeremy Greer:

very specifically done as we watch like him, positioning the

Jeremy Greer:

bodies, like tying these tying these bodies up in a specific

Jeremy Greer:

shape with like, rope and rebar, right? And I think it's

Jeremy Greer:

difficult for us to watch, and it's obviously difficult for

Jeremy Greer:

will to do, as we're going to find out over the course of the

Jeremy Greer:

episode. And his last victim is tied up on the beach. He's not

Jeremy Greer:

dead yet. And, you know, Will says, This is my design. I

Jeremy Greer:

wanted him to know my design. And he walks over and he stabs

Jeremy Greer:

the dude in the chest. And we we see the guy die as blood pools

Jeremy Greer:

below. And we get this incredibly slow pan up of this

Jeremy Greer:

grotesque totem, starting from the bottom going all the way to

Jeremy Greer:

the top, where you can just see how much detail, how much care

Jeremy Greer:

went into this display of corpses tied up and butchered,

Jeremy Greer:

and it's the show is reveling in it, right? Like they obviously

Jeremy Greer:

spent a lot of time working on this, like they wanted to shock

Jeremy Greer:

and awe you. And I think we ask people about Hannibal, this is

Jeremy Greer:

one of the most memorable things about the show, and this is one

Jeremy Greer:

of the things that I keep coming back to, because it's also one

Jeremy Greer:

of the least important things in Hannibal, if you talk about the

Jeremy Greer:

show, but it's one of the most memorable things, and I find

Jeremy Greer:

that just fascinating.

Marie Vigouroux:

I you know how last week, we were talking about

Marie Vigouroux:

how I would probably have, like, a grossed out reaction to

Marie Vigouroux:

something really benign, like that. I was fine with somebody

Marie Vigouroux:

playing a human being, but, like, I hated this totem pole so

Marie Vigouroux:

much. I was so grossed out by it in so many ways. And I was like,

Marie Vigouroux:

This is it? This is my point. I hate this.

Jeremy Greer:

It gets worse. This is a warning. It's gonna

Jeremy Greer:

get worse.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay, great, thank you.

Jeremy Greer:

Will says that this is his resume. This is my

Jeremy Greer:

body of work. This is my legacy. And he wakes up, and instead of

Jeremy Greer:

being at the beach, he's at Hannibal's office, very

Jeremy Greer:

confused, and Hannibal comes out to meet him, and was not

Jeremy Greer:

expecting will to be here. And obviously will is freaking out

Jeremy Greer:

right now, and Hannibal is very calm. He says that will is

Jeremy Greer:

disassociating, that he's hiding from the abuse that he's putting

Jeremy Greer:

himself through, that Jack is forcing him to look at these

Jeremy Greer:

bodies, forcing him to use his quote, empathy disorder, and

Jeremy Greer:

it's basically amounts to abuse, even if he's abusing himself.

Jeremy Greer:

And will rejects this. He goes, No, no, I'm saving lives. And

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal says, Well, what about your life? I don't care about

Jeremy Greer:

the lives you save. I care about your life. And your life is

Jeremy Greer:

separating from reality at this point. Will admits to

Jeremy Greer:

sleepwalking and hallucinating, which is,

Marie Vigouroux:

and it's the first time he does that.

Jeremy Greer:

This is the first time I think he's told anybody.

Jeremy Greer:

And he's like, maybe I should get my brain scanned. And

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal is like, will no stop looking at in the wrong corners

Jeremy Greer:

for your answers. And this is so telling. This is, this is

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal giving away himself so badly.

Marie Vigouroux:

Listen. So okay, so you and I had a DM

Marie Vigouroux:

conversation about this, because one thing that I've written

Marie Vigouroux:

about in my academic career is called testimonial injustice in

Marie Vigouroux:

medicine. So it's this idea that doctors don't always listen to

Marie Vigouroux:

their patients because of the like unconscious bias that they

Marie Vigouroux:

have against different aspects of their patient's identity. So

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm particularly interested in moments when doctors dismiss the

Marie Vigouroux:

concerns of patients who are like young women who are

Marie Vigouroux:

disabled, particularly by chronic pain. And so all of my

Marie Vigouroux:

red flags came up when Will said, I think there's something

Marie Vigouroux:

wrong with me. I want a brain scan. And Hannibal was like,

Marie Vigouroux:

nah, this is a psychiatric problem. Like, big fuck you,

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal, because I can excuse cannibalism, but I draw the line

Marie Vigouroux:

at medical gaslighting. Like, I mean, will has insurance, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, get him a brain scan. Like, you've got a man who's

Marie Vigouroux:

hallucinating a brain scan isn't actually a crazy request, it's a

Marie Vigouroux:

completely valid one. And if the MRI comes back clean, then you

Marie Vigouroux:

then you investigate other options. But like, I was like,

Marie Vigouroux:

this is, this is a big no no. And, and while I was watching

Marie Vigouroux:

this, I was also transcribing the episode with the angel

Marie Vigouroux:

maker, who has, like, this brain tumor, right? And, like, I was

Marie Vigouroux:

noticing how many similarities there were between this episode

Marie Vigouroux:

and, like, what's happening to the angel maker? And I'm like,

Marie Vigouroux:

is will sick? Like, is he actually sick? And, like, and I

Marie Vigouroux:

came back to this, and I was like, yes, something's wrong

Marie Vigouroux:

with Will. Like, something is physically wrong with this man,

Jeremy Greer:

any I mean, do you want to guess anything? Do you

Jeremy Greer:

want to, do you want to do a prediction of any kind?

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, I don't know. I mean, I feel like it

Marie Vigouroux:

would be really cheesy if they did, like a brain tumor, but

Marie Vigouroux:

maybe, like some kind of growth, like, I don't know, did he get a

Marie Vigouroux:

concussion or something? But that, I don't know. I don't

Marie Vigouroux:

know. I'm not a doctor. I have no idea.

Jeremy Greer:

Sure. I'm fascinated by this idea. Like I

Jeremy Greer:

didn't know this that you had written about this in your

Jeremy Greer:

academic career when we started this podcast. If I did, I would

Jeremy Greer:

not have been able to shut the fuck up about it. So the fact

Jeremy Greer:

that it just comes up naturally within the course of this the

Jeremy Greer:

show, and it's gonna be something, I think that you're

Jeremy Greer:

gonna your red flags are going up, and they're probably gonna

Jeremy Greer:

stay up for a few episodes, so we're just gonna listen, gonna

Jeremy Greer:

keep rolling. It is, it is a lot for Hannibal. And I think it's

Jeremy Greer:

just, you know, this is another sign of Hannibal manipulating

Jeremy Greer:

will, right? Like this is, we've talked a lot about him, his

Jeremy Greer:

ability, his desire, to control the things around him. And this

Jeremy Greer:

is just another one of those of pointing will in a direction.

Marie Vigouroux:

In a different direction. And also, like, one

Marie Vigouroux:

thing that I, I, I thought back to, is the fact it's is, like

Marie Vigouroux:

his sense of smell, right? So, like, if will is sick, then he

Marie Vigouroux:

must know, and he's there, therefore, like, purposely

Marie Vigouroux:

pointing him elsewhere, which is, like, awful, like, I don't

Marie Vigouroux:

know it - can Will die of whatever it is that he has, like

Marie Vigouroux:

is, anyway, I don't I don't know. I don't know. I don't

Marie Vigouroux:

know. I don't know.

Jeremy Greer:

Poor will is all I will say. Poor will. Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

changes the subject, not flirtatiously this time, but he

Jeremy Greer:

asked about the crime scene. And will describes this killer

Jeremy Greer:

building this totem pole as marking his achievements. And

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal is getting worried. He says that will empathize is so

Jeremy Greer:

completely with the murders that Jack has him looking at that

Jeremy Greer:

it's breaking his mind. And he goes so far to say, I don't want

Jeremy Greer:

you to wake up looking at a totem of your own making. And I

Jeremy Greer:

feel like this works in a couple of different ways. Like, there's

Jeremy Greer:

the there's like, the metaphor of a totem of this, like, gross

Jeremy Greer:

monument to your quote, unquote achievements, right, that he's

Jeremy Greer:

talking about, but then also, like, kind of insinuating that

Jeremy Greer:

will could be a murderer, right? Because that's one of the things

Jeremy Greer:

that will is worried about having killed Garrett Jacob

Jeremy Greer:

Hobbs, and played into Will's fear of how much he like

Jeremy Greer:

responded to that emotionally. Is, again, fuck you. Hannibal is

Jeremy Greer:

the -

Marie Vigouroux:

that is also something that I was mentioning

Marie Vigouroux:

in that specific in the angel maker episode, where I was like,

Marie Vigouroux:

did will kill those people, because it sounds like he could

Marie Vigouroux:

have and I just ah, this show!

Jeremy Greer:

Makes you want to scream. We're gonna catch up

Jeremy Greer:

with our with our girl, Abigail. We get our intro to the show,

Jeremy Greer:

and then we're gonna catch up with Abigail, who we haven't

Jeremy Greer:

really seen significantly in a while. She showed up in one of

Jeremy Greer:

Will's dreams, and that's really about it. She's in group

Jeremy Greer:

therapy. She's describing hearing her dad's voice every

Jeremy Greer:

day whispering into her ear, saying that he told her to kill

Jeremy Greer:

girls again and again so that he told me that he killed girls

Jeremy Greer:

again and again so that he wouldn't have to kill me. And

Jeremy Greer:

she wants to know why, like, what it is about her that was so

Jeremy Greer:

bad that he had to kill that he wanted to kill her so bad. And

Jeremy Greer:

when she looks up, we realize all of the group therapy

Jeremy Greer:

participants have turned into her father's victims, and

Jeremy Greer:

there's basically just yelling at her, like, you know, he

Jeremy Greer:

should have killed you. He should have killed you because

Jeremy Greer:

he wouldn't have killed me. And then they all disappear, and we

Jeremy Greer:

see Nick, the person that she actually killed, and he says he

Jeremy Greer:

should have killed you so that you wouldn't have killed me. And

Jeremy Greer:

then she wakes up in bed, sweaty, having from this

Jeremy Greer:

nightmare.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, this is one of those scenes where I just

Marie Vigouroux:

couldn't take notes, even on rewatch, because I just was just

Marie Vigouroux:

so fascinated with what was happening on screen, and I have

Marie Vigouroux:

nothing else to say except, wow, that's, that's what I have in my

Marie Vigouroux:

notes. Like, that's it.

Jeremy Greer:

Intense. It's extremely intense. Will arrives

Jeremy Greer:

at Jack's office, and he's there to apologize rather steepestly.

Jeremy Greer:

And Jack is like, what's about, what like, what's going on?

Jeremy Greer:

Like, are you? Are you? Are you okay? And Jack's and will is

Jeremy Greer:

confused. He assumed that when he blacked out and drove three

Jeremy Greer:

and a half hours to see Hannibal that he left some sort of

Jeremy Greer:

impression on Jack. And Jack was like, No, I didn't even notice

Jeremy Greer:

anything. Jack even, will even go so far to say, like, I seem

Jeremy Greer:

fine to you. And Jack presses him on this and boy, if Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

is a manipulator, Jack is in the same fucking class, because he's

Jeremy Greer:

like, you know, if there's a problem, you need to tell me

Jeremy Greer:

there's a problem. Is there a problem? Will and will is like,

Jeremy Greer:

no, no, no. And this is just such a huge example of

Jeremy Greer:

manipulating somebody, because it's obvious there's a problem.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, you can't look at will and go, like, that's normal. Like,

Jeremy Greer:

Alana looks at will and is, like, I want to date that, but I

Jeremy Greer:

gotta fix it first. Like, I mean, like, you can easily tell

Jeremy Greer:

that he is under some sort of mental and emotional duress.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, he's obviously not at optimum performance level, like

Jeremy Greer:

he's not, he shouldn't be at work, right? Like you can kind

Jeremy Greer:

of tell that. And instead of taking the responsibility as a

Jeremy Greer:

leader and as a mentor, Jack pushes that responsibility back

Jeremy Greer:

onto will and says, Well, you have to tell me if you're sick.

Jeremy Greer:

And I don't, I don't know anything about, like, kind of

Jeremy Greer:

medical stuff, really at all. I'm not a trained expert, but I

Jeremy Greer:

would imagine that it's much more difficult for someone to

Jeremy Greer:

admit they have a problem than for someone to reach out and

Jeremy Greer:

help them with that problem. And it just feels really icky that

Jeremy Greer:

Jack is doing this.

Marie Vigouroux:

Of course, like, I mean, I mean, that's

Marie Vigouroux:

something that we've talked about a lot in this podcast,

Marie Vigouroux:

about how, like, Jack uses similar manipulation technique

Marie Vigouroux:

tactics than Hannibal, and here it's no different, like, because

Marie Vigouroux:

Jack doesn't actually want will to tell him that there's a

Marie Vigouroux:

problem, right? Because then he wouldn't be able to use him

Marie Vigouroux:

anymore in his investigation.

Jeremy Greer:

Exactly.

Marie Vigouroux:

He wouldn't be able to use him to close cases

Marie Vigouroux:

for his own advantage, right? For his own advancement within

Marie Vigouroux:

the FBI. And so he's making sure that will won't tell him, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

By putting the exact kind of pressure on will that he knows

Marie Vigouroux:

will make him not want to tell him, which is particularly awful

Marie Vigouroux:

given that, like, Will was there for Jack when Jack needed help.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, yeah, just showed up with a. Questions

Jeremy Greer:

unasked. Just was there for his boy, right? And now, and now you

Jeremy Greer:

have this, which is Jack, just like, oh, I have, I can't help

Jeremy Greer:

you, because I have to use you.

Marie Vigouroux:

I need Beverly to intervene, frankly.

Jeremy Greer:

This whole show needs Beverly. Look, we need way

Jeremy Greer:

more Beverly to be honest with you. We should. We should always

Jeremy Greer:

be asking, where Beverly is when she's not on the screen.

Marie Vigouroux:

Because, again, like, because the ERT team is,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, so, like, I don't know loosey goosey with their roles

Marie Vigouroux:

and responsibilities. Like, I don't really know what

Marie Vigouroux:

Beverly's, like training is, but she would know that something's

Marie Vigouroux:

wrong with will. And I just, I need her to intervene now.

Jeremy Greer:

We need her. We need her now. We're gonna jump

Jeremy Greer:

back over to Abigail, who is meeting with Freddie Lowndes.

Jeremy Greer:

She tells Freddie that she sold her parents house, but didn't

Jeremy Greer:

really get a good price for it, because, you know, it's a it's a

Jeremy Greer:

murder house, and Freddie says it doesn't matter anyway, that

Jeremy Greer:

they're there, she's being sued, and that the victims families

Jeremy Greer:

are probably going to get all of that money, but she could get

Jeremy Greer:

her own money if she helps Freddie write a book about her

Jeremy Greer:

father. Freddie says, like, there's nobody else that's that

Jeremy Greer:

knows more about what your father did than I do. And

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail says, Well, what about will Graham? He's like, Well,

Jeremy Greer:

let's not talking about Will she and Abigail says, Will avoids me

Jeremy Greer:

because I make him feel like my father. And Freddie says,

Jeremy Greer:

feeling like your father makes him feel like a killer. And

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail is just like, I'm gonna ignore that statement too. I

Jeremy Greer:

don't really know how to respond to that.

Marie Vigouroux:

Such a piece of shit, honestly. Like, I dislike

Marie Vigouroux:

her so much.

Jeremy Greer:

And Abigail agrees finally, to to tell to allow

Jeremy Greer:

Freddie to tell her story, to write this book. And you're

Jeremy Greer:

right, like, it's interesting because in the show, she's such

Jeremy Greer:

a, like, a carefully coiffed and poised character, but she's got

Jeremy Greer:

this kind of, like scumbag, like profession situation happening.

Jeremy Greer:

And in the books, like the scumbag is just full present,

Jeremy Greer:

like in the books, like this is like a described as, like, a

Jeremy Greer:

short, fat, greasy, kind of, like, scumbag dude, reporter

Jeremy Greer:

guy. It's an interesting twist, the way that they did Freddie

Jeremy Greer:

Lowndes. And I kind of love it, because, like, you look at her

Jeremy Greer:

and you think, like, Oh, she can do this and she could do this,

Jeremy Greer:

respectively. But like, she's also, like, getting into the

Jeremy Greer:

dirt.

