Episode 7

Only One Bed in the Hospital

It's time for a tasty snack in between courses as we delve in S01E07 - Sorbet. We discuss the theme of performance, and how it relates to almost every character in the show.

Rude Eats is hosted by Marie Vigouroux and Jeremy Greer. Follow our YouTube channel for fun videos, episode previews, and full episodes. If the app you're using doesn't support built-in transcripts, you can find PDFs for each episode at this link.

You can hear more of Mary on her Supernatural podcast, Carrying Wayward, or her podcast about Our Flag Means Death, The Gentleman Pirate's Library. Jeremy's podcasts are collected at this website, unless you're looking for X-Men chat in which case you can use this link.

Podcast art by AlexDreamsArt, and you can find all of their links here. We encourage you to reach out to Alex if you need art commissioned, we were overwhelmingly satisfied with the level of detail and thought put into our podcast art.

Our intro theme and all music in the podcast was created by Jake Lionheart (with some help on the lyrics from Marie, Jeremy, and Autumn). Jake is a wonderful musician that can take any idea you throw at him and make it a reality. If you're looking to spruce up your podcast or your weekly DND sessions, get in touch.

Transcript
Marie Vigouroux:

I'm Marie Vigouroux.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm Jeremy Greer.

Marie Vigouroux:

And this is Rude Eats, a delicious podcast

Marie Vigouroux:

where we sink our teeth into every episode of the show

Marie Vigouroux:

Jake Lionheart (intro music): I want Will Graham, I really do

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal.

Marie Vigouroux:

and I think that we could have some fun. Then you can do

Marie Vigouroux:

anything you like. I might even go and help you catch the

Marie Vigouroux:

Shrike. I want Will Graham, I want that man for every meal and

Marie Vigouroux:

on demand. His mind shines and his body's cut. I know that he

Marie Vigouroux:

works for the FBI, but what other man has pure empathy and

Marie Vigouroux:

the ability to see my mind. Jack. What other thing have I

Marie Vigouroux:

ever asked you for besides never looking into my pantry? And I

Marie Vigouroux:

won't get that. Damn. I want Will Graham. I want him so and

Marie Vigouroux:

he really doesn't need to know what's in my meals or on my

Marie Vigouroux:

mind. I just want Will Graham to be mine. I want him, and I want

Marie Vigouroux:

him now. I said before, I don't care how. I'll give him tests.

Marie Vigouroux:

He'll draw a clock, and then his dark desires I will unlock.

Marie Vigouroux:

We'll be together, Willll and me. We'll throw some brand in

Marie Vigouroux:

the parties. We'll cut the flesh. We'll cook the meat.

Marie Vigouroux:

He'll eat the food just like me. Give me goddamn Will Graham.

Jeremy Greer:

Hi, Mary.

Marie Vigouroux:

Hi Jeremy.

Jeremy Greer:

The episode goes crazy this week.

Marie Vigouroux:

I am just so excited to talk about this with

Marie Vigouroux:

you. Like, I have been like, foaming at the mouth to not talk

Marie Vigouroux:

about it too much in DMS, because I'm just like, I need to

Marie Vigouroux:

talk about this with you.

Jeremy Greer:

Need to have it in person. Don't want to, don't

Jeremy Greer:

want to, don't want to ruin the podcast by having all of our

Jeremy Greer:

conversations in our DMS. Although, if you just send me

Jeremy Greer:

like a bunch of exclamation marks, I know that things are

Jeremy Greer:

happening.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, I did. I did send you like a few lines,

Marie Vigouroux:

I think, just like screams,

Jeremy Greer:

you were, you were kind of live blogging the

Jeremy Greer:

episode to me for a while, and it was great. I loved it. I'm

Jeremy Greer:

super excited to talk about this. I think this is one of the

Jeremy Greer:

best episodes of Hannibal. It's probably the best episode so far

Jeremy Greer:

that we've had, and so many so much stuff happens, and it's

Jeremy Greer:

going to be so much fun to dig into before we get into that. I

Jeremy Greer:

wanted to do a little bit of admin, if you don't mind

Marie Vigouroux:

of course, please.

Jeremy Greer:

So back on August 20, and this is probably coming

Jeremy Greer:

out in like 2026, or something. I'm not going to do the math,

Jeremy Greer:

but back in August 20, our friend Nell on the monster of

Jeremy Greer:

the week discord and the carrying wayward discord, a

Jeremy Greer:

listener to all of our podcasts, thank you, Nell, mentioned that

Jeremy Greer:

she had something to say about them, referring to will as high

Jeremy Greer:

functioning. And I'm just going to read this verbatim. So this

Jeremy Greer:

is, this is from Nell. "So many thoughts on the term high

Jeremy Greer:

functioning. The community increasing and increasingly,

Jeremy Greer:

people who do this research tend to use the term support needs

Jeremy Greer:

instead, so as to put the quote, unquote problem on society and

Jeremy Greer:

not on the individual. So if you're feeling uncomfortable

Jeremy Greer:

with the term high functioning when it comes to will the term

Jeremy Greer:

low support needs might feel more appropriate." And that

Jeremy Greer:

generated a whole conversation in the MOTW discord from people

Jeremy Greer:

who are on the spectrum and who there's like, there was just a

Jeremy Greer:

big conversation about it, which was super cool to read through

Jeremy Greer:

as a person who hasn't been super educated on that stuff, it

Jeremy Greer:

was very fascinating to read. So I like the idea of using low

Jeremy Greer:

support needs for will, because I think even the show sometimes

Jeremy Greer:

forget that they mentioned that he was on the spectrum in the

Jeremy Greer:

first episode, right? Like the show was like, Oh no, he's fine

Jeremy Greer:

now, but also he definitely has some support needs.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh yes, for sure, he definitely has some

Marie Vigouroux:

support needs. And I think the reason why Nell mentioned this

Marie Vigouroux:

is because I was like, oh, you know, like, I don't like the

Marie Vigouroux:

term high functioning, but I guess this is like, how the show

Marie Vigouroux:

describes him. And so Nell came in clutch with a better term

Marie Vigouroux:

that feels a lot more that does feel a lot more appropriate. So

Marie Vigouroux:

thank you so much Nell for for letting us know about that. We

Marie Vigouroux:

appreciate

Jeremy Greer:

We appreciate it.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, definitely

Jeremy Greer:

I don't remember which one of us reads the

Jeremy Greer:

episode description. Is that, you or me? I forget how this is.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm doing an eight podcast right now. So all of all of my admin

Jeremy Greer:

is so confused. What do we do?

Marie Vigouroux:

I feel like we have because I did it at one

Marie Vigouroux:

point, and then you started doing it, and then I did it

Marie Vigouroux:

again. So I can take it today. That's fine. So today we are

Marie Vigouroux:

covering Hannibal, season one, episode seven, sorbet. The BAU

Marie Vigouroux:

is called when a man is found in a hotel bathtub with his kidney

Marie Vigouroux:

removed, and Graham must determine whether this is the

Marie Vigouroux:

act of an organ harvester or if the Chesapeake Ripper has

Marie Vigouroux:

claimed his first victim in two years. Meanwhile, Crawford

Marie Vigouroux:

continues to be haunted by the discovery of Miriam Lass' arm.

Marie Vigouroux:

Dr. Bloom suspects that Crawford has become obsessed with

Marie Vigouroux:

catching the Ripper and is putting Graham in danger by

Marie Vigouroux:

making him chase the Ripper. This episode was directed by

Marie Vigouroux:

James folly sorry, written by Brian Fuller and Jesse

Marie Vigouroux:

Alexander, and it originally aired on May 9, 2013

Jeremy Greer:

Yes, so excited to talk about this one. I the

Jeremy Greer:

description does a lot here. Using the word haunted for Jack

Jeremy Greer:

Crawford is especially fun. We're gonna have a lot of fun

Jeremy Greer:

talking about that. And so, as we do on every episode the

Jeremy Greer:

podcast, we talk about the episode title, and we kind of

Jeremy Greer:

relate that to a theme. Tell me what a sorbet is Mary.

Marie Vigouroux:

So I had to do a little bit of googling about

Marie Vigouroux:

that, because I know that sorbet, ice cream and gelato,

Marie Vigouroux:

are all like separate things, right? So a sorbet is actually a

Marie Vigouroux:

frozen dessert like ice cream and gelato, but it's typically

Marie Vigouroux:

made of fruit juice or fruit puree mixed with water and

Marie Vigouroux:

sugar. And it's different from ice cream, because ice cream is

Marie Vigouroux:

typically made with like a custard base, so that's like

Marie Vigouroux:

cooked eggs with milk, and then we add cream and sugar to it. So

Marie Vigouroux:

sorbet is fruity, which I think is pretty apt for this episode

Jeremy Greer:

when we literally see Hannibal pining over will as

Jeremy Greer:

Chopin's D minor plays, Chopin's D minor plays, like Jesus

Jeremy Greer:

Christ.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh yeah. I mean, I this was so gay in the

Marie Vigouroux:

best way, like this was so fruity. I love these gay

Marie Vigouroux:

bitches. I love them so much anyway. So I still, I didn't

Marie Vigouroux:

really want fruity to be the theme of the episode, even

Marie Vigouroux:

though it really felt right. So I thought about it for a while.

Marie Vigouroux:

And then, like, when you think of sorbet, you think of like

Marie Vigouroux:

frozen, cold ice, you know, like, and since the episode also

Marie Vigouroux:

revolves around Hannibal, I assume that, like Brian fuller

Marie Vigouroux:

wanted us to make an inference there, right? So I thought about

Marie Vigouroux:

like the distance, particularly like the emotional distance that

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal creates around him, and he does that through his

Marie Vigouroux:

performance of a normal human being, which we know he is not

Marie Vigouroux:

right. And I think that given the rest of the episode, I would

Marie Vigouroux:

really like to focus on the theme of performance today.

Jeremy Greer:

What a great connection that you made

Jeremy Greer:

throughout that going from a frozen dessert to the theme of

Jeremy Greer:

performance is really, really great. Love, love those, those

Jeremy Greer:

connections Absolutely and it fits like, even in the episode,

Jeremy Greer:

like we're going to find out that Bedelia, Hannibal's own

Jeremy Greer:

psychiatrist, points out like he's wearing a person suit. He's

Jeremy Greer:

literally dressing up and putting on a performance as a as

Jeremy Greer:

a human being. And, you know, that's not the only performance

Jeremy Greer:

being happening, being made through here. So we're gonna,

Jeremy Greer:

we're gonna be able to connect this to a lot of the different

Jeremy Greer:

things that happen. And I'm, yeah, like, it's, it is a very

Jeremy Greer:

fruity episode. It's, I still find it fascinating that,

Jeremy Greer:

because, again, based on none of this relationship exists in the

Jeremy Greer:

books are in the original material, right? Like, there's

Jeremy Greer:

been there was never, to my knowledge, maybe people were

Jeremy Greer:

shipping it. And, like, there's an AO3 thing that goes back to

Jeremy Greer:

the when the books were released, I don't know. But to

Jeremy Greer:

my knowledge, there was never really any Hannibal and will,

Jeremy Greer:

like, romantically involved kind of thing at all. And so Brian

Jeremy Greer:

Fuller, to have made this decision at the outset, and then

Jeremy Greer:

to slowly build into this is just so interesting to me. And

Jeremy Greer:

then, yeah, it's just, it is a little fruity this episode,

Jeremy Greer:

sometimes literally,

Marie Vigouroux:

oh yes, exactly. And there's also the

Marie Vigouroux:

fact that, like, let's be honest, if somebody, if I was,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, at dinner and they served like, a sorbet, I would be like,

Marie Vigouroux:

This is really extra. And I feel like there's so much about this

Marie Vigouroux:

episode that's very extra. So anyway, like, I just thought

Marie Vigouroux:

that this is, I don't know I love the way they're naming

Marie Vigouroux:

their episodes, and the way that, like they're digging into

Marie Vigouroux:

themes and all that. I just, I think this is my favorite

Marie Vigouroux:

episode so far.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it's really good. It's super, super good. We

Jeremy Greer:

had a suggestion from our listeners. I don't actually know

Jeremy Greer:

who runs the account, no context monster of the week. I don't

Jeremy Greer:

know who that person is. I think I know, but I don't. I don't

Jeremy Greer:

want to dox them if they're not putting that out there. But the

Jeremy Greer:

Twitter account, no context Monster of the Week suggested

Jeremy Greer:

that we name, rename or one of our sections beat by eat instead

Jeremy Greer:

of beat by beat. So are you ready to go to our beat by

Jeremy Greer:

eatSection?

Marie Vigouroux:

I am very ready to go to our beat by eat section

Jeremy Greer:

I like how we're very both very carefully

Jeremy Greer:

enunciating that that's very fun

Marie Vigouroux:

beat by eat. It's especially hard for me

Marie Vigouroux:

because it's not my mother tongue. It's like beat by eat,

Marie Vigouroux:

you

Jeremy Greer:

you speak English better than I do. So if you've

Jeremy Greer:

ever been like, sensitive about your your ability to speak

Jeremy Greer:

English, please do not speak because you speak English way

Marie Vigouroux:

Well. Thank you. I'm technically bilingual,

Marie Vigouroux:

better than I do.

Marie Vigouroux:

but, like, it's sometimes, it's it, it's still hard, and I still

Marie Vigouroux:

hear my like, little, like tiny bit of French accent in there,

Marie Vigouroux:

and I'm like, Ah,

Jeremy Greer:

people LOVE IT people, people. Love people with

Jeremy Greer:

accents in general. I think so. I mean, look at Lana Del Rey.

Jeremy Greer:

She's taking a she's dating Cajun dude right now.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah! named Jeremy, apparently, yes

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, Jeremy Dufresne, which is the most

Jeremy Greer:

Cajun name you could possibly have. I love

Jeremy Greer:

I love that. Oh, my God,

Marie Vigouroux:

Or québécois, frankly, because I'm like that,

Marie Vigouroux:

that could be somebody from Quebec.

Jeremy Greer:

So we're going to start out at the FBI Academy

Jeremy Greer:

where Will is doing what he normally does is teaching his

Jeremy Greer:

class about the serial killer the Chesapeake River. He

Jeremy Greer:

explains that the Ripper is killing in sounders of three, so

Jeremy Greer:

three kills in the space of nine days. And he explains that a

Jeremy Greer:

sounder is a small group of pigs, which, of course, is the

Jeremy Greer:

way that will believes the Ripper sees his victims. We go

Jeremy Greer:

through I like this that they do this like they put these

Jeremy Greer:

pictures in the background. They don't focus on them too much.

Jeremy Greer:

You just see it kind of behind will. But we see pictures of the

Jeremy Greer:

rippers kills, which we actually had not seen, we haven't

Jeremy Greer:

experienced, except for the wound man kill, which is the one

Jeremy Greer:

that we saw in the previous episode, and he's going through

Jeremy Greer:

all of these. And it's just interesting to see, like,

Jeremy Greer:

they've been collecting this information for a long time, and

Jeremy Greer:

like, just how, how long Hannibal has been able to do

Jeremy Greer:

this right? And Jack walks in the room right as he's beginning

Jeremy Greer:

to explain about the Chesapeake Victor's Chesapeake Ripper's

Jeremy Greer:

last victim, which was Miriam lass, and the arm that was found

Jeremy Greer:

to two years later, after she disappeared, and he describes

Jeremy Greer:

the Ripper as consistently theatrical, which is just so

Jeremy Greer:

good.

Marie Vigouroux:

I love it so extra again, like the

Marie Vigouroux:

performance just in the word theatrical, which I love. And so

Marie Vigouroux:

already with this, like 20 second intro, I knew that this

Marie Vigouroux:

episode was going to be really good, like, there's just so much

Marie Vigouroux:

to unpack in just those few sentences. So first off, the

Marie Vigouroux:

Sounders, like, I guess it makes sense that Hannibal would or

Marie Vigouroux:

like that the Ripper would see his victims as pigs if he eats

Marie Vigouroux:

them, right? Like they're livestock to him, and I quote,

Marie Vigouroux:

not prey. And then the consistently theatrical part.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, listen, Queen Hannibal Lecter doesn't dress the way

Marie Vigouroux:

that he does. To be called anything less than consistently

Marie Vigouroux:

theatrical. And like I said earlier, like this idea of like

Marie Vigouroux:

being theatrical also hints at the idea that there's a

Marie Vigouroux:

performance going on there, right? And in the case of

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal, like, we're going to see him performing so many

Marie Vigouroux:

different things for different people throughout this episode,

Marie Vigouroux:

and we're going to see how much of a toll that takes on him,

Marie Vigouroux:

too.

Jeremy Greer:

And we're going to our theme is underlined

Jeremy Greer:

immediately in the next scene where we have this incredible

Jeremy Greer:

shot of the inside of an opera singer's throat as the camera

Jeremy Greer:

pulls out and we see basically her esophagus, her throat, her

Jeremy Greer:

tonsils, her mouth, everything. It's a really like, intense,

Jeremy Greer:

meaty shot. And as it pulls out, we see this incredibly beautiful

Jeremy Greer:

woman singing an opera song. And I'm gonna make some notes as we

Jeremy Greer:

get to certain parts. So like, this is, I don't know how to

Jeremy Greer:

pronounce any of this stuff. You might have to help me out here.

Jeremy Greer:

It's below the review section in our notes.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay, hold on. Let me scroll down. Like, oh my

Marie Vigouroux:

god.

Jeremy Greer:

It's performed by Emily Clausen. I know how to

Jeremy Greer:

pronounce that. That's okay.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh yeah. Oh yes. So the piangero la sorte,

Jeremy Greer:

I'm so glad you did that an not me. I just, I

Jeremy Greer:

Mia,

Jeremy Greer:

just wanted to mention this. I think it's, I don't know that it

Jeremy Greer:

provides a lot of insight, but I've really enjoyed spending

Jeremy Greer:

time this morning, like going to figuring out, like, what these

Jeremy Greer:

songs were, and trying to figure out if there could be any

Jeremy Greer:

connection. And this is song. This is sung from the

Jeremy Greer:

perspective of Cleopatra, who has thinks that she just lost

Jeremy Greer:

her love Cesare, and she's kind of mourning this at the same

Jeremy Greer:

time, she's losing her battle for Egypt. She partnered with

Jeremy Greer:

the Cesare to be able to capture Egypt, to be able to rule Egypt.

Jeremy Greer:

And her brother Talim, has killed cesares that she thinks,

Jeremy Greer:

and also taken over the city. So this, like, angry outburst that

Jeremy Greer:

she has, and this, the singer is incredible in the actual

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal TV show, she just has this angry look on her face that

Jeremy Greer:

is just incredible. Like, it's just so like, like, it makes you

Jeremy Greer:

want to go watch all opera all the time.

Marie Vigouroux:

I agree. I was like, You know what is, what is

Marie Vigouroux:

this song? I want to know more about it.

Jeremy Greer:

Very, very good. And, of course, this zooms into

Jeremy Greer:

his like, we see Hannibal in the in the crowd. And. Just a nice

Jeremy Greer:

little note here, kind of a connection to the books, that

Jeremy Greer:

he's sitting on an aisle seat. It's noted in the books for some

Jeremy Greer:

reason he always sits on the aisle. Yeah, just, just a nice

Jeremy Greer:

little nod. And we see him with the camera zooms into his ear as

Jeremy Greer:

he's listening to this and as it comes out. And we see his face

Jeremy Greer:

as he's literally tearing up. He's having this emotional

Jeremy Greer:

connection to this, this woman who has lost her love. And

Jeremy Greer:

again, you know, this is obviously a performance, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Because we're seeing an opera singer in this thing. But also,

Jeremy Greer:

like, we talked about it being kind of fruity. So I just wanted

Jeremy Greer:

to mention that, you know, this is somebody who believes he's

Jeremy Greer:

listening to a song from someone who believes that she lost her

Jeremy Greer:

love and her support.

Marie Vigouroux:

And it's also like, you know, yes, it's a

Marie Vigouroux:

performance, but there's, there's, there's this idea of,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, freedom through performance, right? Of when you

Marie Vigouroux:

watch the theater, when you watch movies, you also connect

Marie Vigouroux:

to these characters, you connect to to the performance that

Marie Vigouroux:

you're seeing. And so Hannibal is doing just that, right? Like

Marie Vigouroux:

he has trouble connecting to people when they're being

Marie Vigouroux:

themselves, but all of a sudden, when there's a performance, he's

Marie Vigouroux:

more able to connect. And I'm not too sure what that means for

Marie Vigouroux:

him, but I just thought that that was interesting.

Jeremy Greer:

That's so interesting because that's the

Jeremy Greer:

same way that will is, to a degree, right? He has problems

Jeremy Greer:

connecting directly to people. And maybe that's something that

Jeremy Greer:

will sees in, that Hannibal season will like from the

Jeremy Greer:

beginning, that they both have that problem connecting with

Jeremy Greer:

people one on one, but they can connect to like Will is

Jeremy Greer:

obviously connecting to the performances of all of these

Jeremy Greer:

serial killers. That's That's an incredible insight. Overall, I

Jeremy Greer:

love that. In the crowd, we also see Franklin, who we haven't

Jeremy Greer:

seen for several episodes. This is one of Hannibal's patients.

Jeremy Greer:

Franklin cannot take his eyes off of Hannibal during this

Jeremy Greer:

whole thing. Hannibal, of course, notices this and

Jeremy Greer:

completely just disregards it. And as the singer finishes up

Jeremy Greer:

the ARIA, Hannibal shoots up. He's the first one to stand up

Jeremy Greer:

and applaud, and Franklin mimics him, and we see his companion

Jeremy Greer:

Tobias, kind of look at him like, you nerd. What are you

Jeremy Greer:

doing? You're being so incredibly awkward right now.

Marie Vigouroux:

I just want to highlight before we move on to

Marie Vigouroux:

anything else that like this is a concert for hunger relief. I

Marie Vigouroux:

thought was just so diabolical, like, I loved it. I was like,

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, of course, it's for hunger relief. So that means that

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal is a patron of an organization for hunger relief.