Marie Vigouroux:

But that's the thing like to me, even though,

Marie Vigouroux:

no matter how pretty she is, no matter how, like, you know, well

Marie Vigouroux:

groomed she is, she, she is such a scumbag. Like, the way she is

Marie Vigouroux:

with Abigail, like, I don't even care, like, it's one of those

Marie Vigouroux:

things. Like, you know how sometimes, like, really

Marie Vigouroux:

beautiful people are really, really awful, yes, and you're

Marie Vigouroux:

just like, you can no longer see their beauty just because of how

Marie Vigouroux:

awful they are, and you're just like, you smell like vinegar to

Marie Vigouroux:

me. Now, like, I don't know if that's just me, but like, I get

Marie Vigouroux:

that. No, no,

Jeremy Greer:

No, no, I think that's a really good - I think

Jeremy Greer:

that's a really good way to put it, of just like they smell like

Jeremy Greer:

vinegar, like they're just off putting, absolutely.

Marie Vigouroux:

And, and I'm kind of torn here, because

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, you're like that Tiktok guy, the red flag

Jeremy Greer:

obviously, like, autobiographical writing, like,

Jeremy Greer:

is actually, like, kind of a normal reaction to really big

Jeremy Greer:

life events, and particularly to trauma, and it's well documented

Jeremy Greer:

that like, it can help not only the person doing the writing,

Jeremy Greer:

but also the people reading in order to deal with the things

Jeremy Greer:

that they've been through. But this is Freddie Lowndes we're

Jeremy Greer:

talking about here like, that's partnering with Abigail and

Jeremy Greer:

again, like, my red flags, like there are not, I don't hands to

Jeremy Greer:

put them all up.

Jeremy Greer:

guy on Tiktok, he just runs back and forth with a giant red flag.

Jeremy Greer:

We're gonna jump to the morgue, which is now packed with the

Jeremy Greer:

bodies that they have pulled away from the Totem and also

Jeremy Greer:

picture the way that it was, pictures of the way it was

Jeremy Greer:

assembled. They've counted up a total of 17 bodies, and the most

Jeremy Greer:

recent one is special, as will describes the seven graves that

Jeremy Greer:

were around the totem pole are all wrong for wrongful deaths

Jeremy Greer:

that were attributed as accidents. And will just as like

Jeremy Greer:

they're all murders and turns around and walks away like It

Jeremy Greer:

must be really difficult working with this guy on a day to day

Jeremy Greer:

basis

Marie Vigouroux:

for sure, for sure.

Jeremy Greer:

And we go to Will's classroom where he's

Jeremy Greer:

going through the list of victims that they've identified,

Jeremy Greer:

saying that every death was made to look like something else,

Jeremy Greer:

like the method of these murders is less important than the

Jeremy Greer:

simple fact that they die. Except for this latest one,

Jeremy Greer:

where you know this killer built in a literal monument to his to

Jeremy Greer:

his kills, and put this latest victim on top of his -

Jeremy Greer:

ostentatious is the word, I think, will uses. So something

Jeremy Greer:

changed, if the design was to remain unnoticed, why is this?

Jeremy Greer:

Why is he coming out to the light now?

Marie Vigouroux:

And it's interesting, you're using like

Marie Vigouroux:

the words, or like will uses the words, like coming out to the

Marie Vigouroux:

light, because it made me think about that. This is also what

Marie Vigouroux:

Abigail is doing right, like coming to the light by telling

Marie Vigouroux:

her story, and also possibly unearthing some other secrets as

Marie Vigouroux:

well.

Jeremy Greer:

You know, we didn't specifically say this,

Jeremy Greer:

but to go back to that Jack and will conversation. Like, when we

Jeremy Greer:

talk about pushing boundaries, right? Like, think that I just

Jeremy Greer:

wanted to relate that back to our theme. I don't think we

Jeremy Greer:

specifically said that, even though it did, it does fit,

Jeremy Greer:

right? Like this is and also, like the killer is doing this.

Jeremy Greer:

Like the killer was, you know, was working within the confines

Jeremy Greer:

of his own design, and now he's pushing against that.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Jeremy Greer:

Alana steps in the room, and we realized that will

Jeremy Greer:

has just been talking to an empty classroom. Whether or not

Jeremy Greer:

he's been he finished his class and they all left and he's just

Jeremy Greer:

been sitting there this entire time, or he's just been doing

Jeremy Greer:

this the entire time. And Alana interprets this is, like,

Jeremy Greer:

rehearsing. Like, oh, what I mean to interrupt you, if you're

Jeremy Greer:

like, practicing your, you know your speech, I don't know what

Jeremy Greer:

you call it. With you, your

Marie Vigouroux:

your lecture

Jeremy Greer:

your lecture. There you go. That's the word

Jeremy Greer:

I'm looking for. Thank you.

Marie Vigouroux:

And like, and just like, Get this man a brain

Marie Vigouroux:

scan. Just get him to the nearest hospital, throw him into

Marie Vigouroux:

an MRI machine and get him a brain scan. Like that is all I

Marie Vigouroux:

want.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah. And it's even worse, because Alana comes

Jeremy Greer:

in, and we talked a lot about Alana and will in their

Jeremy Greer:

relationship in the last episode, where they kiss the

Jeremy Greer:

first time, and she kind of did a well now that I can have you,

Jeremy Greer:

I don't want you thing. And we see the same thing here, where

Jeremy Greer:

she's like, Oh, I regretted the way that I left it. He and he's

Jeremy Greer:

like, regretted it and that you wanted to redo it like he's you

Jeremy Greer:

could tell he's just so fucking confused. And she says, like, I

Jeremy Greer:

don't want to mislead you, but I don't want to lie to you either.

Jeremy Greer:

And I'm like, Girl, like, pick a lane. Like, you gotta. You

Jeremy Greer:

can't. You can't. And she even says, like, oh, I, you know, I

Jeremy Greer:

have feelings for you, but like, I can't. I can't have these

Jeremy Greer:

feelings for you because you're unstable. And I guess that's

Jeremy Greer:

fine, and I guess I understand it, but like, keep it in your

Jeremy Greer:

pants Alana.

Marie Vigouroux:

Listen, listen, like, this is just so messy,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? Because, like, she, like you said, Now that she rejected

Marie Vigouroux:

him and she can't have him anymore, she wants him again.

Marie Vigouroux:

And I'm telling you, Alana bloom like, this is textbook comphet,

Marie Vigouroux:

go kiss a girl. You'll be fine. Like, it will be okay. Like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

promise you.

Jeremy Greer:

I've seen this phrase comphet toss around, and

Jeremy Greer:

I can kind of pick it up via context, but then it was

Jeremy Greer:

everyone's using it to describe Chappel Roan's VMA performance.

Jeremy Greer:

And I'm, I like it, I'm failing on my context clues to pick up

Jeremy Greer:

with this, I guess. I mean, can you give me just a brief

Jeremy Greer:

definition of it? Because I like educate them, educate the CIS,

Jeremy Greer:

white guy, or anything. I've never had an actual definition.

Marie Vigouroux:

Basically it's a portmanteau word for

Marie Vigouroux:

compulsory heterosexuality. And it's this idea that is

Marie Vigouroux:

particularly affecting queer women, whether they're bisexual

Marie Vigouroux:

or lesbians. And it's basically this idea that like girls are

Marie Vigouroux:

are taught to want to get the attention of boys, but for girls

Marie Vigouroux:

who like girls, when they get the attention of a boy, they're

Marie Vigouroux:

like ew I don't want him anymore, because, you know, the

Marie Vigouroux:

goal is to just get the attention, but once you have it,

Marie Vigouroux:

you don't actually like boys. So you don't want

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, you don't, you don't want to do the

Jeremy Greer:

physical stuff. Okay.

Marie Vigouroux:

Exactly. You're like, I just want you to like

Marie Vigouroux:

me. But now that you like me, I find you disgusting, because I

Marie Vigouroux:

don't actually like boys, right? So that's, that's this idea, and

Marie Vigouroux:

that's why, like, Good Luck Babe, particularly, is, is is

Marie Vigouroux:

hailed as, like a comp, like a song about compulsory

Marie Vigouroux:

heterosexuality, because it's about like a lesbian telling her

Marie Vigouroux:

lesbian lover that, like you can kiss as many boys as you want,

Marie Vigouroux:

you're not going to be a straight woman ever.

Jeremy Greer:

One day. We need to, if Mads Mikkelsen is ever on

Jeremy Greer:

cameo, we need to pay him to do that face to face thing that she

Jeremy Greer:

does and during the during the bridge of that song, because I

Jeremy Greer:

just, every time I see her perform it, I'm like face to

Jeremy Greer:

face. I just love it so much.

Marie Vigouroux:

She's so good. I love this girl so much.

Jeremy Greer:

Alana asked, Will, very specifically, do you feel

Jeremy Greer:

unstable? And will does a thing that he's going to do later with

Jeremy Greer:

another potential romantic partner, where he just kind of

Jeremy Greer:

nods slowly, and she hugs him, and he kind of sinks into this

Jeremy Greer:

hug, and if the camera lingers on his face, I took a screenshot

Jeremy Greer:

of this with my phone, because he just just, I mean, he just

Jeremy Greer:

looks so miserable, like he just looks like, like this physical

Jeremy Greer:

contact is like, almost a lifeline for him, but it's also

Jeremy Greer:

miserable for him, because he realizes, like, as much as this

Jeremy Greer:

physical contact is like surrounding him and helping him,

Jeremy Greer:

it's not the physical contact that he wants, right from Alana,

Jeremy Greer:

he it's a there's a boundary there that he's not crossing, to

Jeremy Greer:

take this back to our theme.

Marie Vigouroux:

And this is, like, this moment really kind of

Marie Vigouroux:

made me realize that nobody has a baseline on will. And what I

Marie Vigouroux:

mean by that is that, like, Alana never spent time with him

Marie Vigouroux:

alone right before the start of this season. Hannibal met him

Marie Vigouroux:

when the season started, and Jack, like, frankly, has just no

Marie Vigouroux:

interest in knowing him right. Like, I think we can say that,

Marie Vigouroux:

and that's fair, and even us as viewers, like we've only known

Marie Vigouroux:

Will Graham since the beginning of this season, so we don't know

Marie Vigouroux:

what he was like before. And the reason this is important is

Marie Vigouroux:

that, like, when people are behaving oddly, it's like it's

Marie Vigouroux:

the people who have known them for a while, like the people who

Marie Vigouroux:

have a baseline on them who are like, something's wrong with

Marie Vigouroux:

you, like you need a brain scan. But here everyone is like,

Marie Vigouroux:

you're unstable. Don't tell me anything is wrong, because I

Marie Vigouroux:

don't give a shit or like, it's all in your head, will and like,

Marie Vigouroux:

Will could potentially be very sick, like I said earlier, and

Marie Vigouroux:

no one would know. No one would know, because nobody had a

Marie Vigouroux:

baseline on him.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it's almost like he was isolated right

Jeremy Greer:

before Jack brought him into this world. And it's kind of

Jeremy Greer:

fascinating that he's he probably isolated himself as for

Jeremy Greer:

a reason, if we, if we talk about him being on the spectrum,

Jeremy Greer:

he probably had feelings like this and pulled away from the

Jeremy Greer:

world specifically to avoid situations like this, and then

Jeremy Greer:

being drawn out, and now he's going through all of this kind

Jeremy Greer:

of mental anguish, and also could be physically reacting to

Jeremy Greer:

something we don't know. Who knows. Get this man a brain

Jeremy Greer:

scan.

Marie Vigouroux:

Get this man a brain scan. Goddamn! Brain scan!

Jeremy Greer:

Will and Hannibal are visiting Abigail having

Jeremy Greer:

heard the news that she's going to write a book with with

Jeremy Greer:

Freddie and trying to convince her that this is an absolutely

Jeremy Greer:

terrible, terrible idea. And it's just, it's just very funny,

Jeremy Greer:

neither one of them are like this idea at all.

Marie Vigouroux:

No, no, no, no, like. That's like, because

Marie Vigouroux:

Abigail tells them that, like, Freddy wanted her to write about

Marie Vigouroux:

will and Hannibal in her book. And I can't tell which one of

Marie Vigouroux:

them hates the idea the most.

Jeremy Greer:

And will, kind of goes on this, like, weird speech

Jeremy Greer:

that ends with, like, you know, all of this will change. Things

Jeremy Greer:

are changing for me too. And I'm like, way to make it about you

Jeremy Greer:

will, like, what are you doing? Like, talk to Abigail, and

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail, like, kicks back at this too, saying just because

Jeremy Greer:

you killed my dad doesn't mean you get to be him, which is a

Jeremy Greer:

line that, like, only a certain amount of people can say to

Jeremy Greer:

somebody, that's a real it's a rare line that you get to it's a

Jeremy Greer:

rare burn. You know what I'm saying, like you got them.

Marie Vigouroux:

Right, right, rare burn.

Jeremy Greer:

And Abigail says, like, I don't need your

Jeremy Greer:

permission to do any of this. And I love Hannibal's response,

Jeremy Greer:

where he says, You don't need our approval, you know, you

Jeremy Greer:

don't need our permission. You don't need our approval. But I

Jeremy Greer:

like to think that that would be important to you. And I really,

Jeremy Greer:

really like that saying, like, you know, we were there to help

Jeremy Greer:

you, like, ostensibly, we have been here to help you. Like, you

Jeremy Greer:

haven't been in the last four episodes. We've been busy, but

Jeremy Greer:

you're still a guest star, and we're here to help you, and it's

Jeremy Greer:

and we hope that that relationship that we've

Jeremy Greer:

established is you know, enough for you to listen to what we

Jeremy Greer:

have to say. And I think layered in this, as Hannibal looks at

Jeremy Greer:

her like very specifically saying like the relationship

Jeremy Greer:

that you and I have established with one another outside that

Jeremy Greer:

anybody else knows which is, which is not good, which is also

Marie Vigouroux:

No, no. The second, the second that Hannibal

Marie Vigouroux:

a little creepy.

Marie Vigouroux:

starts talking, like, starts his double speak with Abigail, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

all like, like, just my heartbeat stops, like, I just, I

Marie Vigouroux:

can't deal with any of this. But what we're seeing here, like

Marie Vigouroux:

this conversation between Hannibal, well, Hannibal and

Marie Vigouroux:

will with Abigail. But particularly Hannibal is

Marie Vigouroux:

actually like a very real debate, like or conversation

Marie Vigouroux:

about autobiography, autobiographical writing. And

Marie Vigouroux:

let's take, I like to take the example of Prince Harry's

Marie Vigouroux:

memoir, just because it was so controversial and polarizing,

Marie Vigouroux:

like some people said, that, like, he should be able to

Marie Vigouroux:

freely write about anything that happened in his life, because it

Marie Vigouroux:

is his life. And then you've got the other side of that coin,

Marie Vigouroux:

where people argued that, like, the people he was writing about,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, hadn't consented to be in a published work and to have

Marie Vigouroux:

their lives exposed in that way. And this is true of any memoir

Marie Vigouroux:

really, like, not just Prince Harry. Like, think if you had to

Marie Vigouroux:

write a memoir like, I'm pretty sure that there are probably

Marie Vigouroux:

some people in there who would be like, maybe not super happy

Marie Vigouroux:

with the stuff that you would have to say.

Jeremy Greer:

Mostly Autumn.

Marie Vigouroux:

But the other argument is that it is your

Marie Vigouroux:

life, and therefore you should be able to write about it

Marie Vigouroux:

however you wish. And that's kind of the conversation that

Marie Vigouroux:

we're seeing between Abigail and her dads like, they're

Marie Vigouroux:

literally, like, stretching each other's boundaries in that

Marie Vigouroux:

sense.

Jeremy Greer:

Love that you're already calling them her dad's

Jeremy Greer:

that's so good.

Marie Vigouroux:

But I mean, that's what they're calling

Marie Vigouroux:

themselves.

Jeremy Greer:

It's absolutely true, yeah

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm using their words.

Jeremy Greer:

I missed the prince, Harry memoir stuff.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, I can, I can only imagine the stuff that he would write

Jeremy Greer:

about people and have people be upset, because that's such a the

Jeremy Greer:

royal family is such an insular organization as a whole, like

Jeremy Greer:

having anything said that's not officially approved to the, you

Jeremy Greer:

know, official channels or whatever, would be vaguely bad.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, it was very bad. Yeah. It was very, very

Marie Vigouroux:

bad.

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail insists that she just wants people to

Jeremy Greer:

know that she she didn't help kill those girls. And Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

kind of walks a little closer to her and is is threatening,

Jeremy Greer:

almost, when he says, like, are you ready for what will come

Jeremy Greer:

through that door when you open it, man, Hannibal is terrified.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's not, it's not vaguely threatening.

Jeremy Greer:

It's just an actual threat, okay.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's just an actual threat. Like, it's a

Marie Vigouroux:

thinly veiled one, but it's a threat, you know, that only

Marie Vigouroux:

Abigail can really understand. But it's, it's a fucking threat,

Marie Vigouroux:

man like, whew.

Jeremy Greer:

And and again, you know, we talk about pushing

Jeremy Greer:

boundaries, right? Like this is we cut from this to someone

Jeremy Greer:

literally opening up a grave. This is something that always

Jeremy Greer:

gets me on a rewatch. I think I've seen this episode probably

Jeremy Greer:

three or four times, and every single time I'm like, Well, this

Jeremy Greer:

is Hannibal digging up Nick to like, put Abigail in her place,

Jeremy Greer:

and it's gonna be revealed. That's absolutely not what is

Jeremy Greer:

not what, what's happening. But every single time it gets me, I

Jeremy Greer:

don't, don't know why.

Marie Vigouroux:

You know, it's funny, because I didn't get it

Marie Vigouroux:

the first time that I watched it. So, like, in the scene where

Marie Vigouroux:

that happens, like, I have trouble understanding Mads, so,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, I didn't quite understand what was going on exactly, but I

Marie Vigouroux:

was like, who knows? Who knows is it will has he understood it?

Marie Vigouroux:

What's going on? So anyway, yeah, there you go.

Jeremy Greer:

We go do some some, some criminal stuff.

Jeremy Greer:

They've identified some of the bodies, some the one of the

Jeremy Greer:

bottom is from 40 years ago, and will thinks that there's going

Jeremy Greer:

to be some sort of connection between the first and the last.

Jeremy Greer:

Jack interrupts, fortunately, we don't, we don't deal with

Jeremy Greer:

science stuff for too long. He brings will and to his office,

Jeremy Greer:

along with Hannibal and Alana, and tells them that Nick's body

Jeremy Greer:

has been found in Minnesota, and Jack has flown the body to the

Jeremy Greer:

morgue, and he wants Abigail to identify him, even though

Jeremy Greer:

they've already got an identification on him. He wants

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail specifically to look at the body to see her reaction.

Jeremy Greer:

And no one in the room agrees with Jack whatsoever.

Marie Vigouroux:

And I have to say here that Jack, Jack has

Marie Vigouroux:

excellent boundaries, because he's like, I know what I'm

Marie Vigouroux:

entitled to do, and I will do it regardless of what anyone tells

Marie Vigouroux:

me. And Hannibal even says, like, that line that I

Marie Vigouroux:

absolutely love. And you can tell that Hannibal is just like,

Marie Vigouroux:

rolling his eyes as he says it. He's like, Jack has the look of

Marie Vigouroux:

a man with no interest in anyone's opinion but his own.

Jeremy Greer:

It's so good. It's so good.

Marie Vigouroux:

I love it.

Jeremy Greer:

And again, you know, you talk about him having

Jeremy Greer:

boundaries, but also, this is, this is him pushing boundaries,

Jeremy Greer:

right? Like, this is him. Like, there's, I don't think that

Jeremy Greer:

there's, I'm pretty sure Abigail is supposed to be 17 in this

Jeremy Greer:

like, I think she's a minor. And, like, having no reasonable

Jeremy Greer:

legal guardian would allow something like this to happen.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, you've already got an identification on the body, my

Jeremy Greer:

daughter, my this girl that who's my responsibility. I'm not

Jeremy Greer:

gonna allow her for you to barrage her with questions while

Jeremy Greer:

standing over the corpse of someone who attacked her.

Jeremy Greer:

There's no way this happens, right? Like this is definitely

Jeremy Greer:

crossing a line, and everybody knows it. And you can tell

Jeremy Greer:

because Alana's body language that she escorts Abigail into

Jeremy Greer:

the morgue where Jack is standing over the body of Nick

Jeremy Greer:

like her body language is like, I fucking hate this, and I hate

Jeremy Greer:

you for making me do this.

Marie Vigouroux:

Right? It's kind of funny. Actually, I

Marie Vigouroux:

never, I always thought that she wasn't a minor specifically

Marie Vigouroux:

because, like, otherwise, she wouldn't have been staying in a

Marie Vigouroux:

in a psychiatric hospital where there would have been other

Marie Vigouroux:

adults. But again, like this is such a like this. This show is

Marie Vigouroux:

so loosey goosey with procedure, that it's very possible.

Jeremy Greer:

And I could be wrong too. Like, it could be one

Jeremy Greer:

of those things where, but like she, she's a schoolgirl, like, I

Jeremy Greer:

guess if we see her, like, recruiting college age student.

Jeremy Greer:

She's probably over 18 or something. And, like, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

but I don't know. I don't, I don't. But again, like, I don't

Jeremy Greer:

think any reasonable person that she had any reasonable fathers

Jeremy Greer:

in her life -

Marie Vigouroux:

She was applying for college, so I don't

Marie Vigouroux:

know about that, how old that would make her, but -

Jeremy Greer:

So I graduated high school when I was 17, but

Jeremy Greer:

that was because my birthday was in November, and so, like, I

Jeremy Greer:

turned 18 that year. Most people, most most kids, are 18

Jeremy Greer:

when they graduate high school and start going to col.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay, so, okay, so she might be, like, just a

Marie Vigouroux:

very young adult.

Jeremy Greer:

Yes, yeah. I think, I think they skewer her

Jeremy Greer:

young on purpose too, like they make her look a lot younger than

Jeremy Greer:

she is. Jack, kind of just barrages her with questions, you

Jeremy Greer:

know, asking her if she had anything to do with it, asking

Jeremy Greer:

her, you know, saying, Oh, he was killed by being gutted with

Jeremy Greer:

a hunter knife. Like, you know, how to do that. Your father, you

Jeremy Greer:

know, taught you how to do that. And Alana tries to stop this,

Jeremy Greer:

but Jack just overrules her, calling her Dr bloom, very

Jeremy Greer:

specifically, and saying, like, you know, this is you're invited

Jeremy Greer:

here, like, I can, I can just kick you out. And then he says

Jeremy Greer:

something really interesting that's easy to look over. I

Jeremy Greer:

think he asked her where she goes when she escapes from the

Jeremy Greer:

hospital. And we know that she's escaped once and went to

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal, but this is a reveal that she's been escaping many

Jeremy Greer:

times, and we don't know what she's doing. She says that she's

Jeremy Greer:

just gotta get away, like she's just got to kind of decompress.

Jeremy Greer:

And he asked her, if you know, do you meet with anybody? Do you

Jeremy Greer:

did you know? Did you know Nick? Did you go meet Nick, or did you

Jeremy Greer:

go find Nick, or do anything with Nick while you were out?

Jeremy Greer:

And she's like, Absolutely not. And she just kind of keeps

Jeremy Greer:

insisting, like, I don't know anything. I know he was trying

Jeremy Greer:

to kill me. And all could think about is that I was going to die

Jeremy Greer:

in that house, after all, and she begins to cry as she

Jeremy Greer:

remembers this attack on her. And it's it's for as much as we

Jeremy Greer:

know that this is wrong or that this is a lie, like she's

Jeremy Greer:

putting on a very, very good performance.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, so she says with a lot of conviction,

Marie Vigouroux:

that she survived, right? And I wanted to note that, because I

Marie Vigouroux:

want to come back to it later. And this is also something that

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal had told her in an earlier episode that, like she

Marie Vigouroux:

did what she had to do in order to survive. Yeah, I'm just gonna

Marie Vigouroux:

leave it at that for now.

Jeremy Greer:

Okay, yeah. Jack says, you know, do you haven't

Jeremy Greer:

seen him since the attack, and she says only in my nightmares.

Marie Vigouroux:

So this moment, this is this is so anyway, in

Marie Vigouroux:

this moment, I realized that Abigail is a very practiced

Marie Vigouroux:

liar, because she knew exactly what she had to say so that

Marie Vigouroux:

nothing that she says was a lie, and yet she still wasn't telling

Marie Vigouroux:

the truth, or the whole truth, and like that is really

Marie Vigouroux:

practiced behavior. And I was like, oh, oh, no.

Jeremy Greer:

She's getting good at this. I wonder what she does

Jeremy Greer:

when she leaves that, when she escapes from the hospital.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, it's not so much just that she's getting

Marie Vigouroux:

good at this is that she had to have been really good at this

Marie Vigouroux:

before. So, like, there were other things that were happening

Marie Vigouroux:

before that made her really practice liar. And, you know,

Marie Vigouroux:

remember how I was, like, you know, I don't buy that. Her dad

Marie Vigouroux:

was really loving and whatnot. Like, I just, yeah, there you

Marie Vigouroux:

go.

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail leaves, and Alana kinda escorts her out.

Jeremy Greer:

But Alana comes back and she yells at Jack, saying that,

Jeremy Greer:

like, Abigail is obviously working very hard to hide

Jeremy Greer:

something, but it isn't the murder of Nick. And he's like,

Jeremy Greer:

why do you why do you think she's telling the truth? And

Jeremy Greer:

Alana says, because if, even if I didn't trust Abigail, like

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal, was there the whole time, any reservations I have

Jeremy Greer:

about Abigail do not extend to Hannibal. And I'm just like, ah.

Jeremy Greer:

And then she says, he has no reason to lie about any of this,

Jeremy Greer:

and I'm screaming on my couch, just literally screaming on my

Jeremy Greer:

couch.

Marie Vigouroux:

To be fair, from her point of view, it's

Marie Vigouroux:

very logical. Like, why would she be like distrusting of

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal? Right? Like she's established her own boundaries

Marie Vigouroux:

in this quest, in this particular moment, right? Like

Marie Vigouroux:

she doesn't fully trust Abigail, but she trusts Hannibal because,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, she's always felt safe around him. So why would she,

Marie Vigouroux:

why? Right?

Jeremy Greer:

Why would she distrust anything about

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal? Right? Like there's no reason to right now, and it's

Jeremy Greer:

just, it's just -

Marie Vigouroux:

For her. We know that she should distrust

Marie Vigouroux:

him.

Jeremy Greer:

It's like they were like, Let's make this show

Jeremy Greer:

as ironic as possible, as much as possible. Like, we just want

Jeremy Greer:

people to literally feast on the irony of everything that happens

Jeremy Greer:

in the show.

Marie Vigouroux:

Feast, indeed.

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal is confronting Abigail, saying,

Unknown:

I think it's because we kind of see Abigail, like, as

Unknown:

kind of in his like, you know, Hannibal way, like, it can be a

Unknown:

comfort to see the corpse of a monster, like, to see it kind of

Unknown:

splayed in front of you, to know it's not going to attack you

Unknown:

you know, this idea of like, she projects her victimhood, or

Unknown:

again. And she says he wasn't the monster, but sometimes I

Unknown:

feel like one. And he asked her, is that why you uncovered the

Unknown:

body? And I think it's a perfectly reasonable conclusion

Unknown:

to come to that, like, as you're watching the show, for Hannibal

Unknown:

to have dug up the body specifically to like, put

Unknown:

Abigail in a position of defense, to like, get her to not

Unknown:

write this memoir, or to get her under back under his control or

Unknown:

whatever. But no, we find out it's exactly the opposite, like

Unknown:

she literally dug up the body, left it for the FBI to found.

Unknown:

And she did this because she wanted to control what comes

Unknown:

through the door to she says back to Hannibal, like no longer

Unknown:

does she have to really worry about them finding the body they

Unknown:

already have, like she's and she's already survived Jack

Unknown:

Crawford's questioning, like she's past this point, and it's

Unknown:

so this is such a twist. Like, I just every single time it gets

Unknown:

me, and I don't, I don't know why.

Unknown:

something like, I think Alana said that in one of the earlier

Unknown:

episodes. And I think that, like we as the audience do see her,

Unknown:

like, as a victim, you know, like she was manipulated by her

Unknown:

dad, she was manipulated by Hannibal. She was, she is being

Unknown:

manipulated by basically everyone around her, by Freddie

Unknown:

Lowndes, and here, like she's doing this one thing that

Unknown:

really, like gives her the upper hand, and it feels really

Unknown:

different from everything that we had seen her do before. Like,

Unknown:

she was always on the defensive, whereas here she's on the

Unknown:

offensive.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's important to

Jeremy Greer:

mention too, that, like, you can be a victim as well as a

Jeremy Greer:

perpetrator at the same time, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Like, you know, it doesn't - victimhood doesn't

Marie Vigouroux:

oh yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

necessarily excuse behavior. Sometimes it can just explain

Marie Vigouroux:

it. And I think it's perfectly reasonable to empathize and feel

Marie Vigouroux:

sorry for what she's gone through, and then to also

Marie Vigouroux:

realize, like, oh, this person that she is becoming, or has

Marie Vigouroux:

become, is very scary. And so, yeah, it's it can be a little

Marie Vigouroux:

terrifying. Hannibal says You betrayed my trust in such a way

Marie Vigouroux:

that made me want to go hide behind my couch as I was

Marie Vigouroux:

watching the show.

Marie Vigouroux:

I know I was like oh my God if Hannibal was

Marie Vigouroux:

talking to me - but again, she doesn't know yet the extent of

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal's like awfulness, right? And she is really testing

Marie Vigouroux:

his boundaries here and seeing what he did to Franklin and

Marie Vigouroux:

Tobias in the last episode, I'm just like, don't, don't betray

Marie Vigouroux:

his trust. Because he says, like, I need to trust you,

Marie Vigouroux:

Abigail, what if I can't?

Jeremy Greer:

And I just knowing that he's trying to set himself

Jeremy Greer:

up as her father and doing this, I need to be able to trust you,

Jeremy Greer:

what if I can't kind of vague, threatening thing, and knowing

Jeremy Greer:

how much that she's already relying on him for, for comfort

Jeremy Greer:

and for mentorship and for, you know, safety, terrifying,

Jeremy Greer:

absolutely terrifying. I'm not sure will would be any better in

Jeremy Greer:

his current condition, but Hannibal is arguably worse, is

Jeremy Greer:

so much superior, yeah?

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, especially like with the twist

Marie Vigouroux:

of the totem killer, right? Like you're like, oh, oh no. We'll

Marie Vigouroux:

come back to that.

Jeremy Greer:

So we go back to the lab. They're doing police

Jeremy Greer:

stuff. They figure out some stuff, and it leads them to the

Jeremy Greer:

house of an old man who was the totem pole killer. This is

Jeremy Greer:

legendary actor, Lance, Lance Erickson. Hendrickson, excuse

Jeremy Greer:

me, who has been in everything and is just amazing. I want to

Jeremy Greer:

specifically call out like Bryan Fuller, apparently created this

Jeremy Greer:

character as a callback to a character that he plays, that

Jeremy Greer:

Lance Hendrickson plays in Millennium, which is a show from

Jeremy Greer:

Chris Carter, and also he shows up as that character from

Jeremy Greer:

Millennium and show X Files, which, of course, you have seen

Jeremy Greer:

multiple times, and I am currently, we're doing a podcast

Jeremy Greer:

about just love the connections. Just absolutely, like, I think I

Jeremy Greer:

told you last night, like, everybody talks about

Jeremy Greer:

Superwholock but like, really, it's Hannibal, X Files,

Jeremy Greer:

Supernatural. Like, those are the three that really should be

Jeremy Greer:

linked.

Marie Vigouroux:

Superhanifiles.

Jeremy Greer:

Superhanifiles, there we go.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, I love this because, like, it's so

Marie Vigouroux:

funny, because I saw his face, and I was like, Where do I know

Marie Vigouroux:

this actor from? And when you told me this, I was like, oh,

Marie Vigouroux:

it's that episode. Oh, okay, okay, cool, cool, cool.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, like he says specifically, like, I could

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it's and, I mean, also, like, Terminator,

Jeremy Greer:

right? Like, he's in a bunch of different movies and stuff. So

Jeremy Greer:

here, he is, he's packed up his his entire house, he can see,

Jeremy Greer:

like the boxes and everything, and he's basically just waiting

Jeremy Greer:

with the door open for somebody to show up and catch him, and as

Jeremy Greer:

wave at a lady and smile, chew the fat with her in church

Jeremy Greer:

as will and Jack and no other police officers for some reason

Jeremy Greer:

come in. I don't, it doesn't matter, but it's just so funny,

Jeremy Greer:

the way that their place so loosey goosey with this stuff

Jeremy Greer:

like Will is, Will is obviously sick and he's a brain scan, but

Jeremy Greer:

like, here's a gun, come with me to the suspect's house.

Jeremy Greer:

Whatever. This guy says that he would have, he had faith that

Jeremy Greer:

they would find me, because he let them. Just says, I don't

Jeremy Greer:

have the fight anymore. And he says that he he basically killed

Jeremy Greer:

all of these people because he said he has, I had every reason

Jeremy Greer:

to kill them. They just had no reason to die. And he kind of

Jeremy Greer:

brags about just being this, like invisible killer, about

Jeremy Greer:

being able to blend into the community and kill without

Jeremy Greer:

anybody knowing, and then even, like, go to their funerals afterwards.