Jeremy Greer:

It's so funny. It's so funny.

Jeremy Greer:

It's

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, my God,

Jeremy Greer:

the irony.

Marie Vigouroux:

Diabolical. Yes!

Jeremy Greer:

outside of one of the attendees knows Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

socially, and she's begging him to host another dinner party.

Jeremy Greer:

Have you seen him cook? It's a whole show, and basically

Jeremy Greer:

demanding that he host another one. There's some lines here I

Jeremy Greer:

didn't write down that I thought were kind of interesting, where

Jeremy Greer:

he talks about, you know, you can't, you can't just make up

Jeremy Greer:

the feast. The feast has to come to you and you the feast is

Jeremy Greer:

something that you eat to live and things like that. I think

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal just likes talking about food at some point. Like,

Jeremy Greer:

like, okay, okay, I get it. Girl, like, we get, we get what

Jeremy Greer:

you're going for

Marie Vigouroux:

And also this, you know, this is my our flag

Marie Vigouroux:

means death, like, brain rot, but like this idea of dinner as

Marie Vigouroux:

pageantry, right? Again, very extra, like, I love him and, and

Marie Vigouroux:

something that I thought was interesting too is like the

Marie Vigouroux:

attendee says that it's been a long time since he he's cooked

Marie Vigouroux:

for her, right? And Hannibal says that he will once

Marie Vigouroux:

inspiration strikes. So we get the feeling that, like, maybe

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal's been bored lately, probably from having to cool

Marie Vigouroux:

down all of his killing activities after killing Miriam

Marie Vigouroux:

Lass two years ago, right? So that's something to keep in

Marie Vigouroux:

mind. And it's also this idea that like inspiration and art.

Marie Vigouroux:

So like he sees his cooking as an art form,

Jeremy Greer:

right, as a creative endeavor, right? Yeah,

Jeremy Greer:

and he'll say later that he, like, transferred his passion

Jeremy Greer:

for anatomy into the culinary arts. Like, this is, this is

Jeremy Greer:

literally a passion for him. And you're right, like, it's

Jeremy Greer:

probably been a while, because it's been two years since they

Jeremy Greer:

found any known victims of the Chesapeake ripper. So it's been

Jeremy Greer:

two years since he's harvested a bunch of meat, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, it's also like, it kind of got me

Marie Vigouroux:

wondering, like, has he like, what's been happening in these

Marie Vigouroux:

two years? Like, has he just been cooling off, like, not

Marie Vigouroux:

wanting to draw too much attention, or has he just been

Marie Vigouroux:

like, kind of in a rut? Is is been like, is my question,

Marie Vigouroux:

because then that could imply that, like, meeting will, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

reignited his passion, right, which, you know, yeah, fruity.

Marie Vigouroux:

Love that

Jeremy Greer:

and Tobias arrive. He Franklin, rather rudely

Jeremy Greer:

inserts himself into the conversation to introduce

Jeremy Greer:

Tobias. Hannibal tries to handle this, like, I think, in a very

Jeremy Greer:

kind of, uh. Almost snobbish manner of being like, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

because the lady that he's talking to this demanding the

Jeremy Greer:

dinner party is like, how do you two know each other? And

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal's like, you know, there should be some mystery. And

Jeremy Greer:

Franklin can't just help but blurt out, like, I'm one of his

Jeremy Greer:

patients. And Tobias points out that Franklin was more

Jeremy Greer:

interested in Hannibal than he was interested in the

Jeremy Greer:

performance. And Hannibal is like, that's cool. Good to meet

Jeremy Greer:

you, see you later. Like, just it kind of summarily dismisses

Jeremy Greer:

the two of them in a very polite way.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, that it was so awkward. I loved it. I

Marie Vigouroux:

love how awkward. Like, Oh no, he's and, okay, so there's going

Marie Vigouroux:

to be a conversation later about that. But when I saw this, I

Marie Vigouroux:

figured that Franklin and Tobias were a couple. That was my

Marie Vigouroux:

immediate assumption

Jeremy Greer:

sure.

Marie Vigouroux:

So I'm just gonna say that right. I think

Marie Vigouroux:

that Franklin, you

Jeremy Greer:

would be right in I think, I think anybody

Jeremy Greer:

watching this would assume that

Marie Vigouroux:

right exactly, especially Tobias being, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

more interested in you than in the performance, you know, like

Jeremy Greer:

kinda jealous Exactly.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, that's jealous boyfriend, and I get it,

Marie Vigouroux:

because Franklin was definitely he wasn't acting right, like I

Marie Vigouroux:

wouldn't be happy if I was with him there, you know.

Jeremy Greer:

Well, don't worry, we're gonna learn a lot more

Jeremy Greer:

about Franklin and Tobias relationship, even in the next

Jeremy Greer:

episode, maybe Hannibal ends this by saying, Who's hungry to

Jeremy Greer:

everybody and causing just a bunch of laughter, which is very

Jeremy Greer:

funny. Like, it's a good joke, I guess, like, good job. And he

Jeremy Greer:

just can't help himself, right? Like, that's the, that's the

Jeremy Greer:

thing about this. He just can't help himself from doing this.

Marie Vigouroux:

I feel like Hannibal is kind of like, okay,

Marie Vigouroux:

so in the relationship that we have, like he is the you where,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, you can say things that are like, you can double speak

Marie Vigouroux:

to the listeners

Jeremy Greer:

yes.

Marie Vigouroux:

So like, you can tell me something that is

Marie Vigouroux:

gonna go way over my head, but listeners are gonna be like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

can't believe he just said that, because you know what's going to

Marie Vigouroux:

happen. And it sort of feels like this is what's happening

Marie Vigouroux:

here, where Hannibal is like, who's hungry? So to everybody,

Marie Vigouroux:

it's like, oh, he's hungry because it's a hunger relief

Marie Vigouroux:

thing. Ha, ha, ha, bad joke. But then for us, it's like,

Marie Vigouroux:

chilling, because he's just saw these people, and he's, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

That was rude. Who's hungry, and we know he's a cannibal, so,

Marie Vigouroux:

yeah,

Jeremy Greer:

so he's probably already thinking about eating

Jeremy Greer:

Franklin at some point.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, exactly. And, yeah, exactly, yeah. I

Marie Vigouroux:

just, I just kind of love that. Like, like, you said, he can't

Marie Vigouroux:

help himself, like, so regardless of the performance

Marie Vigouroux:

that he's putting on for others, like, his true nature is always

Marie Vigouroux:

creeping back up.

Jeremy Greer:

He just lives his life like he's on a TV show.

Jeremy Greer:

He's constantly put together, like, doing all these fancy

Jeremy Greer:

things. Like, he's got everything ready to go with no

Jeremy Greer:

preparation. Like, it's like watching Martha Stewart, like,

Jeremy Greer:

cook at dinner, and she's just, like, brings it out of the oven

Jeremy Greer:

in two minutes, right? She's minutes, right? She's like,

Jeremy Greer:

okay, an hour and a half later, the casserole is finished. Or

Jeremy Greer:

like, it's just constant performing. We finally get our

Jeremy Greer:

intro, and then we go over to Jack. As he's entering the

Jeremy Greer:

morgue at the FBI headquarters, he begins to hear a phone ring

Jeremy Greer:

coming from one of the body drawers, and as he opens it, he

Jeremy Greer:

finds Miriam lasses arm holding the phone that is ringing, which

Jeremy Greer:

is disturbing by itself. But of course, the what ends up

Jeremy Greer:

happening is Jack awakes because his actual phone, in real life,

Jeremy Greer:

is beginning to ring. And I think, you know, we talked a lot

Jeremy Greer:

about unraveling last last time, and I think this is just another

Jeremy Greer:

example of that, of just him come becoming a little unraveled

Jeremy Greer:

at the Ripper is poking at him right as Will's about to say,

Marie Vigouroux:

I know like and the fact that he's having

Marie Vigouroux:

nightmares like that, he that the Ripper is getting into his

Marie Vigouroux:

head the same way that he is getting into wills. I mean, it

Marie Vigouroux:

has to be bad news for the FBI. Just that can't be good. I love

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal, but that can't be good. Possibly

Jeremy Greer:

Can't possibly be good

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, no, exactly.

Jeremy Greer:

It's a case. And so will picks, excuse me, Jack

Jeremy Greer:

picks Will up and says, you know that we found this guy. He's got

Jeremy Greer:

his liver pulled out. There's some other damages. We think it

Jeremy Greer:

could be a ripper case, but don't worry, you're gonna get

Jeremy Greer:

the crime scene fresh. And Will says Fresh as a daisy, like he's

Jeremy Greer:

kind of remarking on this term fresh. And they discuss the

Jeremy Greer:

Ripper. And Will says that Jack wants him wrapped around the

Jeremy Greer:

Ripper so much that he won't go back to class, that he will just

Jeremy Greer:

have it'll the the idea of the Ripper will consume him so much

Jeremy Greer:

that he'll have to catch the Ripper before he can go back to

Jeremy Greer:

his normal life. And he warns Jack. And I love, I love the

Jeremy Greer:

delivery on this line where he says, Don't let the Ripper stir

Jeremy Greer:

you up. And he specifically points out, like the reason that

Jeremy Greer:

the Ripper gave you Miriam's arm was for was specifically to poke

Jeremy Greer:

at you, to make you, to trip you up basically.

Marie Vigouroux:

And Jack responds with something that I

Marie Vigouroux:

found to be really heartbreaking, because he goes,

Marie Vigouroux:

Why not the rest of her? Yeah, it's a bummer. And again, like

Marie Vigouroux:

for us, knowing that Hannibal is a cannibal, it's like, Oh, Jack.

Marie Vigouroux:

Jack, oh, oh, poor baby. Let me hug you like

Jeremy Greer:

it's probably one of like three worst outcomes

Jeremy Greer:

that you could have for one of your, you know, mentees, right?

Jeremy Greer:

But in this, in this kind of environment, Jack is convinced

Jeremy Greer:

that this is the first of three Ripper victims and they're going

Jeremy Greer:

to he sees this as his opportunity to catch the Ripper,

Jeremy Greer:

which, of course, last time when this happened, he not only lost

Jeremy Greer:

the Ripper, he lost Miriam. He doesn't intend to waste this

Jeremy Greer:

opportunity. They get to the crime scene where nobody has

Jeremy Greer:

touched the body, except for maybe Beverly and z

Marie Vigouroux:

i just love that Jack was like, you're gonna

Marie Vigouroux:

get the crime get the crime scene fresh. I've been Beverly,

Marie Vigouroux:

like I touched the body, and I may have touched it too. Oh my

Marie Vigouroux:

god. You guys really are children.

Jeremy Greer:

They describe the surgery to remove the liver and

Jeremy Greer:

the heart as performed and then unperformed. And I, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

this was before we wrote notes. I was just watching this. It's

Jeremy Greer:

really interesting that they use that, that word, as we are

Jeremy Greer:

creating performance as a theme throughout this episode.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah and I think that's also really cool,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? This idea of surgery as a performance, because we do think

Marie Vigouroux:

about surgery like he performed surgery, or she performed

Marie Vigouroux:

surgery, so I just love when the theme shows up like that,

Jeremy Greer:

If you think about like, you know, in the medical

Jeremy Greer:

profession, like you were sometimes performing surgery for

Jeremy Greer:

an audience of people who are watching how you do it, right,

Marie Vigouroux:

of course, yeah

Jeremy Greer:

which is fascinating, too, this guy's

Jeremy Greer:

kidney is missing, and the killer went for his heart. But,

Jeremy Greer:

of course, but the heart is still there. So it's time for

Jeremy Greer:

will to go into Hunter vision mode. When the pendulum comes

Jeremy Greer:

out, he begins in the main part of the house. He sees the moose

Jeremy Greer:

walk through

Marie Vigouroux:

Jared!

Jeremy Greer:

We call this. We call this the stag for so long,

Jeremy Greer:

and then you make one moose joke, and now it's the moose for

Jeremy Greer:

And now it's Sam Winchester. What is Sam Winchester doing

Jeremy Greer:

life.

Jeremy Greer:

here?

Jeremy Greer:

Why is six foot nine Sam Winchester walking through the

Jeremy Greer:

set of Hannibal right now

Marie Vigouroux:

with his very, very big jeans

Jeremy Greer:

I bet there's some, some supernatural slash

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal fiction out there, huh? Like the boys are hunting

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal.

Marie Vigouroux:

There has to be right?

Jeremy Greer:

There has to be. God Hannibal would despise Dean

Jeremy Greer:

Winchester just absolutely, or he would just so completely

Jeremy Greer:

break Dean Winchester, right? That would also be super fun.

Jeremy Greer:

Anyway, let's not talk though I'm going down a maybe revealing

Jeremy Greer:

too much about myself.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like he would, he Yes, absolutely, he would be

Marie Vigouroux:

really, I think he would find him really rude, but also, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

there would be a little like, interest, right? Like he'd be

Marie Vigouroux:

like, what, what, what? What are you

Jeremy Greer:

demons are often the collection of evils in our

Jeremy Greer:

minds. Tell me, Dean, what evil do you have in your mind? What

Jeremy Greer:

evil Are you hunting? We should write this. If it's not already

Jeremy Greer:

written, we should, we should collaborate and write this.

Marie Vigouroux:

I Yeah, oh my god, okay, all right, making a

Marie Vigouroux:

note.

Jeremy Greer:

I'll find a I'll find a comic artist, and we

Jeremy Greer:

will, we will make a comic book out of this. This would be

Jeremy Greer:

brilliant. I just, want tell me, Dean. And then you just

Marie Vigouroux:

And then you just see Sam Winchester with

Marie Vigouroux:

antlers, walking through the room

Jeremy Greer:

just in the background like nobody noticed

Jeremy Greer:

this. He's just like, we're gonna get into this. So will

Jeremy Greer:

narrates this, as he usually does. He says that the victim

Jeremy Greer:

woke suddenly from a deep sedation, and they begin to

Jeremy Greer:

fight. Will throws this dude in the bathroom, and that's when he

Jeremy Greer:

realizes this man's heart is seizing up. So will digs into

Jeremy Greer:

this man's chest with the scalpel, spreads his ribs and is

Jeremy Greer:

holding his heart in his hand. And then this is throughout all

Jeremy Greer:

of this, like the music is really intense, and we see this

Jeremy Greer:

like thumping out. Like thumping heartbeat throughout and it's

Jeremy Greer:

going faster and faster. As will, shoves his hands in this

Jeremy Greer:

man's chest and holds his heart. He realizes that the killer was

Jeremy Greer:

massaging this heart to save this man. And as we as he

Jeremy Greer:

realizes that, like the heartbeat and the soundtrack

Jeremy Greer:

slows down to a more normal rate. So he's literally saving

Jeremy Greer:

this man's life. He comes back to our world and calls for Jack,

Jeremy Greer:

and is like it tells him what he saw, and says, would the Ripper

Jeremy Greer:

do that? Probably not right, for what we know about the Ripper

Jeremy Greer:

probably would not do this.

Marie Vigouroux:

No, certainly not.

Jeremy Greer:

There's a brief commercial break, and then the

Jeremy Greer:

scene is Jack and will in the bathroom, and z is standing in

Jeremy Greer:

the doorway, basically insisting that it's got to be the Ripper,

Jeremy Greer:

like there's he says there's 22 signature components. And will

Jeremy Greer:

disagrees and just kind of casually walks over and just

Jeremy Greer:

closes the door in the man's face, which is just really

Jeremy Greer:

funny.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, and honestly, like, I can't remember

Marie Vigouroux:

which one came out first, if it was Sherlock, or if it was this,

Marie Vigouroux:

but, like, this is a scene that is directly pulled or, like, you

Marie Vigouroux:

know, it's, it's a Sherlock moment, literally, where

Marie Vigouroux:

Sherlock Holmes in the BBC, Sherlock, like, closes the door

Marie Vigouroux:

on one of the ERTS called Anderson, and he's like, yes,

Marie Vigouroux:

Anderson, and just closes the door because Anderson is just

Marie Vigouroux:

being annoying and rude and wrong. And those are things that

Marie Vigouroux:

Sherlock absolutely hates.

Jeremy Greer:

There's actually a note in, I thought it was the

Jeremy Greer:

wiki, like the fandom wiki page that I saw this that mentioned

Jeremy Greer:

that, and I had never, I must. I don't remember. I didn't see, I

Jeremy Greer:

didn't watch the last season of Sherlock, but I watched the

Jeremy Greer:

first two seasons, and I didn't remember that at all. But I must

Jeremy Greer:

have been on the IMD page. Someone mentions it very

Jeremy Greer:

specifically, of like, oh, this is definitely a call to

Jeremy Greer:

Sherlock.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's how it felt! it's in the first episode,

Marie Vigouroux:

the very first episode, I think, like, the pink, the study in

Marie Vigouroux:

pink, actually, it's so good. It's so good. I loved the first

Marie Vigouroux:

few seasons of Sherlock, and this was like this again,

Marie Vigouroux:

tickled my, tickled my, my heart, this time, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Massaged my, my cold, dead heart.

Jeremy Greer:

The IMDb trivia page notes that great detecting

Jeremy Greer:

minds both behaving, both misbehaving impolitely alike,

Jeremy Greer:

which is a good sign. Jack insists at this point, or excuse

Jeremy Greer:

me, Will says, I'm, I think this is just a kid or a doctor

Jeremy Greer:

student just trying to make money on the like a black market

Jeremy Greer:

kind of thing. The Ripper. You know, he's this guy who left the

Jeremy Greer:

man in church with his tongue ripped out and used as a

Jeremy Greer:

bookmark in the Bible that he was reading, which is a

Jeremy Greer:

reference to one of the Hannibal kills in the books, which is

Jeremy Greer:

kind of cool. and Jack says, we'll catch the river. Or,

Jeremy Greer:

excuse me, Will says we'll catch the river Ripper. And Jack says,

Jeremy Greer:

I want to catch him now, and it's kind of spooky.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, it is spooky because he openly says

Marie Vigouroux:

that, like, he's basically going to kill him when he catches him,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, I think he says something like, you're not going to be

Marie Vigouroux:

able to shoot him, because I will do that first, right? And

Marie Vigouroux:

like, Listen, this is why I feel that Jack should have been

Marie Vigouroux:

pulled from this case, because it's clearly too personal for

Marie Vigouroux:

him, but it does make for great TV, because, like, of course, I

Marie Vigouroux:

don't want him shooting my little Meow, meow, don't shoot

Marie Vigouroux:

him. I love him.

Jeremy Greer:

Will. God damn it. I'm gonna keep doing it. I'm

Jeremy Greer:

sorry, everybody. I'm sorry. I don't know what it is. It's

Jeremy Greer:

like, if I do it once, the whole episode is cursed, but if I

Jeremy Greer:

don't manage the first if I can get over the hump, then I'm good

Jeremy Greer:

for the whole episode. It's so weird. Jack asked Will how he

Jeremy Greer:

sees the Ripper. And Will says he sees the Ripper as one of

Jeremy Greer:

these pitiful things born in a hospital that they don't even

Jeremy Greer:

put on machines. They just let it die. Except he doesn't die.

Jeremy Greer:

He just looks normal. And this is all dialog ripped directly

Jeremy Greer:

from Thomas Harris from the books. This is exactly the

Jeremy Greer:

thing. Yeah, it's like live line for line, which I thought was

Jeremy Greer:

cool.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh my god. And I think one thing that I really,

Marie Vigouroux:

really loved is when he says, nobody can tell what he is

Jeremy Greer:

so good because of the performance that he's

Jeremy Greer:

putting on right like nobody sees the real man. And of

Jeremy Greer:

course, as the classic Hannibal move, we're gonna cut directly

Jeremy Greer:

to Hannibal after this.

Marie Vigouroux:

I love this. I love this so much again, like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

find that the editing of this is just so brilliant, the writing

Marie Vigouroux:

everything is great, right? So this is like, what will just

Marie Vigouroux:

said to Jack, is basically what Miriam lass had also told Jack

Marie Vigouroux:

before. Right? It was much less poetic when she said it, but she

Marie Vigouroux:

did say that, you know, he had no remorse, but he isn't a

Marie Vigouroux:

drifter, and he doesn't have a history of trouble with the law.

Marie Vigouroux:

So I'm sort of like back to thinking about how I think that

Marie Vigouroux:

Jack picked Will Graham to work on this case specifically

Marie Vigouroux:

because he was so different from Miriam, but then he's now

Marie Vigouroux:

hearing him come to the same conclusions that she did two

Marie Vigouroux:

years ago. Like that must be really hard on him, and we're

Marie Vigouroux:

going to see that he kind of like mixes them up in his mind

Marie Vigouroux:

at some point soon in this episode.

Jeremy Greer:

And we, you know, Alana is going to talk about

Jeremy Greer:

this in a little while too, just like Jack's lenience and

Jeremy Greer:

reliance upon will, to Will's detriment, and also obvious,

Jeremy Greer:

obviously to Miriam's detriment, like, hopefully, will doesn't

Jeremy Greer:

get his arm cut off right? Like That would be horrible,

Jeremy Greer:

hopefully, hopefully. But in Hannibal's office, it's time for

Jeremy Greer:

Franklin's appointments. You could tell he's excited to talk

Jeremy Greer:

about Hannibal as he sits on the edge of his seat and tells

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal like, oh, I kind of thought you would be at this

Jeremy Greer:

performance. And I tried to get your attention, and it didn't

Jeremy Greer:

work, but I could tell that you knew I was trying, and Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

is you could tell he's almost disgusted by Franklin.

Jeremy Greer:

Throughout this entire conversation, it's, it's got to

Jeremy Greer:

be pretty miserable for Franklin to be honest with you. And he

Jeremy Greer:

tries to say, like, hey, you know they would be unethical for

Jeremy Greer:

us to acknowledge one another in our relationship outside of this

Jeremy Greer:

room. And because you know you're you're a patient,

Marie Vigouroux:

it's especially unethical for Hannibal to point

Marie Vigouroux:

him out as a patient, right? Like the patients can say, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

because it belongs to them, right? Like they, they they're

Marie Vigouroux:

not bound by confidentiality about their own life. But like

Marie Vigouroux:

therapists, psychiatrists, doctors are bound by

Marie Vigouroux:

confidentiality. Like a doctor cannot point out, this is my

Marie Vigouroux:

patient, but a patient can say, this is my doctor,

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, I made a my therapist moved on, so I had to

Jeremy Greer:

find a new therapist, and she was telling me this. I made a

Jeremy Greer:

joke at the end. It's like, oh, well, you know, we can be

Jeremy Greer:

Facebook friends now. And she was like, No, the ethics. I was

Jeremy Greer:

like, Oh, okay. And because we live in

Marie Vigouroux:

that's a good therapist!

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, because we live in a cursed world, I open

Jeremy Greer:

up like Facebook, and then my suggested friends, her profile

Jeremy Greer:

picture shows up for the first time, and like, never, has never

Jeremy Greer:

showed up before, and like, the year that I've been going to and

Jeremy Greer:

I was like, this is just weird. Facebook, I don't need you

Jeremy Greer:

listening to these conversations.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh my god, I hate this so much. Facebook

Marie Vigouroux:

listens to you.

Jeremy Greer:

I know it's just not it's not fun. Franklin

Jeremy Greer:

desperately wants to be friends with Hannibal. And he even says,

Jeremy Greer:

like, it makes me sad that I have to pay to see you. And

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal is just growing more and more frustrated through this

Jeremy Greer:

conversations. And yeah, like, you just Franklin. Like, just

Jeremy Greer:

Franklin,

Marie Vigouroux:

I know I mean, this is like, this gave me major

Marie Vigouroux:

secondhand embarrassment, like the office level of secondhand

Marie Vigouroux:

embarrassment. Like, I just again, oh, Franklin. Like, you

Marie Vigouroux:

need better boundaries, you know, like, because even if

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal wasn't a cannibal, like, this is just so awkward,

Marie Vigouroux:

so so awkward. Like, you can tell that Hannibal is not having

Marie Vigouroux:

it. Like, let it go. Just say you're sorry and move on. Like,

Marie Vigouroux:

find a different therapist.

Jeremy Greer:

And it's different than the way that he was with

Jeremy Greer:

Bella, right? Which is the, really, the only time we've seen

Jeremy Greer:

him in therapy mode, besides Franklin. And with Bella, he's

Jeremy Greer:

very patient. He has insight, and he obviously, like, is

Jeremy Greer:

trying to manipulate her so he can close the check, so he can

Jeremy Greer:

eventually eat every can eventually eat everybody in the

Jeremy Greer:

FBI. But here he could tell he's just, like, dismissive, almost.

Jeremy Greer:

And it's, it's just really, it's just, it's like you said, it's

Jeremy Greer:

very awkward. It gets even worse when Franklin describes crying,

Jeremy Greer:

listening to Michael Jackson and beginning to cry, not because

Jeremy Greer:

he's dead, but because, now that he's dead, Franklin won't be

Jeremy Greer:

there. Can't be his friend, and if he was Michael Jackson's

Jeremy Greer:

friend, he says, I would be able to save him. I'd be able to, you

Jeremy Greer:

know, I'd be able to save him from what he did to himself. And

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal says, like he has a question, like, what would your

Jeremy Greer:

part of this friendship be like? What would you gain from this

Jeremy Greer:

friendship? And Franklin says, I would just get would just get to

Jeremy Greer:

touch greatness, which is what he's he sees in Hannibal that

Jeremy Greer:

he's reaching out to, even though he's responding to maybe

Jeremy Greer:

the worst kind of greatness that has ever been so,

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, so Hannibal, first off, is just so

Marie Vigouroux:

unimpressed when Franklin says, Sorry. I just think this is so

Marie Vigouroux:

funny, like, because Franklin says that he's feeling like

Marie Vigouroux:

crying over Michael Jackson, and, like, we saw him tearing up

Marie Vigouroux:

over like an opera piece by Handel, and Franklin is talking

Marie Vigouroux:

about pop music. And like, you can just tell that Hannibal is

Marie Vigouroux:

just so insulted that Franklin says that, like, they love the

Marie Vigouroux:

same things that would make great, great friends. Like, dare

Marie Vigouroux:

I say, he finds him rude,

Jeremy Greer:

of course.

Marie Vigouroux:

But there's, there's, like, another thing

Marie Vigouroux:

that I was really fascinated with in this moment, um,

Marie Vigouroux:

especially on my first watch. And it's how, like, Franklin

Marie Vigouroux:

basically says that if he had had been friends with Michael

Marie Vigouroux:

Jackson, like he could have helped save him from himself.

Marie Vigouroux:

And I sent you a DM about this, and you didn't like it, but I

Marie Vigouroux:

said, you and I are kind of like Franklin,

Jeremy Greer:

I don't like that

Marie Vigouroux:

because we both think, we both think that the

Marie Vigouroux:

same thing about Hannibal, really, like, I can fix him, no,

Marie Vigouroux:

really, I can

Jeremy Greer:

I can fix him. No, just take it. I can do it.

Marie Vigouroux:

But Daddy, I love him.

Jeremy Greer:

Have you? Have you seen American Psycho?

Marie Vigouroux:

I haven't.

Jeremy Greer:

Okay, not. I'm not one of those dudes that holds up

Jeremy Greer:

American Psycho. It was like one of his favorite movies or

Jeremy Greer:

something. But there's a, there's a famous speech in that

Jeremy Greer:

where as the main character is about to kill some some people,

Jeremy Greer:

he talks about Huey Lewis, in the news, he goes into this,

Jeremy Greer:

like, really in depth musical analysis of why it's one of the

Jeremy Greer:

most important albums of the of the decade. And at the same

Jeremy Greer:

time, he's, like, covered in plastic andaxe murdering people,

Jeremy Greer:

right? Like, it's kind of a fascinating scene.

Marie Vigouroux:

Excellent.

Jeremy Greer:

Yes, I agree. I know what I just what I was

Jeremy Greer:

watching this and listen. Franklin talk about Michael

Jeremy Greer:

Jackson. I was reminded of that scene. I was wondering what how

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal would feel about him talking to him, because, like,

Jeremy Greer:

you're right, that he's insulted because there Franklin is

Jeremy Greer:

comparing, like, pop music to this, this opera and but I think

Jeremy Greer:

like, if Franklin could sell like, if Franklin could speak

Jeremy Greer:

about Michael Jackson's music, he could sell it to Hannibal as

Jeremy Greer:

being powerful, but it's not about the music, right? It's

Jeremy Greer:

completely about something different. It's about this

Jeremy Greer:

relationship that He's invented in his head. And that's that's

Marie Vigouroux:

but that's the thing, I think Hannibal also,

Marie Vigouroux:

fascinating to me,

Marie Vigouroux:

like in his performance of a human being, right? Of a quote,

Marie Vigouroux:

unquote, normal human being, also, like, tends to gravitate

Marie Vigouroux:

towards like, very high brow stuff, whereas like, we tend to

Marie Vigouroux:

think about pop music as lower brow than like, than than opera.

Marie Vigouroux:

And I kind of wonder how much of that is because he's trying to

Marie Vigouroux:

be somebody to present the face of somebody that he's not really

Marie Vigouroux:

and so I wonder how he would react if somebody were to

Marie Vigouroux:

explain it, like, on an emotional level, like what it

Marie Vigouroux:

means to like Michael Jackson's music

Jeremy Greer:

I bet will have some garbage opinions about

Jeremy Greer:

Music, man, like, he's probably like, no, no, no, no. Hannibal,

Jeremy Greer:

like, seriously, like, arms wide open is one of the anthems of

Jeremy Greer:

the 2000s and we need to listen to it together. Like He's six

Jeremy Greer:

feet from the edge. Hannibal, He's six feet he doesn't know,

Jeremy Greer:

listen to me. Man, it's powerful. And Hannibal is just

Jeremy Greer:

like, My God, why do I love this man?

Marie Vigouroux:

But Hannibal makes allowances for will, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

we'll, we'll see that later, but he makes allowances for will

Marie Vigouroux:

that he doesn't make for other people.

Jeremy Greer:

Oh, yeah, and we, actually, we've already seen

Jeremy Greer:

that, right? With the when Hannibal smelled him and was

Jeremy Greer:

like, What is this aftershave that you're using? Like, it

Jeremy Greer:

turned him off, but like, he was, he still allowed it, right?

Jeremy Greer:

He still It wasn't off putting to him, or maybe it was off

Jeremy Greer:

putting but like he still accepted it. I guess we should

Jeremy Greer:

say

Marie Vigouroux:

he's, I think this is him thinking, like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

can fix him. No, really, I can. He's like, I can give him a

Marie Vigouroux:

better after shave

Jeremy Greer:

the soundtrack to the show. We're gonna cut from

Jeremy Greer:

here to our girl, Gillian Anderson. She is playing the

Jeremy Greer:

character of she's not named in this episode, but Bedia du Mari,

Jeremy Greer:

M, a, u r, i e r. Am I saying that right?

Marie Vigouroux:

DuMaurier?

Jeremy Greer:

There you go. And before we even get into this

Jeremy Greer:

character, or Gillian's performance, or anything that

Jeremy Greer:

happens, I want to just mention real quick that they originally

Jeremy Greer:

meant to cast Angela Lansbury in this role. I can't imagine

Marie Vigouroux:

what a different vibe

Jeremy Greer:

what a huge different vibe. And for those of

Jeremy Greer:

you out there that know everything that is gonna happen

Jeremy Greer:

with the Bedelia during the events of Hannibal, like just, I

Jeremy Greer:

just want you to picture Angela Lansbury in those roles and just

Jeremy Greer:

get the biggest fucking laugh, like I did, because I love

Jeremy Greer:

Angela Lansbury. I think she's probably one of the has she

Jeremy Greer:

died? Is she dead? I don't even know if she's alive anymore.

Marie Vigouroux:

I don't know. I don't know. I think of her as

Marie Vigouroux:

permanently alive.

Jeremy Greer:

no, oh no, no. She passed two years ago, october 22

Jeremy Greer:

but she's probably one of the greatest actors, actors of our

Jeremy Greer:

generation. But some of the stuff that happens on the show

Jeremy Greer:

would be really weird to see, you know, grandma, murder

Jeremy Greer:

writer, doing some of this stuff.

Marie Vigouroux:

So for for transparency, I do. I knew that

Marie Vigouroux:

Gillian was going to be on this show, and I know I had heard

Marie Vigouroux:

like her character name before, and I also know that she might

Marie Vigouroux:

not be a great person. But again, like, I feel like that's

Marie Vigouroux:

kind of like what the show is. Like, there are no great people

Marie Vigouroux:

on this show, so like, but I do, like, that's what I know, just

Marie Vigouroux:

so that people are aware of, like, what I know.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, I would, I would go so far as to say, like,

Jeremy Greer:

there's no, there's definitely protagonists, but there's no

Jeremy Greer:

heroes on this show, right, which I think is super

Jeremy Greer:

interesting. There's, there's maybe one or two, and we will

Jeremy Greer:

talk about them as we get to them

Marie Vigouroux:

but anyway, she is so beautiful,

Jeremy Greer:

heartbreakingly gorgeous,

Marie Vigouroux:

such a vision.

Jeremy Greer:

I mean, just like, yes, yeah, I'd like, Have you

Jeremy Greer:

ever, this is such a weird pull. Have you ever seen the Reddit

Jeremy Greer:

post where it's like, you know, if you could go back in time.

Jeremy Greer:

What would you do? Like, what would you go back and what would

Jeremy Greer:

you want to change? And like, one of the first posts, and

Jeremy Greer:

like, so highly upvoted, is this man who talks about, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

I've lost my wife to cancer. She was the most beautiful woman in

Jeremy Greer:

the world. I just, I would go back and just spend more time

Jeremy Greer:

with her. I just, I miss her every single day. And the the

Jeremy Greer:

first post in response is, I also choose that guy's dead

Jeremy Greer:

is. I mean, she is, like, she opens the door and it's like,

Jeremy Greer:

wife. Just she is so heartbreakingly beautiful. And

Jeremy Greer:

the reason I'm thinking about that is like, this is like, if

Jeremy Greer:

you're this is the ultimate, like, dead ex wife. She just

Jeremy Greer:

looks that heartbreakingly beautiful, like in every action

Jeremy Greer:

movie where the, you know, the main star gets motivated by his

Jeremy Greer:

dead ex wife. It's this, this image, this beautiful woman that

Jeremy Greer:

has this heartbreaking face. So anyway, I'm sorry that was, that

Jeremy Greer:

was a long rant to talk about how beautiful Gillian Anderson

Jeremy Greer:

you know, like the My heart skipped a beat,

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, she has that effect on people.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, absolutely. And especially like

Marie Vigouroux:

in this part where she's, like, so confident and just so like,

Marie Vigouroux:

oh, okay, okay.

Jeremy Greer:

another thing I want to mention is that this is

Jeremy Greer:

a wholly created character for the show, so this has not ever

Jeremy Greer:

been anything in the books or the previous movies, which is

Jeremy Greer:

fantastic because this is Hannibal's psychiatrist, and

Jeremy Greer:

they sit down, and they begin to have a conversation. And much

Jeremy Greer:

like any conversation in Hannibal where there's therapy

Jeremy Greer:

happening, it's almost impossible to keep up with all

Jeremy Greer:

of the incredible writing. She says that, you know, these

Jeremy Greer:

sessions generally go better when she's perfectly honest.

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal says, I'm I'm being honest. And she goes not

Jeremy Greer:

perfectly, which is just, I just love the verbal sparring and all

Jeremy Greer:

of this. She describes talking to a version of Hannibal, and

Jeremy Greer:

she hopes that what she says gets to, gets behind that, and

Jeremy Greer:

it gets to because he's wearing a well tailored person suit. And

Jeremy Greer:

again, this gets back to our theme of performance, like I

Jeremy Greer:

mentioned earlier, like this is him pretending to be a normal

Jeremy Greer:

human person and going to psychiatry. But she recognizes

Jeremy Greer:

the fact that this is all fake, but she's still trying to talk

Jeremy Greer:

to whatever or whoever it is behind that suit.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, she said something about like, how she

Marie Vigouroux:

hopes that the real you gets what he needs, kind of thing.

Marie Vigouroux:

And that's making me think that, like she's basically the that we

Marie Vigouroux:

see right as the audience. She's basically the first person to

Marie Vigouroux:

see Hannibal's performance, even though, at this point it seems

Marie Vigouroux:

like she doesn't necessarily see through it, like she can't quite

Marie Vigouroux:

tell what's behind it. Or maybe she doesn't, we just don't, or I

Marie Vigouroux:

just don't know it yet. But at this point in time, it feels

Marie Vigouroux:

like she may not quite know what is behind this, this well

Marie Vigouroux:

tailored person suit, which, oh my god, what a great line

Jeremy Greer:

an amazing phrase, because my person suit is not

Jeremy Greer:

very well tailored. My person suit is very ill fitting, so

Jeremy Greer:

it's baggy, and places I don't want it to be baggy, it's it's

Jeremy Greer:

weak in places I don't want it to be weak.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, again, it's this idea of like, well

Marie Vigouroux:

tailored, right? Like, so it's very Hannibal, right? Who makes

Marie Vigouroux:

sure that all of the details are perfect. There's like, he has

Marie Vigouroux:

this, you know, this obsession about control, but also about

Marie Vigouroux:

perfection. And, of course, his persona right to move away from

Marie Vigouroux:

the person suit, but like, his persona is well tailored, so

Marie Vigouroux:

much so that, like, she's like, that's not people aren't like

Marie Vigouroux:

that, like normal people aren't like that. So you are wearing a

Marie Vigouroux:

well tailored person suit. But there's something else

Marie Vigouroux:

underneath that.

Jeremy Greer:

We learned that because he asked her something

Jeremy Greer:

about, do you describe me as a well tailored person suit to

Jeremy Greer:

your psychiatrist friends? She says, you know, I don't talk to

Jeremy Greer:

about any of my patients with my psychiatrist friends. In fact, I

Jeremy Greer:

don't have any patients other than you, because you're the

Jeremy Greer:

only one that insisted I couldn't retire. And I find

Jeremy Greer:

that's a really fascinating insight into this relationship

Jeremy Greer:

that we are just now learning, that we're learning about for

Jeremy Greer:

the first time, because it kind of, you know, we're going to

Jeremy Greer:

talk here in just a minute, where he's kind of wanting to be

Jeremy Greer:

friends with her. And it's this line is so strange to me,

Jeremy Greer:

because it almost like tips the power balance in his favor.

Jeremy Greer:

Because, like, Why? Why would she agree to be his therapist if

Jeremy Greer:

she's retired? Like, what is it that's drawing her back to him?

Jeremy Greer:

What is it that he's making her Why is he making her do this?

Jeremy Greer:

Why her? And it's just kind of interesting to me, especially

Jeremy Greer:

because she asked him, she says, you know, maybe this is not a

Jeremy Greer:

person suit, maybe this is a human veil, which is also just a

Jeremy Greer:

remarkable phrase. And they start talking about friends, and

Jeremy Greer:

you know, he says, you know we're friends, or you know we're

Jeremy Greer:

at least friendly. And Bedelia's like, we're absolutely not

Jeremy Greer:

friends, homie. We don't, you know, she goes, You know, when

Jeremy Greer:

we finish this, I'll pour you a glass of wine, but she'll be

Jeremy Greer:

drinking it on the other side of the veil. And again, just go

Jeremy Greer:

back to that line of like, You're my only patient. You

Jeremy Greer:

wouldn't let me retire. Like, why? What has happened? What is

Jeremy Greer:

this relationship? Right?

Marie Vigouroux:

No, I agree with you. Like, I was like, Oh,

Marie Vigouroux:

well. So it's interesting, because the way that I

Marie Vigouroux:

understood that was that, like, she, she's still like, she still

Marie Vigouroux:

has to have some sort of like, she still has to consent to see

Marie Vigouroux:

him right, like she could, she could just not open the door,

Marie Vigouroux:

you know what I mean, yeah, and so I think, I think she's really

Marie Vigouroux:

like, again, this is just like, first impressions but I think

Marie Vigouroux:

she's really intrigued by this man, right? And so that's why

Marie Vigouroux:

she kind of keeps them on as a patient. But I think also like

Marie Vigouroux:

they are each other's like intellectual equals, and I think

Marie Vigouroux:

that probably both of them have trouble finding that like in

Marie Vigouroux:

their lives, and so there's, like, this bond that's been

Marie Vigouroux:

created between these two people. Because, like, you

Marie Vigouroux:

cannot tell me that Bedelia is also not like wearing a very

Marie Vigouroux:

well tailored person suit. Like, there's something about this

Marie Vigouroux:

woman

Jeremy Greer:

well, and some of it is the trappings that we see

Jeremy Greer:

her in, too, this extremely, very clean, organized,

Jeremy Greer:

respectfully tasteful kind of furnishings that she has in the

Jeremy Greer:

room, very It seems very expensive. And you know, she's

Jeremy Greer:

she's wearing a nice tailored dress, and she has perfectly

Jeremy Greer:

coiffed hair, she offers him a glass of wine. So you get the

Jeremy Greer:

like, even if they're not, even if we don't know that they're

Jeremy Greer:

intellectual equals, we kind of feel that they're operating on

Jeremy Greer:

the same plane, yes, and I think the implication is that they are

Jeremy Greer:

intellectual equals. Because otherwise, why would Hannibal be

Jeremy Greer:

here, right? Like, there's no he would never subject himself to

Jeremy Greer:

somebody poking around in his head, like Dr Gideon described

Jeremy Greer:

Alana doing in the previous episode. And yeah, this

Jeremy Greer:

relationship is fascinating, and I can't wait to talk about it

Jeremy Greer:

more.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, I'm really excited about it too, to

Marie Vigouroux:

be honest with you. And like, when I first watched it, it was

Marie Vigouroux:

really, really surprising to me, because, like, we had just seen

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal like being so upset and having so much contempt for

Marie Vigouroux:

Franklin, wanting to be his friend, and yet he's basically

Marie Vigouroux:

put in a similar position now, right? Like he's seeing a lot

Marie Vigouroux:

more into this relationship with his psychiatrist than there

Marie Vigouroux:

really is, or even than there should be, right? And and the

Marie Vigouroux:

psychiatrist having to, kind of, like, put him back, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

reframe him, and be like, no, no, you're my patient. I'm your

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm your therapist. Like, there's, there's no friendship

Marie Vigouroux:

there. So it was like, Oh, okay. So like, you also are seeking

Marie Vigouroux:

ways of, like, just touching greatness, just like Franklin,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? So, ah, it's tickling my brain. And I'm also thinking

Marie Vigouroux:

about, like, bedelias line, that she's basically because she's

Marie Vigouroux:

basically saying, like, even if you weren't my patient, you

Marie Vigouroux:

wouldn't be my friend, because you constantly have to hide who

Marie Vigouroux:

you are, right? Like, when she says, like, drink, you would be

Marie Vigouroux:

drinking it on the other side of the veil. And I kind of love

Marie Vigouroux:

that again, like it makes me think that, like, she knows a

Marie Vigouroux:

lot more about who he is than he lets on, and that's why he's

Marie Vigouroux:

like, Oh, she knows me, and she's she, she knows me, and she

Marie Vigouroux:

still, like, accepts me, I guess, like she loves me, or

Marie Vigouroux:

loves me, maybe despite who I am, I like, I don't know this is

Marie Vigouroux:

a weird relationship, but I gotta love it. I love it so

Marie Vigouroux:

much.

Jeremy Greer:

It's good, it's good. And the good news is we

Jeremy Greer:

will get to explore this relationship to all of all of

Jeremy Greer:

its nooks and crannies in time. Evil laugh. Insert evil laugh.