Jeremy Greer:

knowing that I killed her husband and like that is

Jeremy Greer:

literally Hannibal, right? Like in the episode where Abigail

Jeremy Greer:

kills Nick, he like, ends up like holding the grieving mother

Jeremy Greer:

of Abigail's best friend, knowing that he's the one who

Jeremy Greer:

killed his daughter. And again, I don't like these parallels.

Jeremy Greer:

It's even worse when you when you do a little

Jeremy Greer:

research and realize this was going to be a reoccurring

Jeremy Greer:

character at one point, really. And Bryan fuller specifically

Jeremy Greer:

wanted this character to be like somewhat of a father figure to

Jeremy Greer:

will and for that relationship to build in some sort of way.

Jeremy Greer:

And obviously it didn't happen. I guess not obviously to you.

Jeremy Greer:

But no, it does not happen. He doesn't show up again. But I can

Jeremy Greer:

imagine all sorts of fucked up things coming from that too. So

Jeremy Greer:

kind of, kind of glad we avoid that. He also says that, like,

Jeremy Greer:

you know, he's, he's not rich, so, like, he thinks that prison

Jeremy Greer:

will be a luxury compared to the retirement that he would get.

Jeremy Greer:

And he describes, you know, how popular he will be for having

Jeremy Greer:

been this, like, kind of famed killer in prison, which is

Jeremy Greer:

something that, like, I don't know that the books necessarily

Jeremy Greer:

get into, they get into a little bit about how, like, a lot of

Jeremy Greer:

these killers, like, crave the fame and the attention that they

Jeremy Greer:

get after the fact. And he says that he's securing his legacy.

Jeremy Greer:

And now it's time for a little bit of a twist. We didn't really

Jeremy Greer:

talk about all of the sciency stuff that's happening, but

Jeremy Greer:

essentially, the body at the top of the totem pole was the son of

Jeremy Greer:

the guy at the bottom of the totem pole. And when they

Jeremy Greer:

tracked it down, they realized, like, oh, wait, they're not

Jeremy Greer:

actually biologically related. And it turns out, this dude was

Jeremy Greer:

in love with the wife and had an affair with her before he killed

Jeremy Greer:

her, but he loved her too much to put her in the totem pole,

Jeremy Greer:

but assumed that the son was the first guy's son, and says that

Jeremy Greer:

he shouldn't exist, not knowing that it was his own son. And

Jeremy Greer:

will takes great glee in explaining this to him, that he

Jeremy Greer:

killed his own legacy. You didn't secure your legacy. You

Jeremy Greer:

murdered it. Will is very He's like, he's like, this, finally,

Jeremy Greer:

a good day, like I got a W in the corner. In the corner. This

Jeremy Greer:

has been a real shit week.

Marie Vigouroux:

And it's, it's so okay. So I've been talking

Marie Vigouroux:

about, like, the parallels between this killer and Hannibal

Marie Vigouroux:

and like, again, this idea that, like, he killed his own legacy,

Marie Vigouroux:

his own child. If Hannibal is positioning himself as Abigail's

Marie Vigouroux:

Dad, I don't trust this show.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, the show, especially because, like, we go

Jeremy Greer:

right into will, dreaming of Abigail right like we go from

Jeremy Greer:

you murdered your legacy, to will, tossing and turning,

Jeremy Greer:

sweating in bed. He sees Nick's dead body sit up on the table.

Jeremy Greer:

He sees himself stabbing Nick in the gut, and then all of a

Jeremy Greer:

sudden, Nick turns into Abigail, and now Abigail is stabbing him

Jeremy Greer:

in the gut, and will wakes up, and he's standing over Nick's

Jeremy Greer:

body at the morgue, and he rushes to Hannibal's office,

Jeremy Greer:

where Hannibal is just like sketching some stuff, like

Jeremy Greer:

sketching a bridge, like you do. He's just chilling out. And he

Jeremy Greer:

immediately tells Hannibal, Abigail killed Nick. And I think

Jeremy Greer:

one of the most shocking moments of the show, Hannibal just says,

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, I know, yep. And you could tell will is just like,

Jeremy Greer:

motherfucker. I knew you knew. I didn't want you to know, but I'm

Jeremy Greer:

so glad you told like he's the amount of emotions that this man

Jeremy Greer:

runs through, and just like a brief second, all show on his

Jeremy Greer:

face. We don't talk enough, I don't think we mentioned, is it

Jeremy Greer:

Hugh Dancy? Hugh Darcy?Jjust the acting ability, the sheer acting

Jeremy Greer:

ability that he's, he's doing with will, I think this moment

Jeremy Greer:

in particular really got me of just he's, he's obviously like

Jeremy Greer:

not feeling well. He's been shook to his core because he

Jeremy Greer:

didn't believe that Abigail was responsible for really anything,

Jeremy Greer:

and now he's finding out. He kind of feels like he knows

Jeremy Greer:

this, and also his one of his best friends, right? His best

Jeremy Greer:

friend and confidant is in on it was also hiding this from him.

Jeremy Greer:

So like my dad and my daughter, my co-dad and my daughter were

Jeremy Greer:

hiding stuff from me, and it's just, it's just a moment. And

Jeremy Greer:

like, he goes through all of the emotions here

Marie Vigouroux:

Because I think he asks him, like, how did you

Marie Vigouroux:

know? And and Hannibal says, I helped her dispose of the body.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's like, Oh, my God, what are you doing? And it's, it's, it's

Marie Vigouroux:

like, kind of textbook like blackmail, I guess, or abuse, or

Marie Vigouroux:

whatever, however you want to call it, of like, getting

Marie Vigouroux:

somebody in on the secret so that now they're like, you know,

Marie Vigouroux:

they can't deny that they knew, right? So then they're like, a

Marie Vigouroux:

part of the of the conspiracy as well. And I just, I think what

Marie Vigouroux:

shocked me the most, though, in this exchange is when will goes,

Marie Vigouroux:

evidently not well enough. Like that shook me because, like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

was like, oh, okay, so it's not that he's mad like that

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal, it basically, sorry. It's like, what he's mad about

Marie Vigouroux:

here is that Hannibal didn't use his serial killer skills well

Marie Vigouroux:

enough. And I just feel like the Overton window has dramatically

Marie Vigouroux:

shifted here for will. I'm just like, What is going on? Get this

Marie Vigouroux:

man a brain scan.

Jeremy Greer:

I also want to talk a little bit about this

Jeremy Greer:

leap that will has made. Because obviously, will Will's, you

Jeremy Greer:

know, what Hannibal refers to as an empathy disorder, or what

Jeremy Greer:

Jack refers to as Will's abilities are this, this idea

Jeremy Greer:

that he can put himself in someone's point of view so well

Jeremy Greer:

that he can, kind of, he can pull information from that in

Jeremy Greer:

order to and then use that alongside he very he always

Jeremy Greer:

insists, alongside the evidence in front of him, right like he

Jeremy Greer:

always insists, like, it's not just me making up stuff, it's

Jeremy Greer:

the evidence telling me things to come to these conclusions and

Jeremy Greer:

then to work backwards from there to be able to prove that

Jeremy Greer:

that he was right here we see this, like he almost just has a

Jeremy Greer:

vision, right? Like, this is, this is, and I'm curious how

Jeremy Greer:

this, how this takes you, because it feels vaguely like,

Jeremy Greer:

not like supernatural, but like it's such a huge leap. And then

Jeremy Greer:

he believes it. And then I feel like, even though there's not

Jeremy Greer:

like physical evidence f this yet, when he goes to Hannibal,

Jeremy Greer:

and Hannibal confirms it, he's like, fuck. Like, it's almost

Jeremy Greer:

like this, this thing that I have, this ability that I have,

Jeremy Greer:

is almost out of my control at this point, where I'm literally

Jeremy Greer:

dream, walking, solving crimes. Like, that's fucking crazy,

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean, again, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

it's it until we find out results of that brain scan?

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, it's, it's really hard to tell, but like, is the because

Marie Vigouroux:

it seems like that empathy disorder, quote, unquote, was,

Marie Vigouroux:

was there before the season, right? So, like, it's something

Marie Vigouroux:

that's, like, well documented. So I'm, like, I don't know.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, again, it depends. It depends on so many things, but

Marie Vigouroux:

it's like, is it part of like, the sickness? Is it like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

don't know. I don't know, but it feels like, right now, like he

Marie Vigouroux:

just needs a real doctor.

Jeremy Greer:

He just needs somebody to help, an actual

Jeremy Greer:

person that wants him to be better. Will says that he hasn't

Jeremy Greer:

told Jack, mostly because he did not want it to be true. You have

Jeremy Greer:

a note here, and me and autumn, like, rewrote this last night.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, yeah, Hannibal makes a decision here, right? Like,

Jeremy Greer:

because he looks down at his pencil sharpening scalpel and,

Jeremy Greer:

like, moves it like an inch to the left, like, he makes a

Jeremy Greer:

decision. Of, like, I I could do. I could deal with this two

Jeremy Greer:

ways. Like, this is, it's almost video gaming in the way that,

Jeremy Greer:

like, you know, press, press, press A to spare will press B to

Jeremy Greer:

kill Will. It's, it's so good, like, it's just a tiny little

Jeremy Greer:

moment too, and -

Marie Vigouroux:

but it holds so much tension, right? Because,

Marie Vigouroux:

you know what he's capable of, and, like, he could make it

Marie Vigouroux:

appear so that will, like, took his own life, right? I think it

Marie Vigouroux:

would be like, I think nobody would question that, right? And

Marie Vigouroux:

so, yeah, and the fact that he chooses to spare him, I think,

Marie Vigouroux:

is, is telling, of, like, how much attachment he has to him,

Marie Vigouroux:

because last episode, he didn't really care, or, no, he cared

Marie Vigouroux:

like, still sent him into danger. And this time he's like,

Marie Vigouroux:

No, you know what? I'm keeping this one I'm keeping this stray.

Jeremy Greer:

I think he you know, it's that moment where the

Jeremy Greer:

stray becomes your pet, right? Not to like diminish this

Jeremy Greer:

relationship, because I think even Hannibal is having a hard

Jeremy Greer:

time. But it's that moment where you connect with something. So

Jeremy Greer:

last episode, leading up to last episode, he was almost kind of

Jeremy Greer:

toying with will, to see what will would do, and then putting

Jeremy Greer:

will in harm's way with Tobias, and then having will come back

Jeremy Greer:

whole, and then sharing that moment together, was the moment

Jeremy Greer:

he was like, actually, now this is something I want to protect.

Jeremy Greer:

And this was exactly this was him fighting with his instincts

Jeremy Greer:

like and his instincts tell him, his instincts he's a killer, and

Jeremy Greer:

the reason that he hasn't been caught is probably because he's

Jeremy Greer:

been absolutely ruthless with having personal connections. And

Jeremy Greer:

so his instinct is to pick up that scalpel and to kill will

Jeremy Greer:

immediately, because he knows something that can damage him.

Jeremy Greer:

But he puts that aside to for that relationship, specifically

Jeremy Greer:

with will. And then he kind of underlines this a lot. He goes

Jeremy Greer:

over and he like places his hand on will shoulder. He says, you

Jeremy Greer:

know, he talks about how they're Abigail's father's now, did I

Jeremy Greer:

miss a line somewhere? There's something else in here.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's because So -

Jeremy Greer:

yeah. So this is what I wanted to bring up,

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal. Hannibal says everything you know about that

Jeremy Greer:

night is true, except for the end. And he specifically hid it

Jeremy Greer:

because he knew what Jack would do to Abigail. And Will says,

Jeremy Greer:

like, this isn't our place to decide. And Hannibal is like,

Jeremy Greer:

no, but it is, if not, if it's not ours, who? Like, she doesn't

Jeremy Greer:

have anybody we are her fathers now. And then very specifically

Jeremy Greer:

tells will, you'll murder Abigail's future by going to

Jeremy Greer:

jack. And that use of murder, again, he used it earlier with

Jeremy Greer:

will, like bringing Will's attention to the idea that will

Jeremy Greer:

kind of enjoyed killing Garrett Jacob Hobbs maybe has a lot of

Jeremy Greer:

conflicted emotions about killing Garrett Jacob Hobbs

Jeremy Greer:

about potentially being a murderer, even though he didn't,

Jeremy Greer:

even know it was, quote, unquote justified. Murdering someone has

Jeremy Greer:

obviously affected will, and he's using that to manipulate

Jeremy Greer:

will and to hiding this from them. Hide this from Jack.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, because, like, if he murders her future,

Marie Vigouroux:

then he might as well be murdering her, right? And so,

Marie Vigouroux:

and we know that will is so attached to Abigail that he

Marie Vigouroux:

will, like, he doesn't want to do anything that's going to harm

Marie Vigouroux:

her. And we see that actually in the next line where, you know,

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal asks, like, do I need to call my lawyer? Which, I

Marie Vigouroux:

don't know what I was expecting, but somehow, like, I didn't

Marie Vigouroux:

expect, I don't know why, but I was like, Would you really be

Marie Vigouroux:

fighting that in court? Like, I don't really believe that, but

Marie Vigouroux:

like, I think, I think maybe it's just like, you know, the

Marie Vigouroux:

set dressing that Hannibal puts on to make Will believe that

Marie Vigouroux:

this is a decision that he has made, rather than one that he is

Marie Vigouroux:

being coerced into.

Jeremy Greer:

It's the human suit, right? Like, it's because

Jeremy Greer:

we know that he would probably just disappear into the wind. He

Jeremy Greer:

wouldn't call a lawyer and, like, fight in court, but like,

Jeremy Greer:

the human suit says, Oh, I would. I would need to protect

Jeremy Greer:

myself against legal, criminal action.

Marie Vigouroux:

Exactly. And it's, I think that that's

Marie Vigouroux:

because I have a line here that says, I'm amazed at the tension

Marie Vigouroux:

in this scene. So good. And I think that's what it is, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Because it's, it's not really the lines necessarily. It's the

Marie Vigouroux:

fact that, like, we know that Hannibal wouldn't be fighting

Marie Vigouroux:

this in court. We know that he's coercing will. We know all of

Marie Vigouroux:

his real and true intentions. And will doesn't, and that is

Marie Vigouroux:

the tension. It's that will doesn't know how much danger

Marie Vigouroux:

he's actually in. And I feel like that's a recurring thing

Marie Vigouroux:

for will. Poor Will.

Jeremy Greer:

Poor will, as the name of the story. Hannibal

Marie Vigouroux:

What? What?! WHAT???

Marie Vigouroux:

finished this by saying, like, we can tell no one. And then

Marie Vigouroux:

says, and this time in time, this will be the only story any

Jeremy Greer:

So for the book readers out there who think I

Jeremy Greer:

of us cares to tell. And I just want all of the book readers out

Jeremy Greer:

there to remember the end of the book Hannibal, which the series

Jeremy Greer:

is not based on, but, you know, maybe, maybe has some similarities.

Jeremy Greer:

don't see this, I do. It's there. Also want to call

Jeremy Greer:

attention to when Hannibal asked if he needs to call his lawyer,

Jeremy Greer:

will just kind of slowly shakes his head no. And I mentioned

Jeremy Greer:

this earlier, when in the conversation with Alana, where

Jeremy Greer:

she was like, or do you feel unstable? And he like,

Jeremy Greer:

reluctantly shakes his head yes, not to said yes. Like, it's

Jeremy Greer:

very, very similar. And the way that he just, like, reluctantly

Jeremy Greer:

responds, but kind of wants to, because he feels a connection

Jeremy Greer:

with the person that's asking. So he wants to be honest again,

Jeremy Greer:

where's Beverly? Please. Beverly would be so much better at all

Jeremy Greer:

of this.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, please take him to get a brain scan?

Jeremy Greer:

What a powerful scene that just, I mean, just

Jeremy Greer:

underlines so much about why I love and hate this show. Because

Jeremy Greer:

it's, it's so delicious, like, it's just and delicious is the

Jeremy Greer:

word I keep coming back to that it's just you just, you just

Jeremy Greer:

feast upon all of this, like tension and irony and drama. And

Jeremy Greer:

I just, I love it so much.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, I just love how understated it is.

Marie Vigouroux:

Because really, like, it's, it's two men in a room, in a

Marie Vigouroux:

beautiful room, right? Like, that's what it is. And and yet,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, this is the like, there's a totem pole of human parts that

Marie Vigouroux:

we barely spend a few minutes talking about. And here we are

Marie Vigouroux:

spending like, minutes and minutes talking about, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

these two men in a room, right? And I just think that that's,

Marie Vigouroux:

that's the power of Hannibal. It's that, like, yes, some of it

Marie Vigouroux:

is grotesque and, like, unforgettable visually, but what

Marie Vigouroux:

really hits like the emotional parts of us is the relationships

Marie Vigouroux:

between these characters.