Jeremy Greer:

Will arrives to find Hannibal drinking. This is kind of an

Jeremy Greer:

awkward transition, because this episode was originally supposed

Jeremy Greer:

to be like the fourth episode in the series. But really, Brian

Jeremy Greer:

Fuller was like, Maybe we should develop Hannibal more before we

Jeremy Greer:

show him killing three people to make a fantastic feast. Like,

Jeremy Greer:

maybe we should build him up a little bit. So they reshot this

Jeremy Greer:

a little bit, and this is one of the kind of follow ups from this

Jeremy Greer:

is because we go from seeing him drink a pink wine at Bedelia's

Jeremy Greer:

house to him drinking pink wine at his office when will comes

Jeremy Greer:

in. Just a little weird. So

Marie Vigouroux:

I kind of, I kind of loved that, actually,

Marie Vigouroux:

because, um, it did feel a bit choppy, but I, but I loved it,

Marie Vigouroux:

because it's like he's, he saw this glass of wine as being

Marie Vigouroux:

like, maybe a step toward friendship and closeness with

Marie Vigouroux:

Bedelia, and so he's trying to recreate that with will. And I

Marie Vigouroux:

just, I kind of love that. I love that he is, like, so

Marie Vigouroux:

desperately trying to be friends with will.

Jeremy Greer:

And this is going to come up because he Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

describes his relationship with the psychiatrist, his with his

Jeremy Greer:

psychiatrist as unconventional, and will says we have that in

Jeremy Greer:

common. And you know, Hannibal specifically told Jack, when

Jeremy Greer:

Jack asked that he was not Will's therapist, that they just

Jeremy Greer:

have conversations, right? So again, like Will, Hannibal. Will

Jeremy Greer:

is very, very, wants to be very, very clear about these lines and

Jeremy Greer:

their relationships and how exactly that's defined, which is

Jeremy Greer:

fascinating to me, like that's just the way that Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

works, I guess.

Marie Vigouroux:

And it's it's also like, because this is when

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal asks Will if he's really his patient, or if

Marie Vigouroux:

they're simply having conversations. And will replies,

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, I think is the answer to that. Just like, Oh, poor

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal again, being like, reframed about the nature of his

Marie Vigouroux:

relationship with somebody, right? Like, he doesn't want

Marie Vigouroux:

will to be his patient. He wants him to be his boyfriend. So

Marie Vigouroux:

clear.

Jeremy Greer:

I love this so much, because will says yes to

Jeremy Greer:

both of those so that they're just talking, Hannibal decides

Jeremy Greer:

to offer him a glass of wine, saying it would be

Jeremy Greer:

inappropriate, given that it's a late appointment, and they're

Jeremy Greer:

just, you know, friends. And he tells will that he's been seeing

Jeremy Greer:

a psychiatrist since he decided to become a psychiatrist

Jeremy Greer:

himself, which I think is another like, just so extra.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, I just, I just, it's so, it's so just the idea of the

Jeremy Greer:

amount of work you have to do to become a psychiatrist, like the

Jeremy Greer:

years of study and like, classes that you have to take, like,

Jeremy Greer:

it's not like he just decided to become a psychiatrist, or, like,

Jeremy Greer:

I can decide to go fishing tomorrow. I can't decide to go

Jeremy Greer:

be a psychiatrist tomorrow. Like, I can't. But just the idea

Jeremy Greer:

that he was like, Nope, I'm gonna be a psychiatrist, let me

Jeremy Greer:

just, I had mean, do I have to have my own? And then he changes

Jeremy Greer:

the subject again,

Marie Vigouroux:

it's this idea of like, Oh, if, if I want to do

Marie Vigouroux:

this, then I must do that. Because that is the accepted

Marie Vigouroux:

thing. Like, it's the the desire to fit in this society, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Which is also something that I think a lot of neurodivergent

Marie Vigouroux:

people can can relate to, which is interesting, because will has

Marie Vigouroux:

never really tried. We haven't really seen will trying to fit

Marie Vigouroux:

in. He actually kind of rejects that idea. And I wonder if maybe

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal doesn't think that that's really fascinating to

Marie Vigouroux:

him.

Jeremy Greer:

They drink wine. It looks will look so awkward

Jeremy Greer:

with a glass of wine in his and it's he's so comfortable in his

Jeremy Greer:

like, flannel clothing, and his like, kind of dressed down as

Jeremy Greer:

compared to like, the accoutrement that Hannibal has

Jeremy Greer:

in his office, and his like, super put together suit that

Jeremy Greer:

will just holding a wine glass, and that just looks awkward to

Jeremy Greer:

me. It's very funny. Hannibal changes the subject to the

Jeremy Greer:

latest Ripper case, which he read on Freddie Loundes blog,

Jeremy Greer:

and begins to ask, Will you know what? Is this a ripper victim or

Jeremy Greer:

not, right? Like, is this something that do you think Jack

Jeremy Greer:

is going to be finding out about all this other kind of stuff

Marie Vigouroux:

Listen, I like Hannibal, is just such a chaos

Marie Vigouroux:

Gremlin, you know, he's trying to convince will that maybe the

Marie Vigouroux:

Ripper was never the same guy, right? And will just completely

Marie Vigouroux:

dismisses this idea for no other reason than he thinks that it's

Marie Vigouroux:

completely absurd to think that the Ripper could have a friend.

Marie Vigouroux:

And again, ouch. Like, Hannibal is just getting like, you know,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, Oh my God. Like, nobody likes him. I just wants a

Jeremy Greer:

So horrible. That's so horrible. Will, are

Jeremy Greer:

friend!

Jeremy Greer:

you so mean to our boy? I know they talk about the kill and

Jeremy Greer:

they talk about the rippers killing. And will describes it

Jeremy Greer:

as, you know, very everybody was been brutalized. Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

prompts, what was the brutalization hiding and will is

Jeremy Greer:

kind of taken aback by the idea that, you know, oh, there, there

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, I agree.

Jeremy Greer:

were organs missing. Like, could this be organ harvesters? Could

Jeremy Greer:

this be, like a group of people that we thought was the Ripper?

Jeremy Greer:

And we go from here to a past shot, which we know because it's

Jeremy Greer:

in, faded black and white. And Hannibal, for insurance

Jeremy Greer:

And we go immediately from. This to the man in the morgue at the

Jeremy Greer:

purposes, is getting, like his blood drawn. And the man is

Jeremy Greer:

relatively rude because he, you know, he's demands to know if

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal has any infections, and kind of condescendingly explains

Jeremy Greer:

the differences between infections and diseases. And we

Jeremy Greer:

see Hannibal request his business card, which is

Jeremy Greer:

shouldn't be ominous, something that I do constantly like this

Jeremy Greer:

is a thing that happens in my life almost every single day.

Jeremy Greer:

Why is this so ominous? And we know because we cut from here to

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal, or the same man, the same doctor, pulling over on the

Jeremy Greer:

side of the road because his gas tank is leaking, and Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

pulls up directly behind him, and this, like, slow walk

Jeremy Greer:

directly to him is so intimidating and so scary, and

Jeremy Greer:

we because we know what's going to happen, and it's, it's, it's

Jeremy Greer:

terrifying, and, like, the music cranks up, we get this, like,

Jeremy Greer:

good, good, solid. I really enjoy Hannibal's original music

Jeremy Greer:

soundtrack, like the clanging and everything. I think it's

Jeremy Greer:

really good. A lot of people do not like it. Like, a lot of

Jeremy Greer:

people are like, there's a bunch of memes of like, Hannibal looks

Jeremy Greer:

at will a glass breaks, somebody drops a piano. But I actually

Jeremy Greer:

really enjoy it when the music, like, steps up and gets real

Jeremy Greer:

weird like this,

Jeremy Greer:

FBI. He's literally been sawed in half. And Zeller is there

Jeremy Greer:

saying that the man's kidney and heart were removed, and saying,

Jeremy Greer:

Well, that's, that's what the Ripper was looking for in the

Jeremy Greer:

first victim we found. And interspersed throughout all of

Jeremy Greer:

this, as we're talking, it's Hannibal just preparing meat,

Jeremy Greer:

like, you know, wrapping up the heart or and like pulling the

Jeremy Greer:

liver and like stuffing the liver with something, or

Jeremy Greer:

whatever. It looks so delicious. It looks so good. I just have

Jeremy Greer:

all of this. Just looks so tasty.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, like I'm not even an organ person. Like,

Marie Vigouroux:

I don't love eating organs, like I try to avoid them as much as

Marie Vigouroux:

possible, but I would definitely try some of those dishes. Like,

Marie Vigouroux:

why do I want to eat this?

Jeremy Greer:

That's the problem. I had this conversation

Jeremy Greer:

on my podcast a long time ago with my buddy Gary. Like, I

Jeremy Greer:

think one of the horrifying things about being friends with

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal is like, eventually you realize, like, he fed you human

Jeremy Greer:

meat, right? And you're like, Oh yeah, I eat human meat. That's

Jeremy Greer:

really disgusting and horrible. I don't think I would feel that

Jeremy Greer:

bad about it, though I feel like I'd be like, I mean, it sucks,

Jeremy Greer:

like, but I didn't kill anybody. Like, it's not my fault.

Marie Vigouroux:

What would be really horrifying for me is,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, oh, shit, I liked it. You know, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, that would be like, I have to, like, really

Jeremy Greer:

horrify reevaluate some things in myself. But I think, like,

Jeremy Greer:

I'm a strong enough personality that, like, like, I absolutely

Jeremy Greer:

love tiramisu. I don't eat tiramisu every single day of my

Jeremy Greer:

life. You know what I'm saying. Like, I could probably resist

Jeremy Greer:

eating human meat after the after I learned it was human

Jeremy Greer:

meat. I don't think I, you know what I'm like. I don't think I

Jeremy Greer:

would like, like, crazy, yeah, just be like, Oh, just cook it

Jeremy Greer:

rare next time or something. I don't know what I'm saying.

Marie Vigouroux:

Also, there's also something about like, yeah,

Marie Vigouroux:

this podcast is going places, unexpected places, to be honest.

Marie Vigouroux:

But there's also something about, like, how he only, only

Marie Vigouroux:

seems to be harvesting organs. Like, I, for some reason I feel

Marie Vigouroux:

like, like, can't believe I'm about to say this out loud in

Marie Vigouroux:

front of a hot mic, but like, there's so much meat in a human

Marie Vigouroux:

being, and you choose to get only the organs. Like, it seems

Marie Vigouroux:

weird to me. But anyway,

Jeremy Greer:

I think let's remember that for the

Jeremy Greer:

conversation that will and Hannibal have a little bit later

Jeremy Greer:

in this episode, because I think it applies. But Zeller keeps

Jeremy Greer:

talking about this victim that's been cut in half, and that how

Jeremy Greer:

they found him on a school bus, literally looking across my

Jeremy Greer:

aisle from himself. And I found this so hilarious, because,

Jeremy Greer:

like, the guy was condescendingly explaining to

Jeremy Greer:

PhD psychiatrist Hannibal what the difference between infection

Jeremy Greer:

and diseases are. And Hannibal literally sent this dude back to

Jeremy Greer:

school on a bus cut in half, like, it's so good.

Marie Vigouroux:

Listen, I didn't even think about that.

Marie Vigouroux:

And then I read your notes. And honestly, I think, like I was

Marie Vigouroux:

taking my notes last night, and I just like, no, like, I didn't

Marie Vigouroux:

think about it. It's so freaking brilliant. It's so good. Plus,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, Hannibal is also like, a surgeon, of course, he knows the

Marie Vigouroux:

difference between a disease and an infection. This is so good.

Marie Vigouroux:

This is he's so extra,

Jeremy Greer:

So extra will still believes this is two

Jeremy Greer:

killers, that it was the Ripper did this one, but not the first

Jeremy Greer:

one. Zeller is still unbelieving. Still the kind of

Jeremy Greer:

the argument and will kind of presents this idea of organ

Jeremy Greer:

harvesters. They talk about organs and like USB cables,

Jeremy Greer:

which must drive a bunch of medical people watching the show

Jeremy Greer:

crazy like I can't imagine, but they posit the other guy, whose

Jeremy Greer:

name I still don't know, on the team, that kind of says, like,

Jeremy Greer:

maybe it could be two different people. One's an organ harvester

Jeremy Greer:

pretending to be a serial killer, and one's a serial

Jeremy Greer:

killer that harvests organs. And then there's a lot in here.

Jeremy Greer:

Zeller says at some point that he took to will, like, that's

Jeremy Greer:

how the Ripper rips, which is very funny, because it's a runny

Jeremy Greer:

joke between me and Autumn. We one Christmas one year they have

Jeremy Greer:

a Jack the Ripper board game. And so, like, I had heard that

Jeremy Greer:

it was fun to play or whatever, and we're not typically like a

Jeremy Greer:

board game family, but we had a friend over, and Autumn's dad

Jeremy Greer:

was there, and this was before he had a stroke. So like, you

Jeremy Greer:

know, we could, we could all play board games together. And

Jeremy Greer:

in typical board game fashion, like it took forever to figure

Jeremy Greer:

out the rules and do all this stuff. And like, the goal of the

Jeremy Greer:

game is to track down the Ripper Jack, the Ripper. And like,

Jeremy Greer:

we're going through all this thing, and Autumn's dad at one

Jeremy Greer:

point, like, we have the Ripper quartered, and he just, like,

Jeremy Greer:

out of nowhere is like, ah, that's the house that the Ripper

Jeremy Greer:

does is ripping, like, just cracked us up. It's become like

Jeremy Greer:

a running joke with us, so to hear it in this shit was very,

Jeremy Greer:

very funny.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, that's so good. I love that. And this is

Marie Vigouroux:

also where like Will says that the Ripper wants to perform

Marie Vigouroux:

right, that, like every brutal choice has elegance grace, and

Marie Vigouroux:

that his mutilations hide the true nature of his crimes. And

Marie Vigouroux:

if that's not exactly what Bedelia said earlier in this

Marie Vigouroux:

episode, then I don't know what she said.

Jeremy Greer:

And of course, we get the great cut to Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

right after this, just immediately cut to Hannibal. Oh,

Jeremy Greer:

my God, this time he and Alana bloom are in the kitchen

Jeremy Greer:

preparing a meal. Um. And he's creating something called tomato

Jeremy Greer:

brains, which is what's invented by the chef that, like, invented

Jeremy Greer:

a lot of the dishes on the show where you basically, like, peel

Jeremy Greer:

tomatoes and like, make them into this, like, different kind

Jeremy Greer:

of dish, in an effort to, like, find the extraordinary and

Jeremy Greer:

ordinary objects, quote, unquote, which I thought was

Jeremy Greer:

just kind of interesting they are. This is just a flirty

Jeremy Greer:

little like date night. I guess I don't know what this is. This

Jeremy Greer:

is so flirty Hannibal has made -

Marie Vigouroux:

I think he described it perfectly. It's a

Marie Vigouroux:

flirty little date night.

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal has made a specific beer for Alana,

Jeremy Greer:

because she prefers beer over wine. He's aged beer in a wine

Jeremy Greer:

barrel and bottled it himself. It's her own private reserve at

Jeremy Greer:

his house, which is the most extra thing that you could

Jeremy Greer:

possibly do. Like, I don't know how many quote, unquote flirty

Jeremy Greer:

little dates they've been on, like, we saw them drinking

Jeremy Greer:

together, talking about Abigail a few episodes ago, but if this,

Jeremy Greer:

like, assume this is the first or second date, and I'm like,

Jeremy Greer:

got you a whole store of alcohol at my house, girl, it's a little

Jeremy Greer:

extra.

Marie Vigouroux:

That's a lot of effort. Like, that's a lot of

Marie Vigouroux:

effort,

Jeremy Greer:

so much.

Marie Vigouroux:

It makes me wonder about the nature of the

Marie Vigouroux:

relationship between Hannibal and Alana. And I think we get,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, a little bit more about that just later in the scene.

Marie Vigouroux:

But like, I was like, is he, like, is he interested in her

Marie Vigouroux:

that way? Like, it kind of sounds like it, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah. Because as they, as they continue to talk,

Jeremy Greer:

he asked, you know, are you avoiding, on purpose, the

Jeremy Greer:

subject of will Graham, and she's like, oh, yeah,

Jeremy Greer:

absolutely. Like, I don't want to know. She even says, I don't

Jeremy Greer:

want to know anything about will outside of our friendship,

Jeremy Greer:

right? Like, I don't, I don't want to know anything about him

Jeremy Greer:

that I couldn't learn just being his friend. And she talks about

Jeremy Greer:

working on the Ripper case, when around the time Miriam

Jeremy Greer:

disappeared, and I didn't quite get this at the time, I was

Jeremy Greer:

interviewing PhD candidates, and it's kind of implied he she was

Jeremy Greer:

doing it for him, but or maybe they're working in like, the

Jeremy Greer:

same facility or something, I don't know. And Hannibal just

Jeremy Greer:

looks at her in his flirty lit away as, like, those candidates

Jeremy Greer:

thought we were having an affair. Why didn't we, like

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal stop?

Marie Vigouroux:

I know, right, yeah, and it's interesting,

Marie Vigouroux:

because, like, so basically, if I understand correctly, like

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal sort of, like, manipulated the situation so

Marie Vigouroux:

that Alana would be away from Miriam when she was doing the

Marie Vigouroux:

digging into the Ripper Alana. Yeah, that's what I got from

Marie Vigouroux:

this conversation. I might be wrong again, just because I

Marie Vigouroux:

don't know the whole thing. But, like, it sort of seems like he

Marie Vigouroux:

wanted to keep Alana alive and didn't want her to be too mixed

Marie Vigouroux:

up in this whole Ripper thing. Yeah. And so like, why didn't we

Marie Vigouroux:

have an affair? Like, what an interesting question to ask

Marie Vigouroux:

someone

Jeremy Greer:

maybe the flirtiest thing I've ever heard

Jeremy Greer:

in my entire life. Like, they thought we were having an

Jeremy Greer:

affair, why didn't we, like, stop it, get out there.

Marie Vigouroux:

Tell me a lot. Didn't we have an affair?

Jeremy Greer:

This just went to rated X. How did that happen?

Jeremy Greer:

What are we doing,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? But so again, it's like, so what? I

Marie Vigouroux:

don't know. I don't I mean, personally, I don't love them

Marie Vigouroux:

together, but I clearly it's in the text, right? There's

Marie Vigouroux:

something that like they're kind of dancing around. I think him a

Marie Vigouroux:

lot more than her, but it's yeah, anyway,

Jeremy Greer:

she says that he and will have that in common.

Jeremy Greer:

And he says having affairs, which is perfectly she says, No,

Jeremy Greer:

flirtatiously, changing this subject. And you know, anytime

Jeremy Greer:

something gets maybe a little uncomfortable, and he says, or

Jeremy Greer:

maybe we just have you in common. Stop it. Stop it.

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal, stop it. I don't know what you're doing right now.

Jeremy Greer:

Please stop

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, I know what he's doing right now. I

Marie Vigouroux:

have it in my notes. I'm like throuple?

Jeremy Greer:

and this conversation ends with Alana's

Jeremy Greer:

just saying, like, you know, she compares what Jack is doing to

Jeremy Greer:

will, the same thing that Jack did to Miriam, like, just being

Jeremy Greer:

so focused on catching the Ripper that he doesn't care

Jeremy Greer:

about their well being, and how she just wants everybody to

Jeremy Greer:

leave will alone, to let him, like, kind of live his life.

Jeremy Greer:

Live his life. I'm curious what you think overall, like,

Jeremy Greer:

obviously, we've kind of given your thoughts a little bit, but

Jeremy Greer:

just like in summation about a potential relationship between

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal and Alana, because obviously, we're like Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

and will like, we're pro we're on this side, but this is so

Jeremy Greer:

flirty, and so it doesn't feel out of character for Hannibal,

Jeremy Greer:

but it feels like almost out of perspective, like we just don't

Jeremy Greer:

expect this from him. And I'm curious how you feel about this

Jeremy Greer:

on the first watch.

Marie Vigouroux:

So I'm okay. This is a good question, because

Marie Vigouroux:

I haven't really reflected on it. So it's a good opportunity

Marie Vigouroux:

to do that. I sort of feel like there's like a love triangle

Marie Vigouroux:

that's happening between the three of them, where Alana is a

Marie Vigouroux:

lot more interested in will than in Hannibal. Hannibal is a lot

Marie Vigouroux:

more interested in will than in Alana. Will is just like

Marie Vigouroux:

clueless, because he's will Graham. But I think that

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal is trying to get close to Alana in order to get close

Marie Vigouroux:

to will as well, right? And so when it comes to Hannibal and

Marie Vigouroux:

Alana, I think she is kind of just like enjoying what's

Marie Vigouroux:

happening, just for what it is, which, you know, as as we know,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, they're not having an affair, but there's like,

Marie Vigouroux:

flirtatious this and that, and she's kind of like, oh, well,

Marie Vigouroux:

whatever. Like, this is fun. Why? Why stop it? Even though I

Marie Vigouroux:

don't think she's as interested in Hannibal as she is in will,

Marie Vigouroux:

where was I going with this?

Jeremy Greer:

No, I think, I think you're right. Yeah, I

Jeremy Greer:

think that, I think that all lines up is like, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

because it's probably very fun to be flirty with Hannibal, but

Jeremy Greer:

it's also probably also probably pretty intimidating, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Like, I could see, like, I want to be in his kitchen hanging out

Jeremy Greer:

and drinking his beer wine and making delicious food, but like,

Jeremy Greer:

I don't necessarily want to take him home to mom and dad. Like,

Jeremy Greer:

I'm a little that's a little intimidated.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, there you go. I think there's, there's

Marie Vigouroux:

that. And I think that Hannibal, like, is also, you know, Alana

Marie Vigouroux:

is pretty cool. She's able to tell that, like she's tasting

Marie Vigouroux:

oak in in the beer that he made her right, like, and I think

Marie Vigouroux:

that he's like, Okay, well, you know, she's not Will Graham, but

Marie Vigouroux:

she she'll do right, like she's,

Jeremy Greer:

she's okay, fine,

Marie Vigouroux:

she's okay, she's all right. She's not

Marie Vigouroux:

Bedelia. She's not like Will Graham, but like she's, she's

Marie Vigouroux:

cool, right? Like she comes to my dinner parties and eats my

Marie Vigouroux:

food. I'd be told me that I make good beer.