Jeremy Greer:

Absolutely, and that's why I keep coming back to

Jeremy Greer:

like, when you ask people about Hannibal, they don't tell you

Jeremy Greer:

about this episode unless they've truly been Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

pilled, like most people when they watch Hannibal, nobody,

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal, they'll tell you about the totem pole or the angel

Jeremy Greer:

wings or whatever, but like, it's, that's because that's

Jeremy Greer:

what's that's what sticks in your brain. And then you watch

Jeremy Greer:

the show, and you're like, oh, that's nothing about that at all

Jeremy Greer:

really matters. So, um, later, Hannibal is serving dinner to

Jeremy Greer:

Freddie, Abigail and will.

Marie Vigouroux:

But I have to say sorry before you start, I

Marie Vigouroux:

have to say that this is my favorite scene of the episode.

Jeremy Greer:

Oh yeah, just right off the top. We're getting

Jeremy Greer:

into it. Okay, hello, yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh yeah. I'm gonna tell you, like, right

Marie Vigouroux:

there.

Jeremy Greer:

So that sets the stage like we're and Hannibal is

Jeremy Greer:

bringing out a plate for Freddie, who, turns out, is

Jeremy Greer:

vegetarian, and he just, I think Hannibal says something like, I

Jeremy Greer:

had no idea. I would have never thought.

Marie Vigouroux:

So. Is it bad that I was like, damn it.

Jeremy Greer:

A little, yeah, a little. You did say earlier in

Jeremy Greer:

this episode that you could excuse cannibalism. I just want

Jeremy Greer:

you to know that.

Marie Vigouroux:

I can, I can, in this context I can.

Jeremy Greer:

And now you're like, Oh, dang, he didn't get to

Jeremy Greer:

feed human meat to somebody

Marie Vigouroux:

I know. I'm like, this is like, truly, is

Marie Vigouroux:

this what it means to be Hannibal pilled?

Jeremy Greer:

100% 100%

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay, officially, it's official.

Jeremy Greer:

This is a, this is a tense dinner as well, because

Jeremy Greer:

will and Freddie are kind of sparring over verbally sparring

Jeremy Greer:

over what the truth is and how to use it. And Freddie says

Jeremy Greer:

that, you know, she wants to tell Abigail's version of the

Jeremy Greer:

truth. And you know, Abigail says, like, I have no secrets to

Jeremy Greer:

hide. And Freddie's like, no, everybody's got secrets. And

Jeremy Greer:

during this conversation, I think Hannibal chimes into the

Jeremy Greer:

end here that everybody just wants to protect Abigail.

Jeremy Greer:

Several things happen in this conversation. The first that is,

Jeremy Greer:

as will is talking to Freddie, he's doing this thing that

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal does, and it's like using double speak to talk to

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail. And Abigail realizes that will knows her secrets, and

Jeremy Greer:

then, and then Abigail takes a bite. Of her whatever meal this

Jeremy Greer:

is. I forget the name of it.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's actually I found it because I was like,

Marie Vigouroux:

that looks delicious. It's roasted tenderloin with

Marie Vigouroux:

pomegranate blood splatter.

Jeremy Greer:

Yes, thank you. She takes a plate, she takes a

Jeremy Greer:

little bite of her tenderloin, and her eyes just flash over to

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal in a moment that I am just fascinated with. I love

Jeremy Greer:

this so much.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay, didn't I say that she would recognize the

Marie Vigouroux:

taste of human flesh? That was one of the first things that I

Marie Vigouroux:

said when I saw Hannibal cooking for her. I was like, this girl

Marie Vigouroux:

has been fed human meat. She knows, she knows what it tastes

Marie Vigouroux:

like and there we go, and there we go. And I just felt so

Marie Vigouroux:

vindicated. I think I screamed. I was like, yes!

Jeremy Greer:

So, I asked you this at the top of the episode,

Jeremy Greer:

does it does it feel good to be right? Does it feel good?

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, it feels so good. That felt so good. Also, I

Marie Vigouroux:

just want to highlight that this is the first time that will

Marie Vigouroux:

comes to one of Hannibal's dinner parties.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it's the first time he said at the table,

Jeremy Greer:

right? Like we've seen him eat but, this is the first time that

Jeremy Greer:

he's actually sat down at the table.

Marie Vigouroux:

I feel like this is also like, I don't know,

Marie Vigouroux:

I don't know if, but it kind of shows that, like, Will has like,

Marie Vigouroux:

because it was last episode or the episode before where he,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, refuses to go to the two episodes ago where he refuses to

Marie Vigouroux:

sit at the table. He's like, no, no, take this bottle of wine and

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm gonna go and I gonna go and smile at you awkwardly. And

Marie Vigouroux:

whereas here, he's like, accepting this probably because

Marie Vigouroux:

now they're partners in crime, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Absolutely. Yeah. Also, I just want to note I had

Jeremy Greer:

to go. I just put the episode on so I could find this out. This

Jeremy Greer:

is also the first time that he's dressed appropriately for

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal's office, like he's got a button up shirt, he's got like

Jeremy Greer:

an actual sport coat on, like it's, he's not in his normal,

Jeremy Greer:

like, outer wear or anything. So again, I just think that's kind

Jeremy Greer:

of shows a conformity, almost like now that he's now that he's

Jeremy Greer:

embraced Hannibal, and he knows this, like he's kind of not

Jeremy Greer:

necessarily becoming him, but like, you know, losing some of

Jeremy Greer:

himself in this process, which is probably exactly what

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal wants.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, that phrasing, Jeremy.

Jeremy Greer:

Sorry. Sorry, sorry.

Marie Vigouroux:

You're right. You're absolutely right. I think

Marie Vigouroux:

that's exactly what's going on. And he's like, yeah, like you

Marie Vigouroux:

said, losing parts of himself and embracing more and more of

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal's world. Little does he know what Hannibal's world

Marie Vigouroux:

actually means?

Jeremy Greer:

And you know, let's take this back to the

Jeremy Greer:

boundary crossing, right? Like, this is, this is him crossing

Jeremy Greer:

boundaries that he wouldn't normally having, you know, be

Jeremy Greer:

associated with the FBI, not necessarily an agent, but like,

Jeremy Greer:

he wouldn't normally do this kind of thing. Like Hannibal has

Jeremy Greer:

pushed him to do this.

Marie Vigouroux:

And he wouldn't also, like, as silly as it

Marie Vigouroux:

sounds, but he wouldn't sit at a fancy dinner party, like, for

Marie Vigouroux:

any reason, right? Like, he's made that pretty clear. And so

Marie Vigouroux:

already, like, this is being pushed, this is being challenged

Marie Vigouroux:

for him in so many ways, right? And Freddie

Jeremy Greer:

And Freddie has the last line here, which is

Jeremy Greer:

great, where she says, this is a - The salad is amazing. It's a

Jeremy Greer:

shame to ruin it with all of that meat. And I like that

Jeremy Greer:

phrase. I like this phrase a lot because obviously, like, the

Jeremy Greer:

meat is the - to her, it takes away from the salad to the

Jeremy Greer:

table. It can mean several different things, right? Like,

Jeremy Greer:

it's for Abigail and Hannibal we know. Like, it's a shame to ruin

Jeremy Greer:

it with all that meat. Like, it's a shame to have all of

Jeremy Greer:

these bodies on the table, like it's a shame to have all of this

Jeremy Greer:

baggage and then to will. It's like it's a literal body that

Jeremy Greer:

they're hiding. And it's just, again, I could be reading in too

Jeremy Greer:

much to this one little sentence, but it just, it just

Jeremy Greer:

feels so heavy. It feels so heavy with like metaphor that I

Jeremy Greer:

just, I have to talk about it.

Marie Vigouroux:

I don't think you're reading too much into it

Marie Vigouroux:

at all. I think that this show is exactly the kind of show that

Marie Vigouroux:

would put this little innocuous line and expect us to dig into

Marie Vigouroux:

it.

Jeremy Greer:

We jump ahead of time. Abigail and Hannibal are

Jeremy Greer:

washing dishes, and Abigail says, Will knows. And Hannibal's

Jeremy Greer:

like, yes, he knows, but it's okay. He's lied to Jack Crawford

Jeremy Greer:

about you, just as he's lied to himself. And we see her start to

Jeremy Greer:

have this kind of mental dam break as she starts feeling

Jeremy Greer:

stuff. And Hannibal walks over, he can sense this, and says,

Jeremy Greer:

you're free. No one will know the truth that you're trying to

Jeremy Greer:

avoid, the one you cannot admit, even to yourself. And her whole

Jeremy Greer:

face and body almost collapsed as she confesses, I helped him

Jeremy Greer:

and Hannibal. Hannibal, evil, evil. Hannibal says, I can't

Jeremy Greer:

hear you, and so she has to, like, gird herself and say it

Jeremy Greer:

louder. And it turns out that she was the one, after all, who

Jeremy Greer:

found these girls for her father, who befriended them and

Jeremy Greer:

found out where they lived and led him to them to kill them.

Jeremy Greer:

And this was, I think, a question throughout the last

Jeremy Greer:

nine episodes, and it's obviously been confirmed here

Jeremy Greer:

that she was a part. She knew what was happening the whole

Jeremy Greer:

time. And. Uh, which, again, going back to like, like, if

Jeremy Greer:

she's probably doing this over a year, so as a as a minor, even

Jeremy Greer:

if she's not necessarily a minor. Now, child abuse, very

Jeremy Greer:

minimum, right? Like, oh, awful, awful, awful, and probably

Jeremy Greer:

shouldn't be held responsible for that. I think there's

Jeremy Greer:

probably, you know, there's a lot of stuff, if you applied

Jeremy Greer:

real world rules to this, but just from our perspective on the

Jeremy Greer:

show, like it's, it's a confession, and it almost brings

Jeremy Greer:

her and Hannibal closer, which is just fucking terrifying,

Jeremy Greer:

right? Yeah, um.

Jeremy Greer:

I love that pregnant pause.

Marie Vigouroux:

Because, I think because, like, I wanted to

Marie Vigouroux:

get my thoughts down for this, because I didn't want to, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

ramble about it too much, and I think I rewrote it like three or

Marie Vigouroux:

four times yesterday, but like, she says that she couldn't say

Marie Vigouroux:

no to her dad because she knew that it was them or her, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

And I this is where I kind of want to come back to this idea

Marie Vigouroux:

of surviving here, because I think that it's very important

Marie Vigouroux:

Abigail did really, really horrible things in order to

Marie Vigouroux:

survive. I talked, I think a few like the episode where they go

Marie Vigouroux:

back to her house about how I'm pretty sure that she had to do,

Marie Vigouroux:

she had to learn to survive in that house. And I cannot believe

Marie Vigouroux:

how right I was without that. But then again, like, I think

Marie Vigouroux:

that's why, like, I think I always sensed that this was the

Marie Vigouroux:

truth, but I just didn't want to kind of go there. I was like,

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, they're not gonna go there are they. But of course, of

Marie Vigouroux:

course, this is this kind of show, right? So I wasn't, I

Marie Vigouroux:

guess I wasn't really surprised to find out that she helped her

Marie Vigouroux:

dad. I think maybe, like, Will. I just didn't really want to see

Marie Vigouroux:

it. And I was also really, really mad that Jack was right

Marie Vigouroux:

all along. Like, like, legit. I think I was more mad that Jack

Marie Vigouroux:

was right than, like, sad to find out that Abigail did those

Marie Vigouroux:

things. Because I was like, ah, yeah, that tracks for Abigail,

Marie Vigouroux:

actually.

Jeremy Greer:

It's um, like, for all of Jack's manipulations and

Jeremy Greer:

for all of Jack's borderline abuse of will, and like the

Jeremy Greer:

people around him and the things that he put his his students in

Jeremy Greer:

right like when we talk about Miriam, he's still a good cop,

Jeremy Greer:

so like it that's proven over and over again, like last

Jeremy Greer:

episode, when he walked into Hannibal's office after in the

Jeremy Greer:

aftermath of Tobias and Tobias - the Tobias attack

Marie Vigouroux:

and Franklin

Jeremy Greer:

Franklin. Thank you. I was thinking Francine on

Jeremy Greer:

the brain because hurricane Francine just happened. I was

Jeremy Greer:

like, of course, that's not right.

Marie Vigouroux:

That's, that's his drag name.

Jeremy Greer:

That's his drag name, absolutely. He even said,

Jeremy Greer:

like, something smells differently here. Like, this

Jeremy Greer:

doesn't feel simple to me. And it's, it's, it's just kind of

Jeremy Greer:

obnoxious that he's good at his job, while also being like this,

Jeremy Greer:

this bad. And to kind of finish this scene, she begins to cry.

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal comforts her like she literally cries in his arms. And

Jeremy Greer:

he like whispers, like I wondered when you would tell me.

Jeremy Greer:

And she says that I'm a monster. And he says, No, I know what

Jeremy Greer:

monsters are, will and I are going to protect you. It's

Jeremy Greer:

awful. It's so terrifying that he would do this. It's so scary

Jeremy Greer:

like that, you would have this really impressionable woman who

Jeremy Greer:

has been through literal abuse and who has had to live with

Jeremy Greer:

what she has done and what her father has done, and had to

Jeremy Greer:

relive it, probably in the papers over and over again, and

Jeremy Greer:

had to, you know, kill herself for the first time, to actually

Jeremy Greer:

kill somebody herself, not kill herself. And have to hide that,

Jeremy Greer:

and then to go through Jack Crawford's questioning and all

Jeremy Greer:

of that stuff just kind of breaks and comes out as he's

Jeremy Greer:

holding her just absolutely cement in the idea that, like,

Jeremy Greer:

he's her father now. And Bryan fuller even had a point. But

Jeremy Greer:

like throughout this episode, this is what Hannibal is wanting

Jeremy Greer:

to do. Is wanted to create this family around him, to create

Jeremy Greer:

that Abigail and will and he are different than everyone else,

Jeremy Greer:

and he wants to pull them together to see their

Jeremy Greer:

differences, to be able to allow them to live with themselves for

Jeremy Greer:

who they are and not who they want to be. And the whole idea

Jeremy Greer:

is just, frankly, just an awful little murder family. And I love

Jeremy Greer:

it, and I hate it. It's just, it's just so scary.

Marie Vigouroux:

can kind of say that like he, like you said,

Marie Vigouroux:

he's the one who wants to create this family, this murder family.

Marie Vigouroux:

And I, as, as bad as I feel about will, who is being coerced

Marie Vigouroux:

into doing these things, like Will is a grown adult, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, perhaps one who is vulnerable, right? We can

Marie Vigouroux:

definitely say that for a lot of reasons, he is a vulnerable

Marie Vigouroux:

adult, but he's an adult, whereas Abigail, like is is

Marie Vigouroux:

like, she's still so young, and she is still like, at the mercy

Marie Vigouroux:

of this man who you know, she says, like, one of her first

Marie Vigouroux:

realizations is, like, you're just like my dad and like,

Marie Vigouroux:

that's exactly what it is, because, like, was Garrett Jacob

Marie Vigouroux:

Hobbs also not trying to create his own little murder family,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? And I just feel so much for Abigail, and I think that's

Marie Vigouroux:

me projecting, right? Because it there's like, as you know, like

Marie Vigouroux:

the Abigail storyline, like, hits me, like, right in the

Marie Vigouroux:

feels, like, I've said that before, and I just I hate that

Marie Vigouroux:

she's being manipulated, like, to lie for her father, to lie to

Marie Vigouroux:

other people, and that creates, like, a situation where you

Marie Vigouroux:

can't create real relationships with others when you're

Marie Vigouroux:

constantly having to lie about the things that you've done.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like it's just like, you know, he says that will would murder

Marie Vigouroux:

her future if he told the truth. But the reality is that he's

Marie Vigouroux:

already murdered her future by making her lie about herself,

Marie Vigouroux:

right?

Jeremy Greer:

And about her, specifically about her kill -

Jeremy Greer:

her killing Nick. Because the moment that it happens, she's

Jeremy Greer:

she says, you know, it was self defense. And he goes, No, this

Jeremy Greer:

wasn't self defense. Like they won't look at it that way, like

Jeremy Greer:

he forces her into a lie and literally murders her future,

Jeremy Greer:

right? Like just literally crosses that boundary as we keep

Jeremy Greer:

going back to of forcing her into to live this lie that she

Jeremy Greer:

has to then pretend is, is okay, right? Like she has to pretend

Jeremy Greer:

that it didn't happen, to the point where she's, like, pulling

Jeremy Greer:

bodies out of the ground to try to get past the trauma that she

Jeremy Greer:

lives with, to get past all of this weight. And it's, it's very

Jeremy Greer:

terrifying. Like, it's, it's, if Hannibal is capable of doing

Jeremy Greer:

this? Like, what else is he capable of? Right? Like, that's,

Jeremy Greer:

that's the question we have to ask ourselves. And I think we'll

Jeremy Greer:

probably find out of the next three episodes, Mary.