Jeremy Greer:

I'd be I'd be remiss, as a X Men podcaster to

Jeremy Greer:

not talk about how well this lines up with Cyclops gene and

Jeremy Greer:

Wolverine especially. And I don't know you, we may have

Jeremy Greer:

talked about this at one time, but like in the most recent

Jeremy Greer:

comics, like, there's one of those diagrams of the x mansion,

Jeremy Greer:

and it was revealed just recently, apparently, like

Jeremy Greer:

there's a door between cyclops and jeans and Wolverines room

Jeremy Greer:

now, like it's a connecting room. And I just yep, yep,

Jeremy Greer:

that's Hannibal will and Alana.

Marie Vigouroux:

Anyway. That's how I see it personally, like to

Marie Vigouroux:

me, that's, that's what this relationship is like. Yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

So as they talk about Jack, we switch to Jack.

Jeremy Greer:

He's back to walking alone in the morgue, which seems like a

Jeremy Greer:

real depressing way to get your steps in. But I'm not Jack

Jeremy Greer:

Crawford, so, but I have no judgment. He doesn't this time.

Jeremy Greer:

There's no phone ringing, but he decides to go over and check the

Jeremy Greer:

drawer anyway, and as he opens it up, it's empty, but behind

Jeremy Greer:

him on a morgue table, we see, Will Graham, the corpse of Will

Jeremy Greer:

Graham sit up and look at him? And we see his arm missing, just

Jeremy Greer:

like Miriam lasses. And we see, like the incision, the Y

Jeremy Greer:

incision from his autopsy. And as will disappears, like Jack

Jeremy Greer:

kind of comes to but he's already awake, like the last

Jeremy Greer:

time we saw this, this was a nightmare. Now he's literally

Jeremy Greer:

having this, this happen to him while he's awake and walking

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, listen, Jack is having a real hard time,

Marie Vigouroux:

around.

Marie Vigouroux:

right? Like between his wife and this and Miriam Lass coming

Marie Vigouroux:

back, literally from the dead, and him worrying about will and

Marie Vigouroux:

like, seeing the similarities between Miriam and will, and I

Marie Vigouroux:

think, also realizing the error of his ways in so many ways.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like he's basically at the point where he's like, kind of, you

Marie Vigouroux:

know, in the last episode, where he was like, I know when I'm

Marie Vigouroux:

awake. Like, I he doesn't know when he's awake anymore. And,

Marie Vigouroux:

yeah, unraveling, I think, is what's going on here. Like, and

Marie Vigouroux:

is that what Hannibal does to people? Because, like, now we

Marie Vigouroux:

have will to who this is happening. Now we have Jack,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, who's next? Alana, like,

Jeremy Greer:

I don't know. Don't forget about a girl

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Abigail!

Jeremy Greer:

she's briefly in this episode in a little while,

Jeremy Greer:

but like, this is exactly kind of the thing that he was doing

Jeremy Greer:

to Abigail, which is making her, like, hallucinate while she was

Jeremy Greer:

awake.

Marie Vigouroux:

I try to think, I try to not think too much

Marie Vigouroux:

about Abigail, but yes, that's right,

Jeremy Greer:

that's a good instinct. It's a good instinct.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it'll serve you well for this podcast and for the show. I

Jeremy Greer:

think we get to what's probably the highlight of this episode,

Jeremy Greer:

and maybe, maybe just in terms of, like, fun, maybe the

Jeremy Greer:

highlight of the season. For me, it's difficult for me to

Jeremy Greer:

remember exactly everything that happens in this season, so I

Jeremy Greer:

might change my mind. But like, this is such a just a

Jeremy Greer:

delightfully, like, debaucherous montage where we see, we see

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal pulling a business card, pulling out of his out of

Jeremy Greer:

his recipe book, a recipe card, and then going out and, like,

Jeremy Greer:

killing somebody, basically, and then bringing home the meat. And

Jeremy Greer:

this is set to a might need your help again le veau d'or, which

Jeremy Greer:

one is from fost. It's the meat gathering montage.

Marie Vigouroux:

Le Veau d'or

Jeremy Greer:

So this is an opera about mephysophthales

Jeremy Greer:

trying to tempt fast into hell. And I put this picture in here

Jeremy Greer:

because I was looking at this YouTube video. I was like, I

Jeremy Greer:

have to put this in the notes. This is crazy. The song that is

Jeremy Greer:

playing throughout all of this is Mephistopheles, like having

Jeremy Greer:

just basically beating the streets, like fucking with Faust

Jeremy Greer:

and Wagner and like some other people, and singing this

Jeremy Greer:

irreverent song about a giant golden calf. And if you look it

Jeremy Greer:

up on YouTube, like the opera made a giant golden calf is

Jeremy Greer:

huge. And I just, I just love this image, and I love the idea

Jeremy Greer:

of this, right? Like, obviously, this is the song itself. Is

Jeremy Greer:

like, we're getting everybody together to get drunk and

Jeremy Greer:

worship this. This, you know, pagan altar, basically. And this

Jeremy Greer:

is what Hannibal is doing, right? He's, he's gathering up

Jeremy Greer:

his meats, he's pulling in the harvest, and he's killing, like,

Jeremy Greer:

this is fun for him. This is the first time that the Ripper has

Jeremy Greer:

ripped, and truly, in two years, as he as he starts killing these

Jeremy Greer:

people and collecting their meat, and we see him, like,

Jeremy Greer:

package this meat very carefully and prepare it and put it in

Jeremy Greer:

little freezer bags and put it in his freezer. And it's, uh,

Jeremy Greer:

It's so delightful. What is in that pantry, what is in that

Jeremy Greer:

pantry, Hannibal,

Marie Vigouroux:

and it's, it's also like, you know, inspiration

Marie Vigouroux:

struck again. Which, which I find really interesting that it

Marie Vigouroux:

would strike in this moment, right, where he's like, both

Marie Vigouroux:

very in control of what's going on, right? He has his hands all

Marie Vigouroux:

over Jack Crawford, he has his hands all over Will Graham all

Marie Vigouroux:

over Alana bloom like, he seems to have everything very much in

Marie Vigouroux:

his control. And yet on his personal life, like there's

Marie Vigouroux:

also, there also seems to be a level of, like, longing for

Marie Vigouroux:

connection with other people. And so therefore, like, a loss

Marie Vigouroux:

of control, like he cannot control who he gets, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

emotionally intimate with. Let's put it that way, because the

Marie Vigouroux:

people that he would want to have those friendships with are

Marie Vigouroux:

basically like, yeah, I don't know. There has to be some kind

Marie Vigouroux:

of distance between us and and I just like that difference

Marie Vigouroux:

between, like, being in control and lacking control is just so

Marie Vigouroux:

delicious to me.

Jeremy Greer:

It's the question you asked earlier, which is,

Jeremy Greer:

like, what has he been doing for the last two years? I think is

Jeremy Greer:

really insightful, especially because we're seeing him be

Jeremy Greer:

inspired by this. And if we it's difficult to tell, like, how how

Jeremy Greer:

much time has passed since we've begun the show, since Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

has met Will, and they've started doing all of this. We

Jeremy Greer:

get the impression that it's several months, though, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Like, we get the impression that it's it's not just like this

Jeremy Greer:

hasn't all happened in a week, like this is all happening over

Jeremy Greer:

the course of months. And I would imagine, if we look at his

Jeremy Greer:

life, the only thing we really know about him is that he has

Jeremy Greer:

been that he has had this practice, and presumably he's

Jeremy Greer:

been working with patients like Franklin, and we see him be

Jeremy Greer:

incredibly bored, and, you know, getting no inspiration

Jeremy Greer:

whatsoever from Franklin. So being pulled into this meeting

Jeremy Greer:

Will Graham having, establishing a new, closer working

Jeremy Greer:

relationship with Alana, having this connection to Jack

Jeremy Greer:

Crawford, having this child murderer baby in Abigail like

Jeremy Greer:

obviously, probably did inspire him, right like this. These are

Jeremy Greer:

the things that he lives for. And it's interesting that you

Jeremy Greer:

said that he's in control of all this, because this, to me, feels

Jeremy Greer:

like him just creating chaos, of just even though he's like a

Jeremy Greer:

controlled form of chaos, but he's pushing all of these

Jeremy Greer:

buttons, not necessarily knowing where they'll go, like, having a

Jeremy Greer:

good idea, but not knowing exactly what will happen, just

Jeremy Greer:

causing all of this chaos around them and being like, all right,

Jeremy Greer:

all of this is established. Like, time to throw a feast.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, let's go. I'm ready. It's so good. It's just so so good.

Marie Vigouroux:

I love that. Actually, yeah,

Jeremy Greer:

we get some comedy beats too. Because after, after

Jeremy Greer:

this montage, we go to the morgue, where there's now four

Jeremy Greer:

bodies. Hannibal has killed the Ripper has killed his three.

Jeremy Greer:

They talk about the organs being removed one cause, like a spleen

Jeremy Greer:

Who the heck needs a spleen transplant? Still thinking, this

Jeremy Greer:

is organ harvesters, and it would just cuts immediately to

Jeremy Greer:

like, a blender, like, chopping up a bunch of pink slush. Like,

Jeremy Greer:

just so good.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's so funny. It is so funny. Like, it's very

Marie Vigouroux:

dark humor, but it is so funny. And I love it.

Jeremy Greer:

It's a It's what my friend Gary calls a rough

Jeremy Greer:

chuckle. And I just, it's just a real rough chuckle,

Marie Vigouroux:

very true.

Jeremy Greer:

They talk about one of the people missing part

Jeremy Greer:

of their intestine. And it's like, you know, either we're

Jeremy Greer:

looking for a person with a short intestine, or, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

the Ripper is making sausage, and then we see the Ripper

Jeremy Greer:

literally making sausage. It was everything. Was it the last

Jeremy Greer:

episode, I think that you mentioned sausage making or

Jeremy Greer:

something. I can't remember

Marie Vigouroux:

something about like, how we don't we don't want

Marie Vigouroux:

to see, like, we don't want to see how the sausage is made up.

Marie Vigouroux:

Today, we literally see how the sausage is made. And I think I

Marie Vigouroux:

DM do that. I was like, I can't believe that I said that will

Marie Vigouroux:

have people screaming, for sure.

Jeremy Greer:

I was, I was using, you know, stuff like

Jeremy Greer:

that, for the video that we made. So I, like, knew that was

Jeremy Greer:

coming, and I've just been waiting. So it's just been

Jeremy Greer:

really, I do a lot of waiting for you to find out things on

Jeremy Greer:

this podcast. Will still thinks That there's two killers, that

Jeremy Greer:

at least one is the ripper,

Marie Vigouroux:

and Jack is really not happy about that.

Jeremy Greer:

From here, we go back to Hannibal's office, where

Jeremy Greer:

Franklin has arrived for his next appointment. And Franklin

Jeremy Greer:

is very excited, because he has spotted Hannibal shopping for

Jeremy Greer:

cheese at the local cheesery. He says he's a he's a super he says

Jeremy Greer:

cheese is my passion. He asked if Hannibal has ever heard of

Jeremy Greer:

tyromancy, which is the divinization of cheese, which I

Jeremy Greer:

believe was a real thing. When I looked it up on Google,

Marie Vigouroux:

I know, right? I had to look it up. I was like,

Marie Vigouroux:

What is this?

Jeremy Greer:

What is this? And how do I get involved? Frankly,

Marie Vigouroux:

so, okay, so just just again, like not

Marie Vigouroux:

knowing what's going to happen, but seeing the way that things

Marie Vigouroux:

are moving with with Franklin and Hannibal, and knowing that

Marie Vigouroux:

there's an episode called fromage later, which is French

Marie Vigouroux:

for cheese, I'm like, he's gonna eat Franklin. Like he's gonna

Marie Vigouroux:

eat Franklin poor baby Franklin,

Jeremy Greer:

poor, poor Franklin, he's obviously trying

Jeremy Greer:

to make this connection with Hannibal. He's spotted Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

at like, the best dairy place in Baltimore, or whatever. And

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal just has this, like, kind of throwaway line of, it's

Jeremy Greer:

a very small town. And he says, as much as he loves cheese,

Jeremy Greer:

Tobias doesn't eat dairy. And when Hannibal says, Do you

Jeremy Greer:

desire tobias Sexually franklin, gets very defensive. And it's

Jeremy Greer:

like, you know, Oh no, it's not like that at all. Like, don't

Jeremy Greer:

get me wrong, I was in a fraternity, I did things but

Jeremy Greer:

like, it's not my it's not my brand. And I'm like, what does

Jeremy Greer:

that fucking mean, man? Like, what do you

Marie Vigouroux:

I I mean, listen, I have so many

Marie Vigouroux:

questions, although, like, anyway, many that I don't want

Marie Vigouroux:

answers. But yeah, this was really surprising to me, that he

Marie Vigouroux:

was, like, not actually in a relationship with Tobias, or

Marie Vigouroux:

maybe he's just, like, not just denying it, even though that's

Marie Vigouroux:

what may be happening. I'm not, I'm not entirely sure what's

Marie Vigouroux:

going on there.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it could even be, and this is just

Jeremy Greer:

speculation. I don't, I don't actually know or remember

Jeremy Greer:

exactly, but it could be like, Franklin has tried, right, and

Jeremy Greer:

Tobias shut him down. So now it's now it's like, oh no, no,

Jeremy Greer:

this. I don't even that's not my thing. And Hannibal, I think,

Jeremy Greer:

picks up on a little bit of this, because he says, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

Tobias is your best friend, but you're not his best friend. I'm

Jeremy Greer:

like, ouch. Please don't ever say that about me, about

Jeremy Greer:

anybody. So anybody. It's such a it's such a harsh thing to hear.

Marie Vigouroux:

It is and and the body language really changes

Marie Vigouroux:

in this moment. Like the whole scene, it's, it's so telling

Marie Vigouroux:

what happens, right? Like, at first, like you said, Franklin

Marie Vigouroux:

is like, sit on the edge of his seat. Like, he's so excited to

Marie Vigouroux:

be, like, talking to Hannibal about cheese. And he's even,

Marie Vigouroux:

like touching Hannibal's leg at one point, like, to his great

Marie Vigouroux:

displeasure, to be honest. And as someone who does not like to

Marie Vigouroux:

be touched casually like that, I totally get it. Like, Get your

Marie Vigouroux:

hands off of me, right? And then, like, he gets really

Marie Vigouroux:

defensive about Tobias. Like, he bolts back, like, right back

Marie Vigouroux:

into his seat, and he crosses his legs immediately, and he's

Marie Vigouroux:

trying to put, like, as much distance between him and

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal as possible. And again, like, it's like, but you were

Marie Vigouroux:

so, like, I thought that you fancied Hannibal Right? Like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

can't anyway. And throughout the exchange, like, Hannibal is

Marie Vigouroux:

sitting back with his legs crossed, like his hands, like

Marie Vigouroux:

holding on to one another. So again, like, there's this idea

Marie Vigouroux:

of, like distance and like crossing away this person, like

Marie Vigouroux:

that he finds so vulgar, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Absolutely. my, um, my oncologist, I guess,

Jeremy Greer:

because he's used to, like having very serious

Jeremy Greer:

conversations with people. Like, I'll be sitting in the chair

Jeremy Greer:

when I go to, you know, have an appointment with him, and he's

Jeremy Greer:

on one of those little rolly, round Dr stool things, and he

Jeremy Greer:

gets so close to me that, like, if my like, if I'm sitting down,

Jeremy Greer:

and my legs are like, apart from one another, right? Like, if

Jeremy Greer:

I'm, if I'm doing the man spread thing, like, His leg is like up

Jeremy Greer:

his knee is like, up to my thigh. And I'm like, I my dude,

Jeremy Greer:

I need you to, like, use this maybe, like, and I've gotten to

Jeremy Greer:

the point where, like, I'm like, kind of sitting to the side a

Jeremy Greer:

little bit with, like, my knees, like touching one another, just

Jeremy Greer:

to, like, maybe not get that level of intimacy. And I think

Jeremy Greer:

he's just doing it to be like, I'm talking to you seriously

Jeremy Greer:

about a serious thing. And I'm like, we you are, but you're

Jeremy Greer:

also, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

in my bubble,

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, we're about to find only, there's only one

Jeremy Greer:

bed at the hospital, man. Well, come on, we gotta, we gotta get.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Doctor,

Marie Vigouroux:

one bed in this hospital.

Jeremy Greer:

It's only one bed in the hospital. I'm sorry, and

Jeremy Greer:

I'd have to spend the night with you, Jeremy, to make sure that

Jeremy Greer:

you're okay.

Marie Vigouroux:

okay. I'm sorry

Jeremy Greer:

Between this and the tell me, Dean, like we were

Jeremy Greer:

just inventing fanfic for the people out there.

Marie Vigouroux:

Listen, maybe inspiration will strike for all

Marie Vigouroux:

of these fanfic writers

Jeremy Greer:

can't wait.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay. let's side step that

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah

Jeremy Greer:

Franklin continues to talk. He says that he's not

Jeremy Greer:

necessarily. He says he's not worried about being alone, but

Jeremy Greer:

he describes being alone as a dull ache in the stomach, and he

Jeremy Greer:

doesn't want to hurt. He's more worried about being hurt. And I

Jeremy Greer:

find that fascinating to to relay, like, this feeling of

Jeremy Greer:

loneliness into a feeling in your gut and not wanting to feel

Jeremy Greer:

the pain of that, as opposed to, like, again, Franklin distancing

Jeremy Greer:

himself and creating this outside, outside persona of

Jeremy Greer:

himself to try to impress the people around him, just like

Jeremy Greer:

Four years ago me at the dinner table laughing

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal is doing, but obviously doing a much better job, a much

Jeremy Greer:

worse job. Excuse me, and I love this cut too, because he

Jeremy Greer:

describes that he doesn't want to be hurt. And then we cut to

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal, who opens the door fully expecting will to be

Jeremy Greer:

there. And he goes through all of the emotions that anybody has

Jeremy Greer:

ever gone through that has been stood up on a date before, like

Jeremy Greer:

double checking the watch, straightening things that don't

Jeremy Greer:

need to be straightened. He's double checking his like

Jeremy Greer:

appointment calendar, and he's just, he looks so sad. And I

Jeremy Greer:

know this is so off topic, and I apologize about this, but again,

Jeremy Greer:

I was going down the rabbit hole on the music stuff this morning.

Jeremy Greer:

alone in the candlelight of day 100 of quarantine.

Jeremy Greer:

I mentioned earlier, this was Chopin and I was Chopin, and I

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh,

Jeremy Greer:

and that's four years ago, so that was during

Jeremy Greer:

was wrong. This is Requiem in D minor, K 626, lacrymosa by

Jeremy Greer:

quarantine two years ago from psycho Hall. This one's a little

Jeremy Greer:

bit longer, so I apologize when the antagonist has nothing left

Jeremy Greer:

Mozart's. And there's nothing, I didn't find any like specific

Jeremy Greer:

to lose and has already stained his hands with blood, he drinks

Jeremy Greer:

a glass of wine while a candle is lit on a large table and open

Jeremy Greer:

things. Like, there's a couple of things about like, this, the

Jeremy Greer:

space with a crystal sheet elegantly, he slices through the

Jeremy Greer:

song, this, this music, like creating longing. But I'm gonna,

Jeremy Greer:

steak, closing his eyes and savoring every ounce of taste

Jeremy Greer:

while laughing hysterically and crying at the same time and

Jeremy Greer:

I need to put a marker in, because I'm gonna put in the

Jeremy Greer:

saying, yes, it's so good. Yes, he gluttonously savors his meal

Jeremy Greer:

track. Everybody's gonna recognize the track when I put

Jeremy Greer:

with impeccable haste, and finally, inhales and exhales

Jeremy Greer:

gently. Afterward, he wipes his mouth with a white handkerchief

Jeremy Greer:

it in. And I just want to read you some of the YouTube

Jeremy Greer:

with grace and is seen exiting the room while a bright light

Jeremy Greer:

blinds the audience as if he completely and freely accepting

Jeremy Greer:

comments, if you don't, if you don't mind, please. It's been

Jeremy Greer:

this ineffable fate death. Just how are you going so hard

Jeremy Greer:

231 years since this song was written, and it's still fire.

Jeremy Greer:

YouTube commenters, that's crazy. This is insane, but it

Jeremy Greer:

was so handful.

Marie Vigouroux:

Are you sure you're reading from reading from

Marie Vigouroux:

YouTube and not AO3?

Jeremy Greer:

and like, every response to that was like, You

Jeremy Greer:

should put this on. Are you a writer? Like it was crazy, but

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, this song is so, like, it's so moody. It reminds me of,

Jeremy Greer:

like the Vampire Lestat, like playing the piano for Listen for

Jeremy Greer:

Louis in the movie. It's yeah, just anyway. I just sorry. I

Jeremy Greer:

know I'm taking this on very long to answer this episode, and

Jeremy Greer:

I apologize.

Marie Vigouroux:

No, I mean, I think, I think, but I think it

Marie Vigouroux:

fits right. Like, that's exactly what's going on with Hannibal

Marie Vigouroux:

here. And, like, I said, like, Hannibal makes allowances for

Marie Vigouroux:

for will that he doesn't for other people, because, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

standing somebody up is rude, right? And I think that if this

Marie Vigouroux:

was anybody else, Hannibal would probably be asking for their

Marie Vigouroux:

business card at this point. But for will, you know, like, you

Marie Vigouroux:

know, and cut to will,

Jeremy Greer:

like, yeah, we cut to will, who is dreaming. He is

Jeremy Greer:

sitting across the body that we saw in the first episode that

Jeremy Greer:

was mounted on the antlers that we think that the Ripper was

Jeremy Greer:

doing, the copycat of Jacob Hobbs and Abigail is saying, is

Jeremy Greer:

so much better with just the two of us. And then as we hear

Jeremy Greer:

someone calling for will, she says, Dad, Dad, there's someone

Jeremy Greer:

else here. We haven't really been talking about Abigail a

Jeremy Greer:

whole lot. I keep bringing her up, but like, the show, hasn't

Jeremy Greer:

been really referring to her very much. And again, think this

Jeremy Greer:

is just like reminding us, oh, hey, this chick exists. And she

Jeremy Greer:

you guys are kind of setting you up at setting yourselves up as

Jeremy Greer:

her father, especially, Will, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

I also, anyway, I didn't spend too much time on

Marie Vigouroux:

that, but I was trying to figure out, like, who was the body on

Marie Vigouroux:

the antlers? And I was like, is that mads? Is that Hannibal?