Marie Vigouroux:

oh, my God, is there only three episodes left?

Jeremy Greer:

There's only three episodes left, my friends, like,

Jeremy Greer:

we're gonna be, we're gonna be finished with Season One. And

Jeremy Greer:

like, people are not gonna even listen to Season Five yet. Like,

Jeremy Greer:

or Episode Five yet is going to be crazy.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, wow. You know, sometimes, just because,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, there were a few things on there that I was like, I kind of

Marie Vigouroux:

wonder, I the number of times that I have, like, held myself

Marie Vigouroux:

back from peeping into, like, the monster of the week server,

Marie Vigouroux:

like the rude eats spoilers channel, or because I am like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

want to know what people are saying about, like, my crazy

Marie Vigouroux:

like antics.

Jeremy Greer:

Well, I can, I can reassure you, if there's

Jeremy Greer:

anything in there that's specifically about the podcast,

Jeremy Greer:

that's not spoiler, if I'm sharing it with you, mostly

Jeremy Greer:

because people, like, like, one person today was like, Oh, I'm

Jeremy Greer:

watching the last episode. And then just came back and was

Jeremy Greer:

like, whoa. Everyone's like, yes, yes, yes. We know we've

Jeremy Greer:

been so it's a lot of actual spoilers, but the actual root

Jeremy Greer:

each channel, the non spoiler one, is really, really good.

Jeremy Greer:

People are talking about, like us talking about the podcast

Jeremy Greer:

there. So you're good.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's a lot of fun, actually, to be honest with

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah. It's a good amount of fun. Do you have any

Jeremy Greer:

you.

Jeremy Greer:

thoughts before we go into our review? Our review section? I

Jeremy Greer:

think I'm just we talk about it every time when we get to the

Jeremy Greer:

end of the episode where we're both just like, emotionally

Jeremy Greer:

drained about Hannibal. So I don't have any thoughts before

Jeremy Greer:

we get into our review setion.

Marie Vigouroux:

No, I'm just not entirely sure that we talked

Marie Vigouroux:

about the last scene on the train.

Jeremy Greer:

Oh, we did. We forgot. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.

Marie Vigouroux:

No it's fine. Well, it's because there was an

Marie Vigouroux:

interruption that people probably won't hear, but my

Marie Vigouroux:

audio disconnected entirely. So that's why we were not thinking

Marie Vigouroux:

about this.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, we have a last scene. It's all in black

Jeremy Greer:

and white, which is what Hannibal uses to denote like

Jeremy Greer:

past activities. And Abigail is on a train with her father, and

Jeremy Greer:

they are literally scoping out victims. And she sees somebody

Jeremy Greer:

that looks quite a bit like herself, like young, long,

Jeremy Greer:

straight hair, brown hair. And she goes over to meet her and to

Jeremy Greer:

talk about, talk to her. And we see Garrett Jacob Hobbs sitting

Jeremy Greer:

there, kind of watching them and looking away and smiling in a

Jeremy Greer:

very, very creepy way. And yeah, but this is just further

Jeremy Greer:

underlying the fact that she she legitimately, like, recruited

Jeremy Greer:

victims for her father. Just very terrifying.

Marie Vigouroux:

And this is something that Nick accused her

Marie Vigouroux:

of, right? When he confronted her, he's like, You were the

Marie Vigouroux:

bait, right? You made friends with them. And I remember at the

Marie Vigouroux:

time thinking, like, that's never been mentioned before. How

Marie Vigouroux:

would he know that? And then I that's kind of what alerted

Marie Vigouroux:

like, the red flags went up where I was like, Oh man, he

Marie Vigouroux:

knows like, and I think he might be right about that, right? And

Marie Vigouroux:

the thing is, like, Nick was not a likable character because he,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, was helping Freddie Lowndes, and just because he was

Marie Vigouroux:

so angry and whatnot. There were a lot of reasons why people

Marie Vigouroux:

would have disliked him. He was an antagonist. But he was right,

Marie Vigouroux:

you know, he he was right about that.

Jeremy Greer:

Well, and I don't know if you remember, but the

Jeremy Greer:

person that got him all hyped up about that right was him - was

Jeremy Greer:

him meeting Freddie Lowndes, the person that wants to write

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail's story. And again, scumbag, scumbag behavior,

Jeremy Greer:

absolute scumbag behavior. Love, we love, we love our witchy

Jeremy Greer:

redheads in these shows, but also scumbag behavior.

Marie Vigouroux:

Such scumbag behavior, that's the thing.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah. So for final thoughts, I mean, like I said, I don't

Marie Vigouroux:

really have any thoughts. The only thing that I will say is

Marie Vigouroux:

that I'm terrified of the next episode because it's called

Marie Vigouroux:

Buffet Froid, which is literally cold buffet, which, in a show

Marie Vigouroux:

like Hannibal, is absolutely terrifying.

Jeremy Greer:

Oh, is that what that means?

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes.

Jeremy Greer:

Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating.

Jeremy Greer:

Obviously, I was gonna look that up. We're probably gonna watch

Jeremy Greer:

the episode this weekend, because I'm super excited about

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal right now, so we're probably definitely gonna watch

Jeremy Greer:

it. I that is okay, cool. Let's go to reviews.

Jeremy Greer:

Why don't you start us off Mary?

Marie Vigouroux:

Of course. Oh, my God. Why did I agree to do

Marie Vigouroux:

this? Why am I putting myself through all this? Okay!

Jeremy Greer:

And why are you having so much fun about it,

Jeremy Greer:

right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, why am I liking it so much?

Jeremy Greer:

Why am I liking all of this misery? I don't

Jeremy Greer:

know. It's so hard.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's kind of like Will, where he's like

Marie Vigouroux:

hating, like he's hating being in cahoots with Hannibal, but at

Marie Vigouroux:

the same time, it like gets him going. You know, he's like, Oh,

Marie Vigouroux:

I love this anyway. I guess we'll see that eventually,

Marie Vigouroux:

because for sure, it has to happen. So I will give this

Marie Vigouroux:

episode four stars, because with its sweet and sour apple flavor,

Marie Vigouroux:

this trou Normand offered many unexpectedly icy twists to this

Marie Vigouroux:

season, leaving me hungry for more.

Jeremy Greer:

And I'll also give it four stars, so as a

Jeremy Greer:

deceptively simple flavor, hiding all sorts of secrets

Jeremy Greer:

within, this trou Normand highlighted the previous courses

Jeremy Greer:

and set the stage for the meal to come.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh yes, so true.

Jeremy Greer:

Thank you everybody for listening. Thank

Jeremy Greer:

you to all of the people leaving ratings reviews on Apple podcast

Jeremy Greer:

and for commenting on the episodes on Spotify. Again, I'll

Jeremy Greer:

mention I'm responding to all of those. So if you, if you wrote

Jeremy Greer:

something, more than likely, I've at least liked it. For some

Jeremy Greer:

reason, some reason, you can't like and comment, but I try to

Jeremy Greer:

comment or like all of them, so we're talking back to you.

Marie Vigouroux:

You can't like and comment, that's such a weird

Marie Vigouroux:

-

Jeremy Greer:

You can't, yeah, if you like it, it automatically

Jeremy Greer:

publishes it. And then I haven't figured out a way to comment on

Jeremy Greer:

it after that. And if you comment, you then publish it.

Jeremy Greer:

And I haven't, like, my it's Spotify, so weird. Like, I have

Jeremy Greer:

a separate Spotify account for podcast stuff that's not like

Jeremy Greer:

the one that I used to listen to music. So like, I can't, like,

Jeremy Greer:

just go into the app and, like, see stuff like, as as monster of

Jeremy Greer:

the week, or as as Rude Eats, right? Like I have to anyway,

Jeremy Greer:

it's, it's a, it's a weird situation. Thank you everybody

Jeremy Greer:

for commenting. That's what I'm coming back to.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, thank you for the comments. I actually

Marie Vigouroux:

really love them every time, every time you send a screenshot

Marie Vigouroux:

of them to me, I'm like, Oh, thank you guys!

Jeremy Greer:

The one this morning that someone and their

Jeremy Greer:

mom are watching the show together and listening to the

Jeremy Greer:

podcast is very, very, very dear to my heart. So thank you

Jeremy Greer:

everybody for listening. It's, it's so great. And it's, it's

Jeremy Greer:

means a lot to us, especially as a podcast that we're just doing

Jeremy Greer:

for fun. There's no There's no ads, there's no Patreon, there's

Jeremy Greer:

no there's no kofi. So let's tell everybody where we can be

Jeremy Greer:

found on the internet. Where are you nowadays?

Marie Vigouroux:

Well again, unfortunately, still on Twitter

Marie Vigouroux:

@maryturner_. You can also find my carrying wayward podcast

Marie Vigouroux:

about supernatural at carryingwayward.com and you can

Marie Vigouroux:

find my our flag means death podcast at the gentleman pirates

Marie Vigouroux:

library on Twitter and anywhere you listen to podcasts. What

Marie Vigouroux:

about you, Jeremy?

Jeremy Greer:

I would highly recommend both of those shows,

Jeremy Greer:

by the way. You can find me on Twitter @jggreer. You can find

Jeremy Greer:

all of my podcasts about X Files, supernatural, Merlin,

Jeremy Greer:

cowboy, bebop, Game of Thrones, just about everything I'm doing,

Jeremy Greer:

all of the TV shows now

Marie Vigouroux:

all of them, just all of them.

Jeremy Greer:

This is coming out - Oh, this is coming out way

Jeremy Greer:

after Halloween. So never mind, we've already, we've already

Jeremy Greer:

released all of our Halloween stuff. So if you, if you want to

Jeremy Greer:

lisen to -

Marie Vigouroux:

But go check it out. There's a lot of Halloween

Marie Vigouroux:

stuff that's gonna be coming out, apparently.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, we drank three beers and talked over

Jeremy Greer:

Twilight with Chris, and that was an experience. So go listen

Jeremy Greer:

to that. And again. Thank you for listening until the next

Jeremy Greer:

episode. Bon appetit.

Marie Vigouroux:

Bon appetit, everybody.

Marie Vigouroux:

Jeremy, I'm so scared.

Jeremy Greer:

You're gonna come home exhausted tomorrow from the

Jeremy Greer:

from the 5k and be like, alright, this is the time when

Jeremy Greer:

all of my defenses are low. This is the time.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh no. I think I'm gonna watch it today,

Marie Vigouroux:

because now I'm so scared. I'm so fucking scared right now.

Jeremy Greer:

It's intense. It's intense. It's one of my favorite

Jeremy Greer:

guest stars.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, who's guesting.

Jeremy Greer:

It's the it's the main star from Dead Like Me,

Jeremy Greer:

which I've mentioned to you a couple times, which is another

Jeremy Greer:

Bryan fuller show. So fun when they talked about Miriam Lass

Jeremy Greer:

being like the little sister to Georgia Lass and Dead Like Me.

Jeremy Greer:

This is the person that played Georgia Lass in Dead Like Me.

Jeremy Greer:

So, and there's no relation. There's no actual relation. It's

Jeremy Greer:

all just, like, you know, it's just all like, referential

Jeremy Greer:

stuff, like, there's no actual, like, lore or anything. It's

Jeremy Greer:

just that character.

Marie Vigouroux:

But it's Bryan fuller cinematic universe.

Jeremy Greer:

Exactly. Yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

BFCU.

Jeremy Greer:

BFCU. Yeah 100% dude. I wonder what that dude is

Jeremy Greer:

doing nowadays. I don't know that he's done anything.

Marie Vigouroux:

I don't know.

Jeremy Greer:

But

Marie Vigouroux:

what has he done since Hannibal?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, I know he did the monsters remake. Oh,

Jeremy Greer:

American Gods. I forgot about American Gods, because there was

Jeremy Greer:

the weirdness after American Gods, like, the first season was

Jeremy Greer:

really, really good. Boy, you want to talk about a role for

Jeremy Greer:

Gillian Anderson. Holy shit. That's very but then, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

American Gods, apparently, Star Trek Discovery,

Marie Vigouroux:

oh wow.

Jeremy Greer:

It looks like it's about it. I didn't, I didn't

Jeremy Greer:

watch Star Trek Discovery. I'm not, like, a huge Star Trek guy,

Jeremy Greer:

like, I like it, and I've watched a bunch of it, but I'm

Jeremy Greer:

not like.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay, sorry. I just saw it because I Googled

Marie Vigouroux:

Bryan Fuller and, like, something comes up, and I'm just

Marie Vigouroux:

like, Oh no, tell me, No, tell me, that's not true. But I don't

Marie Vigouroux:

know I'm gonna read the article, because I'm like, I don't, yeah,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, I don't love that.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it's a lot. It's a Yeah, yeah. Enjoy. Yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

The next episode, it's going to be a lot of fun. And I'm curious

Jeremy Greer:

what's your feelings about it, and, yeah, it's going to be

Jeremy Greer:

intense. So enjoy it.

Marie Vigouroux:

You know, I'm really scared because when I

Marie Vigouroux:

said, Buffet Froid, is cold buffet, like you were, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

fascinating. I don't want this to be fascinating.

Jeremy Greer:

It's, I can't wait to watch the episode tonight.

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm so excited. I want to know what Autumn

Marie Vigouroux:

thinks about it, too. I'm very excited about that.

Jeremy Greer:

I'll defenitely let you know. I hope you have a

Jeremy Greer:

good day, and if I I'm sure I'll talk to you between them, but

Jeremy Greer:

good luck on the 5k and I'm sure you'll do great.

Marie Vigouroux:

Thank you. I'm just hoping to make it before

Marie Vigouroux:

the cutoff time. Like, that's all I'm hoping. And I just don't

Marie Vigouroux:

know that I'm gonna be able to because I'm not feeling my at

Marie Vigouroux:

the top of my shape. And I am very slow. I'm a slow runner. So

Marie Vigouroux:

it is what it is. But there you go.

Jeremy Greer:

We were watching, there's this, like, murder

Jeremy Greer:

mystery show on Netflix called the perfect couple. It's kind of

Jeremy Greer:

like a, it's almost like a glass oniony White Lotus kind of show,

Jeremy Greer:

but, like, not quite as good as either one of those. And there

Jeremy Greer:

was a girl like that went on a run for a beach and, like, it

Jeremy Greer:

was so obvious. This actress has never run in her life before,

Jeremy Greer:

like, because Autumn was, like, that's how I run. Like, that's

Jeremy Greer:

not good.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's really hard to run on a beach, by the

Marie Vigouroux:

way. Like, the sand is really, like, makes it particularly

Marie Vigouroux:

hard, but yeah, all right, I am gonna go and watch the next

Marie Vigouroux:

episode.

Jeremy Greer:

Excellent. Podcast for two hours about the show,

Jeremy Greer:

and then immediately, immediately watch the Next one.

Jeremy Greer:

I love it. Have a great day.

Marie Vigouroux:

Bye.

Jeremy Greer:

I like that idea, though. Just like our language

Jeremy Greer:

is better than yours, even if you even if your words are fine,

Jeremy Greer:

we're gonna, we're gonna dress it up a little bit like we

Jeremy Greer:

gotta, we gotta keep going.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, it's because, like, historically,

Marie Vigouroux:

Quebec is kind of like in a weird space, like

Marie Vigouroux:

geopolitically, right, like it's, it's in a very English

Marie Vigouroux:

speaking continent, surrounded by a lot of English speakers,

Marie Vigouroux:

and so for a long, long time, like when you were French in

Marie Vigouroux:

Quebec, you couldn't get, like, you couldn't get the same jobs

Marie Vigouroux:

that you could if you spoke English, you know, like, there

Marie Vigouroux:

was definitely, like, a class system associated with that, and

Marie Vigouroux:

like, the lower class people were definitely the French

Marie Vigouroux:

people. So there was, like, this effort by the government at one

Marie Vigouroux:

point to be like, No, French is our language, and there will be

Marie Vigouroux:

none of that like discrimination. And so they like

Marie Vigouroux:

put in a bunch of rules, and then they just really went

Marie Vigouroux:

overboard.

Jeremy Greer:

Oh, wow, that's interesting. Yeah, that's kind

Jeremy Greer:

of fascinating. I have a friend that lives in Quebec, an

Jeremy Greer:

internet not like a real friend, like an internet friend, but

Jeremy Greer:

like an internet friend that I've known for probably a decade

Jeremy Greer:

at this point. So it seems weird not a real friend, and he

Jeremy Greer:

comments from time to time about the the francification of Quebec

Jeremy Greer:

and kind of how sometimes it can be kind of annoying, and

Jeremy Greer:

sometimes it can be weird geopolitically, like you said.

Jeremy Greer:

So most of the times he just posts about video games, though,

Jeremy Greer:

so I don't get a lot.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, that's the thing. Like, I just, I don't

Marie Vigouroux:

know it's, I find it super weird because, like, who the fuck

Marie Vigouroux:

cares if you use podcast instead of baladodiffusion? Like that is

Marie Vigouroux:

not, like, one thing that's gonna make the language

Marie Vigouroux:

disappear, right?

Jeremy Greer:

I'm just, you know, there's an effort down

Jeremy Greer:

here to maintain Cajun French, because it's, it's, it's

Jeremy Greer:

something that's dying out pretty quickly, although, like,

Jeremy Greer:

you can go to the one was at the library the other day and was

Jeremy Greer:

like, she was texting me, so, like, there's these two old

Jeremy Greer:

people in the line in front of me, and I just, they're just

Jeremy Greer:

full on Cajun French, like, I cannot understand the word that

Jeremy Greer:

they're saying, and it was, and it's a really, like, it's a

Jeremy Greer:

charming thing, but it's and they, you Know, Like we teach

Jeremy Greer:

French in high school down here, I think to try to maintain some

Jeremy Greer:

of that, but it's one of those things that just like, if you

Jeremy Greer:

don't grow up with it, like you don't do you just don't grow up

Jeremy Greer:

with it, so you don't, it's hard to get into like I would feel

Jeremy Greer:

very so there's a thing down here Where Cajuns say SHA, or

Jeremy Greer:

SHA, like, sha babe. And with a Cajun accent, it like it's

Jeremy Greer:

perfectly normal, like, you know, I'm gonna, you know, sha

Jeremy Greer:

babe or whatever, but it's become such a thing, like, the

Jeremy Greer:

people have lost their accents. Autumn was complaining about

Jeremy Greer:

this. It's like, I'd hate when I hear these valley girl accents,

Jeremy Greer:

say sha babe. It just doesn't make any sense.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, wow, that's too funny.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it's kind of funny living in South Louisiana

Jeremy Greer:

sometimes.

Marie Vigouroux:

And I mean, that's the thing. I feel like,

Marie Vigouroux:

you know, if you wanted to be a champion for the French language

Marie Vigouroux:

in North America, like, I think that makes complete sense,

Marie Vigouroux:

especially for those regions like it, like, I can't really

Marie Vigouroux:

speak to, oh my goodness, what's happening with my voice. But

Marie Vigouroux:

like, I can't really speak to what's happening in Louisiana,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? Like, with French, because I don't, I'm not there,

Marie Vigouroux:

but I know that, like in certain communities in like rural

Marie Vigouroux:

Ontario or Manitoba, like, there's a lot of people who

Marie Vigouroux:

speak French and who don't receive the same services

Marie Vigouroux:

because they don't like the services are not in French in

Marie Vigouroux:

that part of Canada, right? Whereas, like in Quebec, they've

Marie Vigouroux:

made it like they're a point to offer everything in French, and

Marie Vigouroux:

so much so that they won't offer certain services in English,

Marie Vigouroux:

which is kind of like, completely besides the point.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, yeah. No, no, that's, that's awful. I

Jeremy Greer:

mean, I mean, just like, well -

Marie Vigouroux:

There you go, one way or another, right? Like,

Marie Vigouroux:

if, if you're not just, if you're not serving your

Marie Vigouroux:

population in the language that they need to be served, then,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, What the fuck are you doing as the government, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, and for both.

Jeremy Greer:

This just, it just smacks of, like, you know, you

Jeremy Greer:

need to speak English in this country or whatever. And like,

Jeremy Greer:

no, no, you don't. You can speak whatever, like, what you want to

Jeremy Greer:

exactly. People always forget about the melting pot. They

Jeremy Greer:

just, they just assume we were gumbo all along. That's not

Jeremy Greer:

true. I love that a lot of a lot of individual flavors went into

Jeremy Greer:

this, this whole pot situation.

Marie Vigouroux:

Exactly, and especially in Canada, because we

Marie Vigouroux:

don't have a melting pot policy. We have a different kind of of

Marie Vigouroux:

policy, which is multiculturalism, which is

Marie Vigouroux:

basically like anybody can, well, that's not true, but like

Marie Vigouroux:

anybody can come and live here and you can keep your your

Marie Vigouroux:

culture, because we are a multicultural country. We're not

Marie Vigouroux:

a melting pot, right? It's not. We're not. We don't all become

Marie Vigouroux:

one culture with all of our cultures. Like, it's, it stays

Marie Vigouroux:

pretty, like everybody keeps their culture when they come to

Marie Vigouroux:

Canada. Obviously, when they talk about that, they don't talk

Marie Vigouroux:

about the fact that, like, our immigration is so selective that

Marie Vigouroux:

basically only certain people can come here, right? We don't

Marie Vigouroux:

talk about that. That's a big shhhhh we don't like to talk

Marie Vigouroux:

about it, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Nobody, nobody talk about the obvious things.

Jeremy Greer:

That's cool.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, exactly nobody talk about the stuff that

Marie Vigouroux:

we don't want to talk about. Like, for a very long time,

Marie Vigouroux:

actually, Canada's immigration policy stated that people from

Marie Vigouroux:

certain countries were just not suited to winter and therefore

Marie Vigouroux:

were not granted entry.

Jeremy Greer:

Okay, sure, sure. Sure, sure, sure.

Marie Vigouroux:

I will let you guess what exactly that meant in

Marie Vigouroux:

practical terms,

Jeremy Greer:

I can absolutely see that, probably that white

Jeremy Greer:

dudes from North America, I bet, I bet that wasn't bad.

Marie Vigouroux:

There you go. Yeah, that's fine, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Man, politics is a system. It's It's never good.

Jeremy Greer:

It's just like, we've gotten better, but we haven't really

Jeremy Greer:

gotten like, Great. I'm reading. I'm actually watching and

Jeremy Greer:

reading the expanse right now, which is a science fiction

Jeremy Greer:

series. People call it like Game of Thrones in space. But unlike

Jeremy Greer:

Game of Thrones, there's not like, a lot of sexual violence

Jeremy Greer:

or anything. So it's a little bit easier to read.

Marie Vigouroux:

I was actually gonna be, like, is there as much

Marie Vigouroux:

sexual violence?

Jeremy Greer:

As far as I know, there's none, like, there's

Jeremy Greer:

like, casual mentions of, like, crimes, but there's no, like,

Jeremy Greer:

graphic depictions or anything. But it's interesting because

Jeremy Greer:

they there's kind of like three geopolitical parties, like,

Jeremy Greer:

there's Earth, there's the colonies on Mars, and then

Jeremy Greer:

there's the Belters. And the thing I found fascinating about

Jeremy Greer:

the Belters who live on, like this asteroid belt, like in

Jeremy Greer:

space, mining materials for the inners, the inner planets, is

Jeremy Greer:

that they have in space, like, over time, over 100 years or so,

Jeremy Greer:

like, they've gotten taller. Their bones have extended, their

Jeremy Greer:

they can't they can't deal with 1g weight very well, things like

Jeremy Greer:

that, like, they've adapted. So it creates this, like, almost

Jeremy Greer:

like, like, Are you a different species, kind of racism, kind of

Jeremy Greer:

thing. And the books deal with it like, as it is, right? Like,

Jeremy Greer:

they present this thing and like characters react to it, or have

Jeremy Greer:

different opinions, or whatever. And it's just, it's just really

Jeremy Greer:

fascinating, like, the way that it all kind of gels together and

Jeremy Greer:

everything. So it's also fun reading and watching a show at

Jeremy Greer:

the same time.

Marie Vigouroux:

You mean, kind of like what you did with

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal? Reading and watching and everything?

Jeremy Greer:

Where I binge three books between Episode One

Jeremy Greer:

and two.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh my God, by the way, I completely skipped

Marie Vigouroux:

the whole like you guys talking about long legs. I was like, Am

Marie Vigouroux:

I allowed to listen to this? I don't know.

Jeremy Greer:

We spoil it pretty heavily, so you probably want to

Jeremy Greer:

watch the movie for beforehand. But yeah, if it's, it's, it's

Jeremy Greer:

such an interesting movie because it's very it's obviously

Jeremy Greer:

homage to silence of the lambs, right? Like, it pays off.

Jeremy Greer:

There's a jack Crawford, like, there's a, there's a guy that is

Jeremy Greer:

Jack Crawford in that movie, which is just fascinating to me,

Jeremy Greer:

but also, at the same time, it's, it's got some, it's got

Jeremy Greer:

some real spooky vibes, like, and people talked about it like,

Jeremy Greer:

Nicolas Cage's performance was, like, camp or whatever. And I

Jeremy Greer:

just, I don't, I don't know if you've seen, like, the previews

Jeremy Greer:

or anything, where he's, like, all in this, like, weird makeup

Jeremy Greer:

or whatever, but it's, it's an intense performance, and I

Jeremy Greer:

didn't get camp out of it at all. Like, I just got, like,

Jeremy Greer:

terrifying psycho killer vibes.

Marie Vigouroux:

We have different definitions of camp.

Jeremy Greer:

I got saved the other day about tick tock. I had

Jeremy Greer:

been looking forward to a horror movie, trying to remember the

Jeremy Greer:

name of it now. I was looking forward to it so much I can't

Jeremy Greer:

remember the name. Oh no, but I saw the preview, and Brandy was

Jeremy Greer:

in it, like the singer Brandy. And I was like, Oh well, this

Jeremy Greer:

is, I haven't seen Brandy in like forever. This is going to

Jeremy Greer:

be great. And it's a, like, it looks like a cool, like, kind of

Jeremy Greer:

spooky horror movie kind of situation. And then a reviewer

Jeremy Greer:

that I follow on Tiktok was like, hey, so I followed this. I

Jeremy Greer:

just have question, one question, why is there so much

Jeremy Greer:

poop in this? And I was like, Okay, well, I'm out. Like, don't

Jeremy Greer:

need, don't need this in my life whatsoever.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh no.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah. Just don't understand, why?

Marie Vigouroux:

Why?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, I don't know. I don't Yeah, and like,

Jeremy Greer:

she, she went on to, like, get it was, it was a lot, like,

Jeremy Greer:

Okay, this is not, this is not me at all. I can't do it.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, even listening to the review about

Marie Vigouroux:

this is grossing me out. I'm good.

Jeremy Greer:

Just, there's certain things, like in horror

Jeremy Greer:

movies, that I just, you know, I don't really, particularly like

Jeremy Greer:

torture porn stuff, like just gratuitous killing, for killing

Jeremy Greer:

sake, when it's like, hyper realistic, like, give me a

Jeremy Greer:

slasher movie any day. I watched a ridiculous slasher movie the

Jeremy Greer:

other day where the kill was like, this dude shoves his hand

Jeremy Greer:

through somebody's chest from the back, puts a hook on their

Jeremy Greer:

head from the front, and literally pulls their whole body

Jeremy Greer:

through the hole of the chest. Like it was the most over the

Jeremy Greer:

top, ridiculous, impossible thing you've ever seen. Like, it

Jeremy Greer:

doesn't make any sense whatsoever, but I was cheering

Jeremy Greer:

the entire time because I was like, Oh, this is this is

Jeremy Greer:

ridiculous. Like, this is impossible.

Marie Vigouroux:

At that point, you might as well, right? It's

Marie Vigouroux:

like, okay, all right, let's just forget everything about

Marie Vigouroux:

physics and medicine and let's just enjoy this ridiculous

Marie Vigouroux:

movie.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, just, let's just have some fun.

Marie Vigouroux:

I love it.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, I'm just gonna bug me that I can't the

Jeremy Greer:

front room is the brandy movie with, apparently, too much poop,

Jeremy Greer:

so watch out

Marie Vigouroux:

the front room?

Jeremy Greer:

Front room, yeah, it's got Brandy's face on the

Jeremy Greer:

cover. Like, you can't miss it. It's a horror movie.

Marie Vigouroux:

okay, well, thank you for telling me. I

Marie Vigouroux:

wasn't gonna watch it, and I'm not gonna watch it now.

Jeremy Greer:

And you've got, you've got Jazz Fest playing

Jeremy Greer:

outside your house this weekend.

Marie Vigouroux:

Blues Fest, Yes, blues fest. It's, it's,

Marie Vigouroux:

yeah. So it's actually been a lot of fun. Like, every year,

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm like, oh my god, blues fest is coming up. It's gonna be so

Marie Vigouroux:

much fun. And then at like, 11 o'clock at night, when I'm in

Marie Vigouroux:

bed trying to see blues fest is playing. I'm like, Oh no, it's

Marie Vigouroux:

blues fest again, exactly.

Jeremy Greer:

I have friends that live kind of around the

Jeremy Greer:

area they do Jazz Fest every year, and it's a similar

Jeremy Greer:

situation where they like, invite you over, like a party,

Jeremy Greer:

and then like, we leave, but they have to stay all night.

Jeremy Greer:

Jazz Fest goes almost all night.

Marie Vigouroux:

yeah, luckily here, like, they have, they

Marie Vigouroux:

can't go past 11. Like, that's the, the maximum that they can

Marie Vigouroux:

go, Yeah, well, I mean, we're, I'm right next to, like, an old

Marie Vigouroux:

folks home and whatnot. So, like, you can't, like, you know

Marie Vigouroux:

what? I mean, like, it's, it's, yeah,

Jeremy Greer:

I never thought about that. Living next to an

Jeremy Greer:

old folks home probably has some, like, passive benefits,

Jeremy Greer:

just in terms of, like, cops wanting to keep the noise level

Jeremy Greer:

down. I like that.

Marie Vigouroux:

Definitely. Like, I, I'm actually, I'm very,

Marie Vigouroux:

very lucky, because I live right next to all of the town

Marie Vigouroux:

services. Like, I'm right next to the library, I'm right next

Marie Vigouroux:

to the community center, I'm right next to the pool, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

right next to everything.

Jeremy Greer:

Never move.

Marie Vigouroux:

I really don't want to I love it there. Like,

Marie Vigouroux:

there's the market every Wednesday. Like, you know, it's

Marie Vigouroux:

very, very cool. I like it,

Jeremy Greer:

Especially now that you've got your -

Marie Vigouroux:

The churche is right across the street as well.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, as we learned last episode, the church

Jeremy Greer:

is there for your religion. And you got your brand new air

Jeremy Greer:

conditioner, right? Like, that's awesome.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, that was awesome. I got my brand new air

Marie Vigouroux:

conditioner. It's been really cool. Like, literally, I can

Marie Vigouroux:

just, like, turn it on and it works immediately. I don't need

Marie Vigouroux:

to wait, like, 24 to 48 hours actually cool my apartment.

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, having, living in the South, having,

Jeremy Greer:

like, we, I invest way too much money in ridiculous air

Jeremy Greer:

conditioning, because just like, we just need it. Like, you just,

Jeremy Greer:

you just want, you gotta, you gotta have it. So it's -

Marie Vigouroux:

That's also the thing, like, I live on the third

Marie Vigouroux:

floor of a of a three story building, like, it gets really

Marie Vigouroux:

hot, because heat comes up, right? So, like, I get the heat

Marie Vigouroux:

from all of the apartments downstairs, which is great in

Marie Vigouroux:

the winter, like, I barely heat but like, in the summer it's

Marie Vigouroux:

awful.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it's, it's pretty miserable we did when

Jeremy Greer:

Hurricane Delta hit. We did four days without power. And at the

Jeremy Greer:

time, I didn't have, like, a generator to run anything. I

Jeremy Greer:

had, like a little, tiny generator that I was keeping,

Jeremy Greer:

like, my freezer full of food and my refrigerator and my

Jeremy Greer:

switch charged. I had to get that guy to, you know, make sure

Jeremy Greer:

my priorities are in order,

Marie Vigouroux:

but not the AC, just the Switch.

Jeremy Greer:

No air conditioners, yeah, just fans

Jeremy Greer:

and and autumn, luckily, like, the Autumn was like, on a

Jeremy Greer:

business trip when delta landed, and she was like, I'm just gonna

Jeremy Greer:

stay up here. And I was like, that's a good idea. He shouldn't

Jeremy Greer:

come down here. There's nothing for you here. And it was, it was

Jeremy Greer:

like, literally, like me and her dad getting into my truck and,

Jeremy Greer:

like, cranking the air conditioner, just driving around

Jeremy Greer:

and seeing stuff just to have air conditioner like it was, it

Jeremy Greer:

was bad.