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, I wasn't sure, but I yeah, I don't know.

Jeremy Greer:

I used that as a part of the video, so I should

Jeremy Greer:

probably know. But I wasn't paying attention. I just assumed

Jeremy Greer:

it was, you know, dead girl number three in the credits, or

Jeremy Greer:

whatever.

Marie Vigouroux:

Or maybe I believe it's a man because,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, there's, or anyway, like, I don't know, but it's, um,

Marie Vigouroux:

there's, there's somebody on the antlers. And I was trying to

Marie Vigouroux:

figure out if it was Garrett Jacob Hobbs. But I was like,

Marie Vigouroux:

that looks like Mads. And I so, I don't know. I don't know.

Jeremy Greer:

We'll have to - listeners. You guys know better

Jeremy Greer:

than we do. You're gonna, you're gonna. To go tell us what's

Jeremy Greer:

please tell us we don't know.

Marie Vigouroux:

We're very confused,

Jeremy Greer:

very confused. Will fell asleep, sort of, he

Jeremy Greer:

was just sitting there with his eyes open, not being present.

Jeremy Greer:

And as Hannibal arrives to his office to try to figure out,

Jeremy Greer:

like, hey, where the fuck are you and why aren't you at my

Jeremy Greer:

house, he used to find my iPhone on Will was like, why are you

Jeremy Greer:

still at work? We should be hanging out.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's like, why are you still at work? Right?

Marie Vigouroux:

He's like, that, you know, calling him like, when are you

Marie Vigouroux:

gonna be home? Exactly,

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, like you told me you would be home by

Jeremy Greer:

eight, and you're not like, what is going on right now?

Marie Vigouroux:

All I can see right now is, like, these

Marie Vigouroux:

cartoon characters of like Hannibal, just like, angrily

Marie Vigouroux:

walking in, like, to Will's office, like picking him up and

Marie Vigouroux:

just taking him home and sitting him down, giving him a glass of

Marie Vigouroux:

wine or something. Like, he's like, you're supposed to be home

Marie Vigouroux:

right now,

Jeremy Greer:

which absolutely exists on Tumblr. Like, you

Jeremy Greer:

could definitely find that. will says that he should stop

Jeremy Greer:

sleeping altogether, and it's the best way to avoid bad

Jeremy Greer:

dreams. And Hannibal looks over and says, Well, I can see what's

Jeremy Greer:

causing you bad dreams on Hannibal on Will's desk is just

Jeremy Greer:

a bunch of picture of the rippers kills. And you could

Jeremy Greer:

just see the delight in Hannibal as he gets to look at his work

Jeremy Greer:

with his bestie, with his with his little boyfriend, and gets

Jeremy Greer:

to talk about it, even in like, a separated way, like, you could

Jeremy Greer:

just tell that he's excited about this. And will even

Jeremy Greer:

invites him. He's like, like, tell me what you see, doctor.

Jeremy Greer:

And they discuss, the rippers kills. And he says, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

these are the rippers enemies. And Will says, these aren't the

Jeremy Greer:

rippers enemies. They are pest these - He dissected them to

Jeremy Greer:

disgrace them as a public shaming. And Hannibal looks up,

Jeremy Greer:

and he's like, Oh my God, this man sees me. This is, I am, holy

Jeremy Greer:

shit. This man sees me, maybe a little bit more than I was

Jeremy Greer:

originally anticipating. Like, this is, this is a little much.

Marie Vigouroux:

He's like that's So hot. I love that.

Marie Vigouroux:

Please know me, Will.

Jeremy Greer:

But he can't resist. And he says he takes the

Jeremy Greer:

organs away, because in his mind, they don't deserve them.

Jeremy Greer:

And Will says yes. And then, like, you could tell, like, this

Jeremy Greer:

is a moment for will, who's like, oh, like, it just

Jeremy Greer:

illuminates something in his brain about the ripper. And it's

Jeremy Greer:

so good, like, again, and it's that Hannibal is unable to

Jeremy Greer:

resist, like, this is him, like, peeking past that human veil

Jeremy Greer:

right, to move it over a little bit. And it's so good,

Marie Vigouroux:

exactly. It's like, it's the desire, I saw it

Marie Vigouroux:

also like, as the desire to connect to the one person that

Marie Vigouroux:

he knows is able to understand him, like, like that

Marie Vigouroux:

conversation with Bedelia and Franklin, like they've really

Marie Vigouroux:

had an effect on him. And he's like, he doesn't want to be

Marie Vigouroux:

alone and to feel that dull ache inside of him, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Poor, poor Hannibal, poor cannibal.

Marie Vigouroux:

I know! Am I affording him, like too much

Marie Vigouroux:

humanity? I don't know.

Jeremy Greer:

And then Hannibal pulls out a picture of Miriam

Jeremy Greer:

lass' arm, and this conversation is just so fucking hilarious and

Jeremy Greer:

great. You know, Hannibal basically just is like, what's

Jeremy Greer:

this? And he's, will tells him, and Hannibal's like, well, it

Jeremy Greer:

looks like he was trying to humiliate someone. I think will

Jeremy Greer:

says he this doesn't fit, because he wasn't trying to

Jeremy Greer:

humiliate Miriam lass. We didn't see her on display. And he says

Jeremy Greer:

he was humiliating someone. And will points out he was

Jeremy Greer:

humiliating Jack. And will just looks indirectly, like, did it

Jeremy Greer:

work? And I'm like, Excuse me, my friend, well, you cannot

Jeremy Greer:

just, you can't just ask that. Like, that's impossible. Oh my

Jeremy Greer:

god, did it work? Oh my god.

Marie Vigouroux:

So like, again, like it's Hannibal is like,

Marie Vigouroux:

toeing that line between like the normal human person, like

Marie Vigouroux:

the well tailored human suit, and like his true nature, and

Marie Vigouroux:

like the performance of one, like tipping into the other,

Marie Vigouroux:

like it's just, it's a lot,

Jeremy Greer:

it's a lot. Meanwhile, Beverly has done some

Jeremy Greer:

some science work, I guess she's been looking for what she called

Jeremy Greer:

the kill truck for their organ harvester, and they found, like,

Jeremy Greer:

some video of a private ambulance leaving the crime

Jeremy Greer:

scene, which is a little unusual because it left empty. And then

Jeremy Greer:

they tracked the ambulance down. Well, they decided to go get

Jeremy Greer:

will because this is, this is a hot lead. And of course,

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal is still in Will's office, and Jack asked, Would

Jeremy Greer:

you care to help us catch the Ripper? And Hannibal just his

Jeremy Greer:

eyes light up. It's like, Oh, of course I would absolutely

Marie Vigouroux:

How could I refuse?

Jeremy Greer:

And then we go and meet, like, the ambulance

Jeremy Greer:

company manager, who says, like, oh, this was checked in, but it

Jeremy Greer:

turns out the ambulance is not there. And Beverly is like,

Jeremy Greer:

Science, Science, Science. I know how to track it down. And

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal is like, watching all of this, and he just looks at

Jeremy Greer:

will. And this is maybe one of my favorite lines of the show

Jeremy Greer:

where he just looks at will says, This is all very

Jeremy Greer:

educational. And I'm just it's so like, this is we've seen

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal be close to, like, he's been at the crime scene before,

Jeremy Greer:

right? Like, with with will and Abigail and all that went down.

Jeremy Greer:

But like, this is him, like, on the trail of a killer, probably

Jeremy Greer:

for the first time, like, seeing how they operate, like, as if he

Jeremy Greer:

was one of them. And just this is very educational. It's such a

Jeremy Greer:

good like, just understated, hilarious line, like, again, who

Jeremy Greer:

is he performing for? Who's the joke for? If not for me, like,

Jeremy Greer:

it's like he's looking out of the world and seeing a stage

Jeremy Greer:

that nobody else sees, right, like he's looking he's looking

Jeremy Greer:

at an audience that nobody else sees. And I love this so much.

Marie Vigouroux:

I completely agree with you. Like this is, I

Marie Vigouroux:

think I DM you like Hannibal saying this is very educational,

Marie Vigouroux:

when looking at, like, how certain things work, like, in

Marie Vigouroux:

law enforcement is absolutely scary, right? Like, it's

Marie Vigouroux:

absolutely terrifying. And then, like, on second watch, I I kind

Marie Vigouroux:

of realized that, like, ironically, I think that this

Marie Vigouroux:

whole episode is sort of meant to get the audience to relate to

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal, right, like, particularly, to relate to like

Marie Vigouroux:

his loneliness, to his isolation, like to his constant

Marie Vigouroux:

like, masking and hiding of who he is. And so even though we

Marie Vigouroux:

literally see him like cooking human beings, we also see him

Marie Vigouroux:

like being moved by music, being like annoyed that someone likes

Marie Vigouroux:

him who he doesn't like back, being happy when he finds out

Marie Vigouroux:

that he got revenge on somebody who tried to stop him. We see

Marie Vigouroux:

him like being sad that the boy he likes doesn't seem to like

Marie Vigouroux:

him back and and we see him being funny and again, like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

knew that this was coming, but like, I love this character,

Marie Vigouroux:

Jeremy, what is happening to me?

Jeremy Greer:

so good. This is, I mean, you just love to hate

Jeremy Greer:

this man like you and you hate to love this man like it's just

Jeremy Greer:

so impossible. It's such that's what I think makes the show so

Jeremy Greer:

great. Is like, just this fictional character who is so

Jeremy Greer:

incredibly awful, and just continue, continuously compels

Jeremy Greer:

you to like him, like you get caught in his web. And that's

Jeremy Greer:

one thing that the great portrayals of Hannibal Lecter

Jeremy Greer:

that we've seen throughout the years, Anthony Hopkins and the

Jeremy Greer:

original Silence of the Lambs and Mads Mikkelsen now that's

Jeremy Greer:

what they do very well, is they give this, like, otherwordly

Jeremy Greer:

being a human persona and, like, pull you into it. And it's just,

Jeremy Greer:

it's just very, very good. So we have to do crime stuff. They

Jeremy Greer:

found the ambulance. They've tracked it down. They find this

Jeremy Greer:

man, wrist deep into his victim trying to steal some organs. He

Jeremy Greer:

can't lift up his arms as Jack orders him to do. Jack's carried

Jeremy Greer:

around a shotgun because, apparently he's an action movie

Jeremy Greer:

superstar. They call Hannibal over and Hannibal says he was

Jeremy Greer:

removing his kidney poorly. And I'm like, Damn dude got him.

Marie Vigouroux:

Did you see how like, the guy, like, the killer,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, looks up at him, like he's so mad. He's like, what?

Jeremy Greer:

There was a, there was a line about him, like, the

Jeremy Greer:

killer, like, taking his MCAT or whatever. Like, he was trying to

Jeremy Greer:

be a doctor. This dude just totally fucking dismissed his

Jeremy Greer:

technique. It's very funny to me.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah I love that. He's like, it because,

Marie Vigouroux:

because, to Hannibal, like, what's what's really upsetting

Marie Vigouroux:

isn't so much that he's removing the kidney, right? It's that

Marie Vigouroux:

he's doing it poorly. He's like, that is so offensive,

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, of course, yeah. It's not, it's not the

Jeremy Greer:

removal of the kidney. It's the it's the actual it's the

Jeremy Greer:

technique involved.

Marie Vigouroux:

Exactly.

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal takes over the surgery as as they

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, I did. I did because I thought about it,

Marie Vigouroux:

arrest the killer throughout all of this. Patria operasa, from

Marie Vigouroux:

Macbeth is playing from Giuseppe Verdi. And I tried to find, I

Marie Vigouroux:

don't know if you ever tried to look through read a plot of an

Marie Vigouroux:

opera before it's it's a it's a lot, it's a lot of proper nouns

Marie Vigouroux:

that you have to figure out. And I couldn't really find any

Marie Vigouroux:

connecting piece to this. And I think they just picked it

Marie Vigouroux:

because it sounds cool, because it does sound extremely,

Marie Vigouroux:

extremely cool. So this just sounds good. I just wanted to

Marie Vigouroux:

mention it, since I've mentioned every other piece of music,

Marie Vigouroux:

mainly because I think this is the first episode that has used

Marie Vigouroux:

any kind of non original music in it, whatsoever. So I thought

Marie Vigouroux:

that was kind of, that's, that's the reason to take taking a deep

Marie Vigouroux:

dive down here. They as this happens, Jack moves to the side

Marie Vigouroux:

of the ambulance, and everybody kind of follows him to collect

Marie Vigouroux:

this murderer. Will is left alone looking inside the

Marie Vigouroux:

ambulance and watching Hannibal work. And as the music kind of

Marie Vigouroux:

swells we we see will observing maybe a little bit more than he

Marie Vigouroux:

usually does. And I put the question in my note, like, does

Marie Vigouroux:

he realize something, and that question was directed at you,

Marie Vigouroux:

Mary, I don't know if you realize

Marie Vigouroux:

and I have some notes about my answers and and the reality is

Marie Vigouroux:

that I'm of two minds here, because one maybe is just like

Marie Vigouroux:

us, maybe, maybe he is just like us, and he just thought that

Marie Vigouroux:

this was incredibly hot. So that's one option, because I'm

Marie Vigouroux:

definitely sitting, like, square right there, or two, he's, he's

Marie Vigouroux:

like, starting to see the outline of a pattern that he's

Marie Vigouroux:

not quite recognizing yet, right? Like we talk about

Marie Vigouroux:

autistic people as being excellent at pattern

Marie Vigouroux:

recognition, and I think that will is particularly good at

Marie Vigouroux:

that, recognizing patterns. And I think that in this moment, he

Marie Vigouroux:

kind of sees something, but he's not quite able to tell what it

Marie Vigouroux:

is yet, maybe a little bit like Bedelia about how she says,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, you know, I see that this isn't you, but, you know, I see

Marie Vigouroux:

the suit, but I don't know what's underneath. Like, I feel

Marie Vigouroux:

like maybe will got a peek behind the veil there, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

But he doesn't quite know what he just saw.

Jeremy Greer:

Maybe he got a peek of the veil, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, of the veil? Maybe, yeah,

Jeremy Greer:

maybe, maybe he is realizing, for the first time,

Jeremy Greer:

as bedilla had to do at some point, that he's has not been

Jeremy Greer:

talking to the real Hannibal, that there could be something

Jeremy Greer:

more there that he actually sees, like you said, see the

Jeremy Greer:

outline of this person suit see the outline of this veil around

Jeremy Greer:

them or something? And who knows? We don't know. There's no

Jeremy Greer:

way to possibly know the answer to that question, until two

Jeremy Greer:

weeks from now, when you listen to Rude Eats #8

Marie Vigouroux:

we're gonna find out, really, oh, my god,

Marie Vigouroux:

okay, okay,

Jeremy Greer:

I don't think it's much of a spoiler to say, like

Jeremy Greer:

the whole show is kind of about will looking at Hannibal and

Jeremy Greer:

going, huh,

Marie Vigouroux:

I think that that kind of creates, like, an

Marie Vigouroux:

interest, and I'm gonna get to that when we get to the next

Marie Vigouroux:

scene. But like, I think that this kind of creates a an

Marie Vigouroux:

interest in will of Hannibal, right? That he was he, because I

Marie Vigouroux:

think in the first episode, he says, like, I don't find you

Marie Vigouroux:

particularly interesting. And then Hannibal says, like, you

Marie Vigouroux:

will,

Jeremy Greer:

yes, yes.

Marie Vigouroux:

And I think that this is where Will is

Marie Vigouroux:

starting to find him interesting.

Jeremy Greer:

It's fascinating. It's fascinating. I wish I

Jeremy Greer:

could. I'm glad I can't. I'm glad I can't. Let me just say

Jeremy Greer:

that it's just fascinating. We will, we will continue to talk,

Jeremy Greer:

do this podcast until there's no more talking about Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

anymore. We go from here to Hannibal's kitchen. He's brought

Jeremy Greer:

in a team of help help us to help him prepare this meal. This

Jeremy Greer:

is the night of his feast, and he is, he's, he's enjoying

Jeremy Greer:

himself. We see him like sauteing meats. We see him

Jeremy Greer:

drinking wine. He tells will who he realizes in the room that

Jeremy Greer:

he's he has a butcher that can get him sow's blood, which he

Jeremy Greer:

blends and uses to create a a transparent liquid that he can

Jeremy Greer:

suspend fruit in for a for a very sweet treat at the end of

Jeremy Greer:

the meal. This is why, when you said that this episode was

Jeremy Greer:

fruity, I was like, sometimes quite literally, like, he's, you

Jeremy Greer:

know, literally serving sweet treats at the end of this made

Jeremy Greer:

with fruit. Will is there, not dressed for a dinner party, but

Jeremy Greer:

with a bottle of wine, which even looks weird, just holding a

Jeremy Greer:

bottle of wine. It's so strange. And he says he's not coming, but

Jeremy Greer:

he does say that Hannibal saved the this guy, the guy's life.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, if it wasn't for him, the guy that the being operated on,

Jeremy Greer:

wouldn't have survived. And Will says, you know, I forgot that

Jeremy Greer:

you were surgeon. Why did you why did you quit? And Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

says, and I think I actually spoiled this for you last

Jeremy Greer:

episode. So apologies, but he quit because he lost a patient.

Jeremy Greer:

He lost a patient which will says, like, oh, you know, that

Jeremy Greer:

had to happen all the time. He's like, Well, it happened one too

Jeremy Greer:

many times. So he changed his passion from anatomy to the

Jeremy Greer:

culinary arts, and he started becoming a psychiatrist. And he

Jeremy Greer:

says, no one has died for my therapy.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yet

Jeremy Greer:

yet. But also, like, we don't know, like, we

Jeremy Greer:

don't know about these victims. And like, one of the things that

Jeremy Greer:

they were trying to Miriam was tracking down was, like his

Jeremy Greer:

relationship with his patients, right? Like, that was one of the

Jeremy Greer:

things that we're looking at. So who knows? Maybe other people

Jeremy Greer:

have died so well, yeah, so,

Marie Vigouroux:

yes, who knows? That's right, I think so. Again,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, I think Franklin is in danger, like he is in critical

Marie Vigouroux:

danger right now, like, to be served as fromage, like that is

Marie Vigouroux:

what I think might be happening. But I also think that, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal is also so good at, like, telling these half truths,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? So I I wrote in my notes, like, I need to know more about

Marie Vigouroux:

this, because, like, I'm sure that there's, like, a part of

Marie Vigouroux:

truth here. So I think that maybe no one has died. That was

Marie Vigouroux:

his therapy patient, right? But there's also definitely

Marie Vigouroux:

something behind the veil. So, like, people have probably died

Marie Vigouroux:

from other things than his therapy, right? So, like, I Yes,

Marie Vigouroux:

there you go. So so good

Jeremy Greer:

will says that he's not going to be able to

Jeremy Greer:

attend a dinner because he has a quote, unquote date with the

Jeremy Greer:

Ripper, who obviously was not the organ harvester. And

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal says Jack must be devastated, because he lost his

Jeremy Greer:

opportunity to, you know, catch the Ripper. Your note in here is

Jeremy Greer:

incredible. And I want you to talk about, I just read it, and

Jeremy Greer:

I was like, What the fuck, what is this? Because I don't, I know

Jeremy Greer:

AO3, but I don't like, spend a lot of time on ao three, so I've

Jeremy Greer:

never seen this tag before. I'm just fascinated.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay, so, like, I wrote that like, so, because

Marie Vigouroux:

your last note is like, Jack must be devastated. And I'm

Marie Vigouroux:

like, Hannibal is devastated here because, like, will

Marie Vigouroux:

basically has a date with him, but he doesn't know that it's

Marie Vigouroux:

him. And I'm like, this would be tagged as a two person love

Marie Vigouroux:

triangle.

Jeremy Greer:

I love it. I love it. Absolutely. We adore this.

Jeremy Greer:

So fun.

Marie Vigouroux:

Think of like, You've got mail. That's a two

Marie Vigouroux:

person love triangle. Okay,

Jeremy Greer:

all right, yeah, I'm with you. Okay, okay, cool,

Jeremy Greer:

cool, cool. So

Marie Vigouroux:

that's, that's what's going on, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Literally, where, like, the Ripper is Hannibal, but will

Marie Vigouroux:

doesn't know that the Ripper is Hannibal. Hannibal knows that

Marie Vigouroux:

the Ripper is Hannibal, and he really wants will, but will

Marie Vigouroux:

wants the Ripper. Like, there you go. That's your two person

Marie Vigouroux:

love triangle.

Jeremy Greer:

This is so good. And will leaves, he kind of

Jeremy Greer:

smiles at Hannibal and then leaves,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? He smiles at Hannibal, and I don't

Marie Vigouroux:

like, have we seen will smile before in this show?

Jeremy Greer:

not often, right? There you

Marie Vigouroux:

There you go. Because he definitely, like

Marie Vigouroux:

forces a smile here when he leaves like and like, he's

Marie Vigouroux:

making eye contact with Hannibal, like, and I just like

Marie Vigouroux:

the fact that he came, like, to bring a bottle of wine. Like,

Marie Vigouroux:

again, maybe he really did think that the surgery thing was just

Marie Vigouroux:

hot, like, really interesting to me.

Jeremy Greer:

Or he suspects, he suspects something, right? Like

Jeremy Greer:

he got a peek of the veil, and so he's, he's, he's, he's

Jeremy Greer:

worried about it.