Marie Vigouroux:

And how do the dogs deal with that usually?

Jeremy Greer:

I mean, you know, basset hounds are pretty much

Jeremy Greer:

bumps in a log anyway, so this is just like them being even

Jeremy Greer:

lazier than they normally are. Oh, like I had all of the the

Jeremy Greer:

windows open in the living room and fans going to try to get,

Jeremy Greer:

like, a cross breeze going as much as possible. But you could

Jeremy Greer:

tell like they were just, like laying on the floor, kind of

Jeremy Greer:

panting a little bit. I just try to keep them, you know, there's

Jeremy Greer:

some ice in the water bowl and everything like that. Just try

Jeremy Greer:

to keep them cool. But they survived. I guess, I think those

Jeremy Greer:

two survived, yeah, pretty sure.

Marie Vigouroux:

If we hear them like losing their minds during

Marie Vigouroux:

the podcast, they have survived.

Jeremy Greer:

Well, the - Penny, the Screamer, is curled up in

Jeremy Greer:

bed with autumn who is sleeping because she is she is sick.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh no. Oh yeah. You guys were sick this week.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, my voice is a little, I don't know if you

Jeremy Greer:

can tell my voice is a little deeper than usual, because I

Jeremy Greer:

think I'm still on the other side. I think I'm still on the

Jeremy Greer:

other side of it. I'm not just talking like shredder because I

Jeremy Greer:

can. It's just what's happening.

Marie Vigouroux:

You're taking out your Dean Winchester voice.

Jeremy Greer:

Sammeh!

Marie Vigouroux:

Do that but with Will, Will

Jeremy Greer:

Tell me, will? Any demons in this area?

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, my God.

Jeremy Greer:

Dean and will hanging out would be just an

Jeremy Greer:

experience, just two little weirdos just being weird they

Jeremy Greer:

get together in the same room. I feel like

Marie Vigouroux:

they would have trouble communicating, because

Marie Vigouroux:

they just would and they would probably not get each other, you

Marie Vigouroux:

know?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, I think, I think, like, in the fic in my

Jeremy Greer:

mind, like the premise is them, like, not quite like there's

Jeremy Greer:

only one bed at the end situation, but like we're - We

Jeremy Greer:

have to room with each other for a weekend, for like, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

reasons or something like, so they just have to be in this

Jeremy Greer:

small, confined space. So they have to interact with each

Jeremy Greer:

other. And like, of course, the first 24 hours, they barely

Jeremy Greer:

speak, and then, like, they finally, like, start, start

Jeremy Greer:

opening up to each other a little bit, but it's always

Jeremy Greer:

very, very awkward the entire time. What do you do for a

Jeremy Greer:

living?

Marie Vigouroux:

They have fishing in common.

Jeremy Greer:

They do have fishing in common. You're right,

Jeremy Greer:

yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

I feel like maybe that could be like an

Marie Vigouroux:

opening, like in the fic that you're writing in your mind.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, of course, Tiktok told me that creating

Jeremy Greer:

internal fantasy worlds is a sign of like ADHD or something.

Jeremy Greer:

Now I'm just afraid to build these fics in my mind, because

Jeremy Greer:

I'm afraid I'm gonna get diagnosed with a mental disease

Jeremy Greer:

of some sort.

Marie Vigouroux:

Never be afraid to build the fics in your mind.

Marie Vigouroux:

That's how I survived my childhood.

Jeremy Greer:

Right? This is complex, you know, internal

Jeremy Greer:

fantasy structures that I'm living my life through.

Marie Vigouroux:

I know, right? I get that what - I'm running a

Marie Vigouroux:

5k tomorrow.

Jeremy Greer:

You are, how is that? Yeah, so you've done a 5k

Jeremy Greer:

run, like, just this normal, right? Like, not in a race,

Jeremy Greer:

right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah well, yeah, I've run 5k before, and I

Marie Vigouroux:

also did, like, a race in April or May or something. But, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

I really wasn't ready to run 5k like, I had not run 5k before.

Marie Vigouroux:

So, like, technically, I really shouldn't have done that race,

Marie Vigouroux:

but whatever, I just did it because I could. And so I've

Marie Vigouroux:

been, like, running all summer, and so I'm hoping that, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

this time I'm gonna it's gonna feel at least easier than it did

Marie Vigouroux:

last time, because last time I ran the 5k and then I came home

Marie Vigouroux:

and I didn't move for like, almost 24 hours.

Jeremy Greer:

I was about to say, I remember you posted on

Jeremy Greer:

Twitter about, like, just collapsing afterwards. So what's

Jeremy Greer:

the what's the preparation like for running a 5k like, are you

Jeremy Greer:

doing stuff today to prep for it, or is that like a morning

Jeremy Greer:

thing right before the race activity?

Marie Vigouroux:

So, I mean, the whole goal is to prep

Marie Vigouroux:

beforehand. Now keep in mind that I was, like, super out of

Marie Vigouroux:

shape, like, for a while. Like, I did yoga last year, but that

Marie Vigouroux:

was pretty much it. And then before that, like, I think the

Marie Vigouroux:

last time that I actually, like, properly exercised was, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

2016 2017 or something, like, a while ago. So it took me a while

Marie Vigouroux:

to, like, just get back to it. And the last week before a race,

Marie Vigouroux:

you're supposed to do what's called a taper, so you do a lot

Marie Vigouroux:

less, so that you arrive at your race really fresh and rested.

Marie Vigouroux:

The issue was that I was sick this week as well, so we'll see

Marie Vigouroux:

how it goes. And I've kind of like, let go of expectations.

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm like, You know what? Let's just treat it like any other 5k

Marie Vigouroux:

and if you make the time cut off, then you make the time cut

Marie Vigouroux:

off, and if not, then you don't and it's fine.

Jeremy Greer:

This sounds suspiciously like you're letting

Jeremy Greer:

Jesus take the wheel. Is that -

Marie Vigouroux:

I know a little bit like, what was that thing

Marie Vigouroux:

that you said to me that I was like, that is so southern I love

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, you were talking about somebody who

Jeremy Greer:

it.

Jeremy Greer:

couldn't sing, like she was, she could sing, but so she was

Jeremy Greer:

singing like, way out of her register. And that's something

Jeremy Greer:

about like, people take Scott people take God's gifts and as

Jeremy Greer:

an invitation to ask for more. And I don't know where it came

Jeremy Greer:

from. It's like, out of the boundaries of, like, backwoods

Jeremy Greer:

Mississippi grandma, like, Thank you mama for probably saying

Jeremy Greer:

that to me when I was three.

Marie Vigouroux:

That's the most southern thing I've ever heard

Marie Vigouroux:

you say.

Jeremy Greer:

You may not know this. My dad is my boss, so I

Jeremy Greer:

work for my dad in the quote, unquote family business. And we

Jeremy Greer:

had a business meeting the other day, and we were without going

Jeremy Greer:

into a lot of details, the the other party the business thing,

Jeremy Greer:

was like, No, you can't have this. And we were kind of

Jeremy Greer:

arguing like, No, we should have this, right? And it kind of got

Jeremy Greer:

to the situation where the other party was like, we, we see you,

Jeremy Greer:

we understand that you feel this way. It's not going to happen.

Jeremy Greer:

And my dad kind of like, shrugged, and was like, Well,

Jeremy Greer:

you know, you know what they say, it's a poor frog that

Jeremy Greer:

doesn't croak for its own pond, and and the and the entire

Jeremy Greer:

place, like, there's like, six people in this meeting, and,

Jeremy Greer:

like a hotel, like lobby kind of situation, and we all like to

Jeremy Greer:

swiveled our heads with like, What in the fuck did you just

Jeremy Greer:

say?

Marie Vigouroux:

I love this so much

Jeremy Greer:

And I had to, like, repeat it, and I couldn't

Jeremy Greer:

even help myself, dude, sometimes you say to sometimes

Jeremy Greer:

you say the country is shit, like, I just couldn't even help

Jeremy Greer:

myself. And it's a relatively, like, casual meeting, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Like, we're, it's a business meeting, but like, we all know

Jeremy Greer:

one another and things like that. So like, everyone had a

Jeremy Greer:

good laugh. But like, everyone was like, What? What does that

Jeremy Greer:

even mean? And he was like, Well, yeah, if you're, it's a

Jeremy Greer:

toad that's croaking for his own pond, like he's speaking up for

Jeremy Greer:

what he what for what he makes is his own. And I was like, it

Jeremy Greer:

totally makes sense. And I've known you for 43 years, and

Jeremy Greer:

you've never said it once to me, so this is just a strange

Jeremy Greer:

experience.

Marie Vigouroux:

I love this so much because it makes so much

Marie Vigouroux:

sense, like I heard it, and I was like, Oh yeah, of course,

Marie Vigouroux:

yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

It's one of those really great phrases that just

Jeremy Greer:

like a. Soon as you hear it, you're like, well, course that

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, all of that makes sense. So yeah,

Marie Vigouroux:

all of that makes sense. Good job. Jeremy's

Marie Vigouroux:

dad, good job.

Jeremy Greer:

Good job, Dad, we're gonna work on your

Jeremy Greer:

parenting skills next, but your idioms, idioms are 10/10.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, I felt that in my heart. I felt that deep in

Marie Vigouroux:

my chest.

Jeremy Greer:

You can make - anybody can make me laugh, but

Jeremy Greer:

you can't make me cry, but you can only make me cry. I give my

Jeremy Greer:

dad a lot of shit on podcast, and he doesn't deserve it at

Jeremy Greer:

all, but he also he doesn't listen. So it's never gonna be

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, there you go. I, you know, I feel like

Marie Vigouroux:

getting me in trouble.

Marie Vigouroux:

it's one of those things where, like, sometimes, like, you know,

Marie Vigouroux:

sometimes it's well deserved. Parents are like, Yeah, I guess

Marie Vigouroux:

so. You're not wrong there.

Jeremy Greer:

I have a new coworker, and we were riding

Jeremy Greer:

together this week, so we're doing like, the normal get to

Jeremy Greer:

know you thing, and he just straight up asked, like, what

Jeremy Greer:

are your What are your hobbies? And I was like, Is this a date?

Jeremy Greer:

Like, what do we it's just a weird, I mean, it's a fine

Jeremy Greer:

question, but it's just a very direct, like, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

obviously he's scraping the bottom of the barrel to come up

Jeremy Greer:

with anything to talk to me about. So, like, what are your

Jeremy Greer:

hobbies, right? And I was like, Well, I do a lot of podcasts.

Jeremy Greer:

And he gets excited. I can tell he's like, oh, what kind of

Jeremy Greer:

podcast do you do? And I'm like, Oh, I do you know stuff about,

Jeremy Greer:

like, movies and TV shows and video games. Like, we cover a

Jeremy Greer:

lot of media. Like watch a long podcast, and I've never

Jeremy Greer:

podcasts, and I've never seen someone deflate so fast, like,

Jeremy Greer:

he was just like, oh, like, the most. And I was like, what kind

Jeremy Greer:

of podcast were you thinking that I did? Like, what kind of

Jeremy Greer:

podcast are there that she thought that you got so excited

Jeremy Greer:

about it?

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah I was gonna say, like, what was he

Marie Vigouroux:

hoping?

Jeremy Greer:

We never the con we, like, got interrupted, and

Jeremy Greer:

the conversation never, never resumed. So I never I'll have to

Jeremy Greer:

find out what kind of podcast, like, I don't know if he thought

Jeremy Greer:

I was, like, on the Joe Rogan show or something like, that's

Jeremy Greer:

maybe something.

Marie Vigouroux:

So I was gonna say, like, do you think that he

Marie Vigouroux:

listens to, like, Joe Rogan and stuff? And he was like, Oh my

Marie Vigouroux:

God. Is that what you do?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, do you interview, you know, scientists

Jeremy Greer:

and talk about, you know, frogs or whatever? I don't know what

Jeremy Greer:

Joe Rogan talks about.

Marie Vigouroux:

I don't know either frankly

Jeremy Greer:

find that dude repulsive.

Marie Vigouroux:

I try not to the least I know about Joe

Marie Vigouroux:

Rogan, the better my life is direct relationship, direct

Marie Vigouroux:

inverse relationship.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it's like using Twitter, right? Like, the

Jeremy Greer:

less I use Twitter, the better I am. The less I see Joe Rogan's

Jeremy Greer:

face on my phone, the better I am period.

Marie Vigouroux:

I agree. It's definitely one of those things.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, my God.

Jeremy Greer:

I guess we should talk about Hannibal, because I

Jeremy Greer:

have a feeling, as I'm scrolling through and seeing all of the

Jeremy Greer:

green text in the notes that this is going to be a long

Jeremy Greer:

episode. Okay, I am excited.

Marie Vigouroux:

Is there that much green text? Yeah, I wrote a

Marie Vigouroux:

lot. Oh yeah, you wrote your review today.

Jeremy Greer:

I did. I was doing that while you were teaching me

Jeremy Greer:

French while talking to your mother on the phone.

Marie Vigouroux:

My mom is running the 5k race with me, so

Marie Vigouroux:

that's awesome. I can't, I can't find the start time. I'm like,

Marie Vigouroux:

it's 10: 30 I told you this, like, mother!

Jeremy Greer:

can't find the start time. Google it. It's

Jeremy Greer:

easy.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, okay, so the so just last thing before we

Marie Vigouroux:

get going, one thing that I do sometimes with Rachel is that

Marie Vigouroux:

I'll just, I'll just text her, Rochelle, my mother, and she's

Marie Vigouroux:

like, What? What did she do? My mother, like, that's it. That's

Marie Vigouroux:

just, that's a complete sentence for us.

Jeremy Greer:

Autumn's dad came to the door yesterday. So it's a

Jeremy Greer:

weird living setup where we're, like, we converted our garage

Jeremy Greer:

into an apartment, and then the garage and the house are

Jeremy Greer:

separated by like, a little breezeway area. So he has his

Jeremy Greer:

own little, like space. We have our space. There's like a mutual

Jeremy Greer:

space. So he comes over and knocks on the door last night,

Jeremy Greer:

and I opened the door. And usually he's like, something's

Jeremy Greer:

wrong. I need some help or whatever, like, whatever. But

Jeremy Greer:

now he was like, Hey, I just watched a TV show about cancer.

Jeremy Greer:

And I was like, okay.

Marie Vigouroux:

oh no.

Jeremy Greer:

He pulls his he pulls the neck of his shirt

Jeremy Greer:

over, and he's like, what's this? There's like, a spot on

Jeremy Greer:

his neck. And I'm like, I don't know, dude. Like, I don't think

Jeremy Greer:

that it's cancer. Like, I don't think that you got cancer in the

Jeremy Greer:

last day. But he's like, Well, I've told Autumn about this too.

Jeremy Greer:

And I'm like, Yeah, I could hear her, she's, she's asking me if

Jeremy Greer:

it's the spot. And I can, I can hear her from the other room

Jeremy Greer:

asking me. So I said, you know, you go to the doctor soon. We'll

Jeremy Greer:

get it checked out or cut off, whichever one he wants, which is

Jeremy Greer:

really funny. I'll watch a TV show about cancer. What's this?

Jeremy Greer:

Shout out to Mark, If you listen, he listens to all the

Jeremy Greer:

podcasts.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh yay. All right, I'm ready.

Jeremy Greer:

I just finished my coffee. Accidentally made my

Jeremy Greer:

coffee, I gotta a newfancy coffee pot maker, and it does

Jeremy Greer:

cold foam, like you can do, like I got a slide iced lattes, and,

Jeremy Greer:

oh yes, I accidentally made cold foam this morning and put it in

Jeremy Greer:

my drink. And when I picked it up, I was like, why is my

Jeremy Greer:

espresso hot or cold? Like, why is it freezing cold? Old and

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, still tasty, though, oh yeah,

Marie Vigouroux:

there You go. It's like It's cold-spresso

Jeremy Greer:

Exactly.

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for Rude Eats: A Hannibal Podcast
Rude Eats: A Hannibal Podcast
Feast your ears on Rude Eats, the new podcast that's been simmering in the shadows, where we dissect NBC's Hannibal with dark humor and ominous insights. Hosted by Marie Vigouroux and Jeremy Greer, art by AlexDreamsArt, music by Jake Lionheart.

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About your hosts

Profile picture for Marie Vigouroux

Marie Vigouroux

I used to describe myself as a foodie in the heyday of Instagram food pics.
Profile picture for Jeremy Greer

Jeremy Greer

I would very much like to boop Hannibal on the nose one day.