Marie Vigouroux:

But would he, but would he show up if he was

Marie Vigouroux:

worried? No, you show up with a bottle of wine because you're

Marie Vigouroux:

interested. I'm sorry.

Jeremy Greer:

I'll, yeah, I'll agree with you there. I can't, I

Jeremy Greer:

can't argue.

Marie Vigouroux:

Do you show up at like, serial killers homes

Marie Vigouroux:

with a bottle of wine. Or do you show up like, at somebody's home

Marie Vigouroux:

with a bottle of wine when you're interested in them? You

Marie Vigouroux:

know what I mean?

Jeremy Greer:

Like, either, either socially or personally,

Jeremy Greer:

or, you know, romantically or whatever. Yeah, you bring the

Jeremy Greer:

wine when you want to bond with the person that, when you are

Jeremy Greer:

worried that they are a serial killer. You're absolutely right,

Jeremy Greer:

although you know will, different is all I'm saying.

Jeremy Greer:

Will is a little different. Remember, Beverly, like you're a

Jeremy Greer:

little different. We covered Jack, who is stared at the wall

Jeremy Greer:

of the Ripper kills, and he finally leaves the morgue

Jeremy Greer:

without any kind of interruption, and we get this

Jeremy Greer:

final scene of a long camera sweep over Hannibal's table,

Jeremy Greer:

where we can see all of the delicious dishes that he has

Jeremy Greer:

made. I hope they actually got to eat this dinner. I must try

Jeremy Greer:

to look that up. But like, Jesus Christ, like, I hope that, like

Jeremy Greer:

the cast, just like, got to have this dinner, right? Like, it

Jeremy Greer:

looks so good, and because I've been on such a music kick on

Jeremy Greer:

this, was like, well, this sounds like opera, and people

Jeremy Greer:

who listen to podcasts might recognize this track. Jake did a

Jeremy Greer:

fantastic remix. Did, like, some scratching on it too, which was

Jeremy Greer:

sick. And I use that as the outro of every song every

Jeremy Greer:

podcast. And I was like, I wonder what this is from. I

Jeremy Greer:

wonder if there's like, this is celebrating a big no no. This is

Jeremy Greer:

just an original music track for this song that show Hannibal.

Jeremy Greer:

This is Brian redzell doing his thing, and that's so good. And I

Jeremy Greer:

kind of love this. The camera pans up and we see Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

basking in the glory. Everyone's applauding him, including Alana,

Jeremy Greer:

who was, who was there. I was actually, I think they just

Jeremy Greer:

filled this in, like, the lady from the opera is there too. I

Jeremy Greer:

was surprised that Chilton wasn't here. Kind of expected

Jeremy Greer:

him to be, even though, and it's a very like adventures in game

Jeremy Greer:

kind of way of like, let's get all of the team to mix together

Jeremy Greer:

or whatever. But like, fine that he isn't, and he says, There

Jeremy Greer:

must, I must warn you first, that nothing here is vegetarian,

Jeremy Greer:

and at least everybody says Bon appetit.

Marie Vigouroux:

I was like, just like our podcast,

Jeremy Greer:

just like the podcast.

Marie Vigouroux:

I love that so much. Thank you for doing that.

Marie Vigouroux:

That was such a great idea. I saw that, and I was like, Jeremy

Marie Vigouroux:

is so smart. That was my first thought. I was like, thank you

Marie Vigouroux:

so much for doing that. I love it. It's also so extra,

Marie Vigouroux:

extremely

Jeremy Greer:

extremely extra. Yeah, this is so good. And this

Jeremy Greer:

is, I think we've we've seen like implications that he's

Jeremy Greer:

feeding people human meat, right? Like we've seen at a

Jeremy Greer:

dinner with Jack, where he talks about a rabbit. And we see him

Jeremy Greer:

like hunting down somebody in the woods. We see, we've seen

Jeremy Greer:

him harvest organs, but not necessarily directly feed them

Jeremy Greer:

afterwards. This is, I think, our very first like underlined

Jeremy Greer:

confirmation that he is killing people with express purpose of

Jeremy Greer:

harvesting their organs to turn them into dishes to feed his his

Marie Vigouroux:

Thanks for the reminder. I appreciate it,

Marie Vigouroux:

friends and acquaintances and his social circle, including

Marie Vigouroux:

maybe one of his romantic interests, Alana and just awful.

Marie Vigouroux:

You shouldn't feed people human meat. I don't know if I need to

Marie Vigouroux:

tell you that you should probably hurt you should

Marie Vigouroux:

probably heard that before in your life, but you shouldn't do this.

Jeremy Greer:

but also, how fucking cool is this. Like, how

Jeremy Greer:

evil and just like, kind of

Marie Vigouroux:

so evil.

Jeremy Greer:

I want to say delicious, but I shouldn't say

Jeremy Greer:

delicious to describe this, but just how, like, incredibly

Jeremy Greer:

satisfying, satisfyingly evil is this?

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, you know, it's, I think it's one of

Marie Vigouroux:

those, like, unspeak like, because this show is a lot about

Marie Vigouroux:

like, the unspeakable, right? Um, we, and there was a an

Marie Vigouroux:

actual the unmentionables, I think, right, like an actual

Marie Vigouroux:

conversation about that. And I think that this is kind of like

Marie Vigouroux:

one of those things where, I think we've all fantasized

Marie Vigouroux:

about, like doing something that is absolutely unmentionable,

Marie Vigouroux:

just like out of pettiness or revenge or whatever. Like, just

Marie Vigouroux:

and like, most people won't actually act on that, which you

Marie Vigouroux:

know is probably for the best, but Hannibal does. And there's

Marie Vigouroux:

something like, I don't know there's something like, kind of

Marie Vigouroux:

titillating almost about, like, this human being that does those

Marie Vigouroux:

things that, like most of us would never do, right? Because

Marie Vigouroux:

we find them to be, like, evil and repulsive, and yet, like he,

Marie Vigouroux:

gives into his most, like, most base, like animalistic, almost,

Marie Vigouroux:

instincts. I don't know. I think that there's something to

Marie Vigouroux:

explore there.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah. I mean, that's the reason that, like,

Jeremy Greer:

you know, villains are hot, right? Like, I think that's the

Jeremy Greer:

reason that people look at the villains of Disney movies and

Jeremy Greer:

go, Yeah, I would take that now, no problem. I got that.

Marie Vigouroux:

I remember after Moana came out, and, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

people were like, I want to fuck the crab. Yeah, I get that.

Jeremy Greer:

I haven't seen Moana, but, like, I definitely

Jeremy Greer:

don't have any sort of surprise at that anymore, whatsoever.

Jeremy Greer:

Doing a doing a podcast about Dark Souls for so long, you

Jeremy Greer:

realize that there's a healthy part of that community that

Jeremy Greer:

wants to fuck the old werewolf guy. So like,

Marie Vigouroux:

that makes sense, yeah?

Jeremy Greer:

I did a whole podcast about that. We had four

Marie Vigouroux:

wanting to fuck the old werewolf guy?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, this is again, off topic. And I

Jeremy Greer:

apologize for episode 69 of my old podcast, don't give up

Jeremy Greer:

skeleton, I called it nice. And I got a bunch of like, fanfic

Jeremy Greer:

writers on to talk about, like, their relationship with blah,

Jeremy Greer:

blah, blah, like all of the characters and, like, Sure, the

Jeremy Greer:

romantic interest and the shipping and things like that.

Jeremy Greer:

And then for Episode 169 I did spice, and I did all of the old

Jeremy Greer:

man monster fucking kind of stuff, like I got fanfic writers

Jeremy Greer:

and artists and stuff that depicted that stuff and

Jeremy Greer:

interviewed them about it on one podcast. And that was pretty

Jeremy Greer:

fun. It's pretty good.

Marie Vigouroux:

That's very cool.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it was. If you want to hear about monster

Jeremy Greer:

fucking, don't give up skeleton.com/ 169, this episode

Jeremy Greer:

is so good, and it leaves our characters in such a such

Jeremy Greer:

interesting places. I think Jack is like, missed his opportunity

Jeremy Greer:

again. It's something that the show doesn't underline very

Jeremy Greer:

well. Like we see him walking away and like looking at the

Jeremy Greer:

Ripper, but like at the beginning of the episode, he was

Jeremy Greer:

like, He's gonna kill three. I think this is the first. This is

Jeremy Greer:

my opportunity to kill him. I will not lose it. And he's lost

Jeremy Greer:

it so and we're seeing him slowly becoming unraveled.

Jeremy Greer:

Something is up with will. We don't quite know what? Either

Jeremy Greer:

he's falling in love, or he's seen Hannibal in a different

Jeremy Greer:

way, or maybe both. Alana seems to be being seduced by Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

in a weird way. Can't wait to see where that's going. And,

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, just like again, to take it all back to our performance

Jeremy Greer:

theme, just Hannibal putting on a literal performance at the end

Jeremy Greer:

after spending the whole episode performing for other people in

Jeremy Greer:

different roles, is fascinating to me.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah. I mean, I don't have, I don't have much

Marie Vigouroux:

else to say about this episode, apart from the fact that it was

Marie Vigouroux:

absolutely amazing. Was absolutely amazing, and yeah,

Marie Vigouroux:

probably my favorite episode so far that we have seen together.

Marie Vigouroux:

mind blowing.

Jeremy Greer:

What else could happen in the show to make you

Jeremy Greer:

like it even more? I wonder out loud with my mouth, hmm, what

Jeremy Greer:

else could possibly happen. I cannot wait to watch Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

season one, episode eight, later tonight with my wife. I gotta

Jeremy Greer:

have a good time.

Marie Vigouroux:

all right, are we? Is there anything else that

Marie Vigouroux:

you want to bring up before we move on to the review section?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, have a 45 minute dissertation about the

Jeremy Greer:

the opera. No kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Let's,

Jeremy Greer:

Let's jump into reviews.

Jeremy Greer:

All right, let's, let's leave with your review. Mary,

Marie Vigouroux:

so I am going to give this episode four stars.

Marie Vigouroux:

I would give it more 10 stars if I could, because, like I said,

Marie Vigouroux:

it's my favorite so far. So with its fruity notes of blood red

Marie Vigouroux:

berries and its hint of loneliness, the sweet and sour

Marie Vigouroux:

sorbet provided a timely and deviously refreshing break from

Marie Vigouroux:

the exquisite meal we've been having so far.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm also going to give it four stars. I consider

Jeremy Greer:

this a welcome fruity break for montereys filled with organ

Jeremy Greer:

meat. Yum, yum, yum. Thank you everybody for listening. We very

Jeremy Greer:

much appreciate it. If you would like to support us, you can do

Jeremy Greer:

so by leaving ratings and reviews on Apple podcasts or

Jeremy Greer:

commenting on and liking us on Spotify, and more importantly,

Jeremy Greer:

just telling all of your cannibal friends like, hey,

Jeremy Greer:

these guys don't judge you. You eat human meat, and these

Jeremy Greer:

podcasters won't judge you for that, so you should go listen.

Marie Vigouroux:

They'll Probably find you hot for it.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, we probably find you a little sexy depending

Jeremy Greer:

on the way you're dressed while you're cooking human meat. For

Jeremy Greer:

me,

Marie Vigouroux:

exactly

Jeremy Greer:

so rudeeats.cool is the place you can find all of

Jeremy Greer:

our past episodes. Mary. Where else can yoube found on the

Jeremy Greer:

internet?

Marie Vigouroux:

I can be found at @maryturner_ on Twitter and

Marie Vigouroux:

at @carryingwayward if you're interested in a supernatural

Marie Vigouroux:

podcast, and the gentleman pirates library if you like our

Marie Vigouroux:

flag means death. What about you? Jeremy,

Jeremy Greer:

I'm at @jggreer on Twitter. You can find all of my

Jeremy Greer:

podcasts about supernatural Merlin X Files. And what is the

Jeremy Greer:

most recent Cowboy Bebop is the most recent one we are putting

Jeremy Greer:

out publicly. We can find all of those at

Jeremy Greer:

creepybutnecessary.cool, and we'll be back in a couple more

Jeremy Greer:

weeks. And until then, remember to that's not that's not the way

Jeremy Greer:

that that goes.

Marie Vigouroux:

Stay spooky, stay hungry!

Jeremy Greer:

right? We'll be back in a couple of weeks, and

Jeremy Greer:

until Then, bon appetit.

Marie Vigouroux:

Bon appetit, everybody.

Marie Vigouroux:

Hi,

Jeremy Greer:

good morning.

Marie Vigouroux:

Good morning. How are you today?

Jeremy Greer:

I'm - still early. I got up. I got up super early,

Jeremy Greer:

though, but I'm okay. I'm doing well. I ordered all the

Jeremy Greer:

groceries so,

Marie Vigouroux:

oh, that's good.

Jeremy Greer:

They're done.

Marie Vigouroux:

That's really good. Did you have to use any

Marie Vigouroux:

business cards for that? Or

Jeremy Greer:

no, no, no, no business cards. What do you

Jeremy Greer:

Oh no. I mean, all he would have to do would be like, go to I

Jeremy Greer:

think Hannibal does when he runs out of rude people? Probably

Jeremy Greer:

doesn't happen. Huh, like in a modern society, just doesn't happen.

Jeremy Greer:

don't know. Where are people rude?

Jeremy Greer:

The best buy, you know, it's, maybe we should. This is

Jeremy Greer:

probably podcast material, not outtakes material, but like,

Jeremy Greer:

it's, it was interesting to me that all of his business cards

Jeremy Greer:

were like management and not retail service workers. You know

Jeremy Greer:

what I'm saying?

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, I did like that.

Jeremy Greer:

people that, like, own the place were shitty. Not

Jeremy Greer:

people that, like, are working for minimum wage or something,

Marie Vigouroux:

you know. So because of the transcripts that

Marie Vigouroux:

I've been doing, I I'm real listening, like, in depth to

Marie Vigouroux:

everything that we've recorded so far. And one of the things

Marie Vigouroux:

that we were saying was that, like, you know, forget, eat the

Marie Vigouroux:

rich. It has to be eat the rude. But I think maybe you were right

Marie Vigouroux:

when you said, Maybe both.

Jeremy Greer:

Can do both, yeah, well, the richest, the rich, are

Jeremy Greer:

often rude, right? Like, I think that's the that's what it comes

Marie Vigouroux:

yeah, I think so. All right, hold on. What am

Marie Vigouroux:

down to,

Marie Vigouroux:

I looking for? What am I why? Why is this so difficult today?

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh yeah. Sorbet okay. I've got my notes up like, Oh my God.

Jeremy Greer:

I added, I'm gonna go ahead and start recording in

Jeremy Greer:

Zencaster sure added a bunch of stuff to the bottom. I want to

Jeremy Greer:

talk about some of the Music in this episode, not extensively,

Jeremy Greer:

but I think I was telling autumn, like, I just added a

Jeremy Greer:

paragraph worth of notes, so we're probably gonna get off the

Jeremy Greer:

rails on this one. She's like, good. I want you to, she's like,

Jeremy Greer:

I've watched this episode three times with you know, I want you

Jeremy Greer:

to get off the rails on it, not actually three, two times. And

Jeremy Greer:

then I fast forward this morning. Yeah, it's gonna be

Jeremy Greer:

fun.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, it's a good thing we have the outtakes

Marie Vigouroux:

because, like, I am not used to speaking to human beings that

Marie Vigouroux:

are not my child, like, 815 in the morning on a Sunday morning,

Jeremy Greer:

gotta warm up the pipes. Gotta get them loosey

Jeremy Greer:

goosey. I know, right? This is how outtakes started with me and

Jeremy Greer:

Chris, basically. Well, I mean, technically, it started with

Jeremy Greer:

just, like, shit, dumb shit, we would say. And then, like, it

Jeremy Greer:

just started becoming like, oh, let's warm up the pipes and just

Jeremy Greer:

have a conversation. And then we just became, like, a third

Jeremy Greer:

became like a 30 minute comvo before the podcast

Marie Vigouroux:

And people love it, right?

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, yeah, people seem to enjoy it.

Marie Vigouroux:

what are your plans for today?

Jeremy Greer:

As little as possible.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, good.

Jeremy Greer:

Autumn. Is planning on making dumplings

Jeremy Greer:

today, and then we're going to prepare to make like, like a

Jeremy Greer:

Greek feast tomorrow. So we're doing, like, some chicken

Jeremy Greer:

shawarma. We bought pita, but we might just make our own pita.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, we've got one of those pizza oven things so we can kind

Jeremy Greer:

of flash them real quick. She's found some recipe for like, a.

Jeremy Greer:

Greek style potato salad. So we'll do something like that,

Jeremy Greer:

and then this is coming out way later. Yeah, Chris and I are

Jeremy Greer:

gonna, are trying to do some, like, Halloween stuff for

Jeremy Greer:

October. So I told him, the original plan was like, Let's do

Jeremy Greer:

I'll choose two horror movies, and you choose two horror

Jeremy Greer:

movies, and we'll release, like one a week. And then we started

Jeremy Greer:

doing Game of Thrones. And I was like, You know what? Let's do.

Jeremy Greer:

I'll do one. And his fiancee, Jess, requested that we do

Jeremy Greer:

commentary for Twilight, the first Twilight movie. And I've

Jeremy Greer:

never seen any Twilight movies, so I've never read any books. So

Jeremy Greer:

I'm it's been a thing for a while that we talk about. So I'm

Jeremy Greer:

probably going to try to convince Autumn to watch Pearl,

Jeremy Greer:

which is a slasher movie from Thai West, and Mia Goth, which

Jeremy Greer:

is one of my favorites.

Marie Vigouroux:

that is so exciting. I'm also somebody who

Marie Vigouroux:

hasn't seen or read any of the Twilight books, movies

Jeremy Greer:

really

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah,

Jeremy Greer:

Wow, that's so,

Marie Vigouroux:

I know, that's so rare

Jeremy Greer:

I expect it to - So it's such a, it's just like

Jeremy Greer:

a, like a fandom thing, right? Like, even, like in the genres

Jeremy Greer:

that you and I deal in, like it's such a, such a huge one.

Marie Vigouroux:

I know Rochelle actually, really wants me to

Marie Vigouroux:

watch Twilight for carrying wayward actually, it's just

Marie Vigouroux:

like, you have to,

Jeremy Greer:

now you can watch it with Jeremy and Chris talking

Jeremy Greer:

over on the top of it. So that'll be even better.

Marie Vigouroux:

I do think that that'll make it better.

Jeremy Greer:

It has to make it like somewhat, but I can't wait.

Jeremy Greer:

We did the thing with we did that with Shrek, and I'd never

Jeremy Greer:

seen Shrek

Marie Vigouroux:

You'd never seen Shrek.

Jeremy Greer:

I've never seen Shrek, I know.

Marie Vigouroux:

What?

Jeremy Greer:

And it was, it was such an experience, because,

Jeremy Greer:

like, That movie is not aimed at like 40 year old dudes by any

Jeremy Greer:

stretch of the imagination. Like, I think that movie is

Jeremy Greer:

aimed at like a certain generation, and has become like

Jeremy Greer:

a thing for 40 year old dudes who have watched it their entire

Jeremy Greer:

lives. And I am not that guy. So I was just like, What is this

Jeremy Greer:

disgusting green animal like I was just horrified by the entire

Jeremy Greer:

thing so gross. So I'm really looking forward to Twilight

Jeremy Greer:

being very similar, just being like, What in the fuck is going

Jeremy Greer:

on? What is what is happening?

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, I mean, Twilight is definitely not aimed

Marie Vigouroux:

at 40 year old dudes, either to be fair. So you are not the

Marie Vigouroux:

target audience for that, definitely. But I did read a

Marie Vigouroux:

tweet, uh, somebody was talking about how Shrek was actually,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, pretty, um, like, a big change in in the way that we

Marie Vigouroux:

told fairy tales, because they were, like, it showed that,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, you didn't have to be pretty in order to be good,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? Like, good and pretty don't necessarily go together.

Jeremy Greer:

I like that. Hadn't thought about that. I try

Jeremy Greer:

to think about a Shrek as little as possible in my daily life.

Marie Vigouroux:

You know that now, like all the kids hear the

Marie Vigouroux:

Smash Mouth song and they're like, oh, it's the Shrek song.

Marie Vigouroux:

And I'm like, it was a song before!

Jeremy Greer:

It was a song before you guys co opted it.

Jeremy Greer:

This was our music.

Marie Vigouroux:

This was our music. It's so funny. Like, we

Marie Vigouroux:

used to sing it in I was in high school, and we used to, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

just sing it in the hallways, like, sitting down,

Jeremy Greer:

yeah? Like, that song was, like, a was, like an

Jeremy Greer:

earworm, right? Like, it was, like the Chumbawamba song, like,

Jeremy Greer:

that thing just never that thing never died. So, yeah,

Marie Vigouroux:

it was lovely. Oh, my God, I'm feeling all

Marie Vigouroux:

nostalgic for high school. Like, who am I? What is happening

Jeremy Greer:

the high school I graduated from, it looks so much

Jeremy Greer:

like a prison from the outside, just like, just big, huge square

Jeremy Greer:

boxes next to each other, like cinder block, square boxes that

Jeremy Greer:

were just painted in, like, the ugliest beige color you can

Jeremy Greer:

imagine. And I happen to be back up there, like I live three or

Jeremy Greer:

four hours from it now, and I happen to be back up there. So I

Jeremy Greer:

was like, You know what? Let's let's see what the old nostalgia

Jeremy Greer:

button will produce. And I drove by, and I guess they closed the

Jeremy Greer:

fucker down, like it's not even a school anymore. And I was

Jeremy Greer:

like, oh, okay, well, see you later.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh no,

Jeremy Greer:

it's how much I keep up with all of my old high

Jeremy Greer:

school friends, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, clearly, my high school was right next to

Marie Vigouroux:

a cemetery.

Jeremy Greer:

Excellent.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, exactly. And so we would always say that,

Marie Vigouroux:

like once we were done with high school, that's where we would

Marie Vigouroux:

all end up anyway,

Jeremy Greer:

hanging out with the goth kids

Marie Vigouroux:

the existential dread of the early 2000s

Jeremy Greer:

I got out a little bit before that. I graduated in

Jeremy Greer:

98 so I was, I was a little bit ahead of you, and so I never

Jeremy Greer:

hit, like, the early, like, existential crisis, 2000s but we

Jeremy Greer:

were, we were all, like, told that everything would be

Jeremy Greer:

possible if you went to college. That was the big thing. Like,

Jeremy Greer:

you just go to college and, like, your life is set. Like,

Jeremy Greer:

that was the like, you have to go to college no matter what.

Jeremy Greer:

And I was like, I just didn't want to do that. Like, I was

Jeremy Greer:

like, I don't want to do any more of this. This sucks. And I

Jeremy Greer:

liked learning and everything. I just didn't like school. So it

Jeremy Greer:

was kind of a weird situation.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, yeah, well, I mean, yes, I have a lot of

Marie Vigouroux:

thoughts about how those two things aren't like, don't know.

Marie Vigouroux:

Necessarily go together, unfortunately, right? Learning

Marie Vigouroux:

in school, like, there, they can be separate. You can learn

Marie Vigouroux:

without going to school

Jeremy Greer:

I'm playing this very weird video game called

Jeremy Greer:

Harold halibut, and you, it's, you play the character Harold

Jeremy Greer:

halibut. And right now, like, we're in a weird, like,

Jeremy Greer:

spaceship that crashed under the sea, and we've been here for 100

Jeremy Greer:

years, and I'm like, the janitor or whatever. So I'm just like,

Jeremy Greer:

I'm just like walking around and talking to people. And one of

Jeremy Greer:

the conversations I had recently was with this kid. And the kid

Jeremy Greer:

was like, you know, I really don't like going to school or

Jeremy Greer:

whatever, you know, I found, like, I learned more stuff on my

Jeremy Greer:

own and doing in my own way. And your character Harold is like,

Jeremy Greer:

well, you know, you can do both, like, you could go to school and

Jeremy Greer:

learn what they teach you and learn you know stuff on your

Jeremy Greer:

own. And the kid says, I guess it would be good to know

Jeremy Greer:

everything. Just started laughing. It's just such a good

Jeremy Greer:

line. Like, oh, that's the way to learn everything school and

Jeremy Greer:

on my own.

Marie Vigouroux:

That is so sweet. I love it so much. Oh, my

Marie Vigouroux:

God.

Jeremy Greer:

It's a very weird game. Like, so far, it's

Jeremy Greer:

literally just walking around and doing conversations. It's

Jeremy Greer:

very strange. I found a weird alien. So I'm trying to get him

Jeremy Greer:

healed up so I can talk to a weird alien guy.

Marie Vigouroux:

Of course you would find a weird alien.

Jeremy Greer:

Of course,

Marie Vigouroux:

nothing has made more sense in the things

Marie Vigouroux:

that you've told me, like, all week. Of course you found a

Marie Vigouroux:

weird alien guy.

Jeremy Greer:

Do you have any big plans for the day?

Marie Vigouroux:

I think I'm gonna try again for the flour

Marie Vigouroux:

guy. Okay? Because I'm feeling much more energized than I was

Marie Vigouroux:

the last time I tried to do that. So I'm gonna go,

Jeremy Greer:

Have you been a bread making fool lately?

Marie Vigouroux:

I know I actually it's so funny that you

Marie Vigouroux:

said you wanted to make pita with with Autumn, because I I've

Marie Vigouroux:

been like, kind of looking at my supply of flour, which is very,

Marie Vigouroux:

very low at the moment, but I was like, I really want to make

Marie Vigouroux:

pitas. Because, like, I made, I actually made, like, Chicken

Marie Vigouroux:

Shawarma this week.

Jeremy Greer:

Nice. Okay.

Marie Vigouroux:

And I was like, damn it, I don't have, like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

don't have enough flour to make pitas. But anyway, so that's

Marie Vigouroux:

something that I definitely want to try at some point. And I

Marie Vigouroux:

think I might do that this week, because 10 year old, who will

Marie Vigouroux:

probably be 11 by the time this comes out, I know loves pita

Marie Vigouroux:

bread.

Jeremy Greer:

Of course. Yeah. Pita bread is delicious. Yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

Apart from that, I've got some cleaning and

Marie Vigouroux:

I gotta make some I bought a big box of tomatoes, so I gotta

Marie Vigouroux:

process those Make, make and freeze soup and make and freeze

Marie Vigouroux:

sauce.

Jeremy Greer:

Love it, absolutely love it. Vacuum

Jeremy Greer:

sealers changed our life. We when the I think there's right

Jeremy Greer:

on quarantine. When we got the vacuum sealer and, like, bought

Jeremy Greer:

a deep freeze, we're like, we're gonna make, you know, we're

Jeremy Greer:

gonna make gumbo for 18 years and put it all in the freezer

Jeremy Greer:

and make a, we will have gumbo. So, yeah, that's we love doing

Jeremy Greer:

stuff like that. We love making, like, a big pot of something and

Jeremy Greer:

just spin it up because it makes it so easy. Like, you know, it's

Jeremy Greer:

a Thursday night. Like, neither of us really want to cook. So

Jeremy Greer:

like, oh, we have a bolognese sauce. Let's heat up some pasta

Jeremy Greer:

and heat up some sauce, and now you have a delicious fucking

Jeremy Greer:

meal that you made, you know, two months ago or whatever.

Marie Vigouroux:

no, honestly, I've been doing that more and

Marie Vigouroux:

more just because I love the convenience of it. Like, there's

Marie Vigouroux:

some days where I'm just so exhausted, but I want to eat

Marie Vigouroux:

well,

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, and having those, like, prepared things are

Jeremy Greer:

super I mean, it's just, it's so useful, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Exactly, I don't have a deep freezer,

Marie Vigouroux:

though, so I only have, like, my little freezer, so I have to be

Marie Vigouroux:

really, really smart kind of stuff I put in there. So yeah,

Marie Vigouroux:

but I started also making and freezing bread so that I have

Marie Vigouroux:

like, fresh homemade bread whenever I want, um, yes, which

Marie Vigouroux:

is really great.

Jeremy Greer:

I need to, I need to start freezing bread. I never

Jeremy Greer:

think about that. I never think about that. That's like, a

Jeremy Greer:

thing.

Marie Vigouroux:

It is a thing, and it works really well. Like,

Marie Vigouroux:

after that, you just, like, let it thaw. But you can also, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

just pop it in the oven for like, just a few minutes so that

Marie Vigouroux:

it's, like, warm.

Jeremy Greer:

Perfect, perfect.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, exactly. Definitely. Something to do, I

Marie Vigouroux:

think. Anyway,

Jeremy Greer:

I want to tell you about a documentary I watched

Jeremy Greer:

yesterday that has that is strangely connected to Hannibal.

Jeremy Greer:

Have you ever heard of Dr Anne Burgess?

Marie Vigouroux:

The name rings a bell, but I wouldn't be able

Marie Vigouroux:

to tell you who she is.

Jeremy Greer:

So she's like, apparently, this extremely

Jeremy Greer:

famous is probably not a good word, but she's a very well

Jeremy Greer:

known woman who was in the 60s. Developed like, she started

Jeremy Greer:

listening to rape victims for the first time, sexual assault

Jeremy Greer:

victims for the first time, and became and like, organized all

Jeremy Greer:

of this information and like, with academic ways, and wrote a

Jeremy Greer:

book about it. And like, started organizing, like, different

Jeremy Greer:

methods for women to be able to report that and be believed and

Jeremy Greer:

things like that. So she releases this book, and then she

Jeremy Greer:

gets a random call in the early 80s from the FBI, and they're

Jeremy Greer:

like. Hey, we want you to come. We want you to come teach a

Jeremy Greer:

class. And she's like, okay, so she goes to the FBI, and she

Jeremy Greer:

starts teaching this class on, like, listening to victims and

Jeremy Greer:

like, obviously, like, the feedback was not great, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Like, a room full of men who were like, you know, kind of

Jeremy Greer:

joking around about the sexual assault thing, and they probably

Jeremy Greer:

wanted it and things like that. But the more that she started,

Jeremy Greer:

like, showing them the data, the more they started to believe. So

Jeremy Greer:

they were starting to, like, look at these cases differently.

Jeremy Greer:

And it's in the documentary, like, the way this is presented

Jeremy Greer:

is like, and I guess I knew this, but like seeing it, like

Jeremy Greer:

seeing the fact that they would get reported sexual assault

Jeremy Greer:

cases and be like, Nope, not gonna, not gonna investigate.

Jeremy Greer:

Just would put it to the side, right. Like, horrifying. So her

Jeremy Greer:

doing those classes at the FBI leads to her having a connection

Jeremy Greer:

with Robert Ressler, who, at the time was in the head of the

Jeremy Greer:

Behavioral Science Unit, which was brand new and had no actual

Jeremy Greer:

science behind it whatsoever. So if you've seen the show

Jeremy Greer:

mindhunters on Netflix, this is that right? Like, this is, this

Jeremy Greer:

is them learning how to talk to serial killers. So they were,

Jeremy Greer:

they were going in and interviewing the serial killers

Jeremy Greer:

that they had captured and talking to them and getting this

Jeremy Greer:

information and trying to figure out how to use that in order to

Jeremy Greer:

catch more serial killers. Well, then they get this woman, this

Jeremy Greer:

consultant, like, not even an FBI agent, Dr Ann Burgess and

Jeremy Greer:

and she's like, You guys are doing this all wrong. And she

Jeremy Greer:

she develops a like, 57 page questionnaire, because

Jeremy Greer:

obviously, like, you have to they were just sitting down and

Jeremy Greer:

having conversations with these people. But like, she was like,

Jeremy Greer:

No, you have to ask them the same questions so that we can

Jeremy Greer:

get this the correct data. We can start correlating all of

Jeremy Greer:

this stuff.

Marie Vigouroux:

We can standardize it

Jeremy Greer:

Exactly, yeah. And so she does that, which leads to

Jeremy Greer:

Creation of their ability to actually put together, like

Jeremy Greer:

profiles of killers, which then, in like the 1980s there was a

Jeremy Greer:

ski mask rapist in South Louisiana. So she comes down and

Jeremy Greer:

doesn't talk to any of the really, the police. In fact, the

Jeremy Greer:

police were like, Hey, you have someone called the FBI. I'm

Jeremy Greer:

like, you have someone down here impersonating the FBI. Like, no,

Jeremy Greer:

no, she's good. She's cool. Like, let her do what she wants.

Jeremy Greer:

So she talks to all of the victims and develops this

Jeremy Greer:

profile, which was used, like, one of the cops in South

Jeremy Greer:

Louisiana, and, like, use this stuff from the profile two

Jeremy Greer:

months later to catch the guy. So, huge win. So this goes on

Jeremy Greer:

for years and years and years, and they eventually realize,

Jeremy Greer:

like, Hey, we've been like, they're getting so many requests

Jeremy Greer:

for profiles. They're like, we need to start teaching this to

Jeremy Greer:

other people, not just the FBI and like. So they wrote a book,

Jeremy Greer:

and the book is called Sexual homicide patterns and motives,

Jeremy Greer:

and that's the book that Silence of the Lambs is based on.

Marie Vigouroux:

No! Oh my god!

Jeremy Greer:

Robert Ressler. Is the kind of, the formative

Jeremy Greer:

version of Jack Crawford, which is kind of crazy, like I was

Jeremy Greer:

watching this documentary. I'm like, Holy shit, this is not

Jeremy Greer:

going to be literally about, oh, it's about Hannibal, okay. It's

Jeremy Greer:

about,

Marie Vigouroux:

don't you love it in life when things just kind

Marie Vigouroux:

of, like, line up this way, like, the serendipity of it all,

Marie Vigouroux:

I love that stuff. Like, it gets it tickles my brain in a way

Marie Vigouroux:

that, like, I can't even describe, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Like, as it's unintentional. It's just like

Jeremy Greer:

kismet, right? It's just like, stuff lines up and it's just

Jeremy Greer:

perfect. And then she, like, she goes on, she basically this

Jeremy Greer:

entire time, by the way, that she's helping the FBI. She's got

Jeremy Greer:

like, three or four kids, she's got like, a whole, like, she's

Jeremy Greer:

the dean of a nursing college, like she's, she's got these

Jeremy Greer:

like, three careers that she's doing, and then she retires from

Jeremy Greer:

the FBI in the 90s, or, like, kind of stops taking cases,

Jeremy Greer:

basically, and then gets, like, pulled into the Menendez

Jeremy Greer:

brothers trial, and like, starts looking at it from the other

Jeremy Greer:

side, and she starts, you know, so she's not only she

Jeremy Greer:

responsible for allowing this huge group of women to, like,

Jeremy Greer:

talk about their sexual assault and like, be able to be

Jeremy Greer:

believed. She goes to the Menendez brothers and has a

Jeremy Greer:

conversation with them and realizes, like, oh, the press

Jeremy Greer:

and the prosecution are, like, forming this as their motive is

Jeremy Greer:

money. They wanted to kill their parents for the money. But

Jeremy Greer:

actually, both of them had been sexually assaulted and they

Jeremy Greer:

weren't- So this wasn't, you know, they definitely killed the

Jeremy Greer:

parents, but they did it for different reasons than we think,

Jeremy Greer:

so, which opened up, like, the ability for men to talk about

Jeremy Greer:

being sexually assaulted, and then she goes on to be a

Jeremy Greer:

consultant on the on the first Bill Cosby case. And it's just

Jeremy Greer:

like, Jesus fucking Christ. How do you have this much time in

Jeremy Greer:

your life? Woman? And at the end, like, it's like, now she's

Jeremy Greer:

starting the same thing her granddaughter is working with

Jeremy Greer:

her to do, like, data capture for the disappearance and murder

Jeremy Greer:

of Indigenous women. And I'm just like, like, this is the

Jeremy Greer:

people that we should be idolizing.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, wow. I didn't know that that was a

Marie Vigouroux:

that, that was a thing like that. They were starting to

Marie Vigouroux:

actually, like, look, look into this. Because it's been, it's

Marie Vigouroux:

been decades, like, It's been decades and and. Anyway, I

Marie Vigouroux:

won't, I won't go into my conspiracy theory about that,

Marie Vigouroux:

because that's just but I, I'm so happy that somebody is

Marie Vigouroux:

properly looking into this. They

Jeremy Greer:

They showed just a brief interview with her and an

Jeremy Greer:

Indigenous woman. And the woman was saying, you know, these

Jeremy Greer:

people just disappeared. And Burress was Burgess was like, Oh

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, absolutely. We've got a database with like, 3000 cases

Jeremy Greer:

right now that we're working through. And I was like, Jesus

Jeremy Greer:

Christ, this is wild. But just like, just not only with the

Jeremy Greer:

connection with Hannibal, but just like, Oh, finally, a

Jeremy Greer:

documentary that's like, like, obviously, it's a little

Jeremy Greer:

salacious with the serial killer stuff. And they, like, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

they had to do, they had to play, like, serial killer tapes

Jeremy Greer:

and all that stuff to be like, you know, because documentaries

Jeremy Greer:

got a documentary or whatever. But at the same time, it just

Jeremy Greer:

felt so wholesome. Of like, here's this woman that I'd never

Jeremy Greer:

heard of before, and in fact, like there's a big like magazine

Jeremy Greer:

spread where they took a picture of everybody in the behavioral

Jeremy Greer:

science units, and they had, like, mind hunters at the top

Jeremy Greer:

right, like this big like profile piece. Nobody invited

Jeremy Greer:

her to be in the picture. Like, she's just not there,

Marie Vigouroux:

of course.

Jeremy Greer:

And she was like, you know, that's not what I was

Jeremy Greer:

there to do. She's like, I was just doing my work. But I'm

Jeremy Greer:

like, Ah, anyway. So it's very good documentary. It's very

Jeremy Greer:

worth watching, even though I just told you,

Marie Vigouroux:

what's the name of the documentary?

Jeremy Greer:

That's a good question.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, it's really worth watching. what's

Marie Vigouroux:

the name of it?

Jeremy Greer:

Mastermind: to think like a killer. Okay, it's

Jeremy Greer:

on Hulu. I think, I think I just downloaded it, but it's on Hulu

Jeremy Greer:

right now. Really, really good, really, really solid

Jeremy Greer:

documentary. We're watching.

Marie Vigouroux:

All right folks, go listen to that

Marie Vigouroux:

documentary and tell us what you think. We're watching

Jeremy Greer:

the chimp documentary on HBO, which is by

Jeremy Greer:

the tiger King people, and in comparison. Feels so crazy

Jeremy Greer:

exploitative to this one, like just the way that they like

Jeremy Greer:

follow people, and you can kind of tell like, like they

Jeremy Greer:

interview people, and they seem to get them comfortable, and

Jeremy Greer:

then they like take footage from them, not interviewing them. And

Jeremy Greer:

it just just feels like, obviously they agreed and, like,

Jeremy Greer:

signed on or whatever, like they can get followed around my

Jeremy Greer:

cameras, but just like the way it's presented, it's just real,

Jeremy Greer:

real scummy,

Marie Vigouroux:

yeah. I mean, you know, ethics in ethics in

Marie Vigouroux:

documentary making, is a thing. It's a thing, it's a thing, it's

Marie Vigouroux:

a thing,

Jeremy Greer:

Or sometimes not a thing, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Or sometimes not a thing, yes, exactly. Or

Marie Vigouroux:

lack of ethics, and Hannibal would find it very rude. I'm

Marie Vigouroux:

just saying,

Jeremy Greer:

Oh, absolutely. Find it very rude Hannibal.

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal and Autumn have something in common. It's in

Jeremy Greer:

that they would probably never want to be on camera, to be

Jeremy Greer:

interviewed about anything like Autumn has always said, like, if

Jeremy Greer:

a tornado hit, she would never be that woman going like, and

Jeremy Greer:

then the twister came out of nowhere, like, she was, like,

Jeremy Greer:

I'm not. I don't need to be on TV, Hannibal, I think Hannibal,

Jeremy Greer:

the same way, like she would just not want to be on TV for to

Jeremy Greer:

be interviewed by the by the local news station.

Marie Vigouroux:

yeah. Absolutely, honestly, like, that

Marie Vigouroux:

is also a thing that I would definitely so I have been on TV,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, explaining something like that happened, and I would never

Marie Vigouroux:

do it again. I've seen the way that, like, news crews actually,

Marie Vigouroux:

and journalists actually, like, take advantage of people who

Marie Vigouroux:

have lived like terrible things. And I would never do it again. I

Marie Vigouroux:

would never let my child do it so long as I can, obviously. But

Marie Vigouroux:

yeah, would never do it.

Jeremy Greer:

It's um, yeah, it's just interesting. I think

Jeremy Greer:

to I don't know, I just don't trust the news, like, I don't

Jeremy Greer:

trust the news people anymore. I know that sounds so conspiracy

Jeremy Greer:

and, like, right wing, like I don't trust the news, but like,

Jeremy Greer:

also I don't trust the news, yeah,

Marie Vigouroux:

exactly. It's interesting because, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

there's two kinds of I don't trust the news, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, there's definitely two different kinds.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, there's two different kinds of I don't

Marie Vigouroux:

trust the fuse, and I am definitely one of them, and

Marie Vigouroux:

absolutely not the other. So I feel that

Jeremy Greer:

I wanted to add. I think this is the first time we

Jeremy Greer:

recorded since, or maybe I just forgot it last time, but Nell in

Jeremy Greer:

the MOTW discord had something for us that I wanted to add to

Jeremy Greer:

the notes real quick.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah, that was good.

Jeremy Greer:

Otherwise, are you ready to rock?

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm ready to rock. I'm having my coffee. My

Marie Vigouroux:

voice is normal again. Yeah, great.

Jeremy Greer:

Warmed up the pipes. Yeah, exactly.

Marie Vigouroux:

I was like, Oh my God. I sound like Gillian

Marie Vigouroux:

Anderson in the late in the last few years,

Jeremy Greer:

those cigarettes really got said

Marie Vigouroux:

One of the reasons I love her, by the way,

Jeremy Greer:

when I get bored. So like, last night, we're just

Jeremy Greer:

kind of, like, casually rewatching the show the expanse,

Jeremy Greer:

and I've seen it like, three or four times, and it's really

Jeremy Greer:

good. But like, also, like, some of the in between bits, I'm

Jeremy Greer:

like, I'm gonna look at my phone. So I was, like, scrolling

Jeremy Greer:

through the X Files tag on Tumblr, like I do, and just

Jeremy Greer:

like, reblogging Gillian Anderson pictures. I didn't

Jeremy Greer:

realize, like, maybe, maybe I shouldn't be doing this on the

Jeremy Greer:

monster week profile. Maybe this is a little bit so crushing, we

Jeremy Greer:

have an X Files podcast. Like, there's not a single picture of

Jeremy Greer:

David Duchovny on there anywhere. So maybe, maybe I

Jeremy Greer:

should realign.

Marie Vigouroux:

That's kind of the beauty of like, bisexuality

Marie Vigouroux:

for me, like I love them both so much I can't deal like, when

Marie Vigouroux:

they're both on screen, like talking to each other. I just

Marie Vigouroux:

like, I don't know where to look.

Jeremy Greer:

Too much.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's too much!

Jeremy Greer:

like Jensen and Danneel. Like, just take it down

Jeremy Greer:

a notch, guys,

Marie Vigouroux:

I know right. Like, stop doing this to us.

Marie Vigouroux:

Although I have to say that I do find Danneel a lot more

Marie Vigouroux:

attractive than Jensen.

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Even, even. Even,

Jeremy Greer:

it's like, not even as, like, a straight person who just finds

Jeremy Greer:

him a very attractive man, like, she's got so much going on, and

Jeremy Greer:

he just is an attractive man like that. We've seen a lot of

Jeremy Greer:

those. She has, like, a she's a lot like Ruth right, like, where

Jeremy Greer:

she just has this like face, this interesting face, like

Jeremy Greer:

that. Feel like, that's what like people who recruit models

Jeremy Greer:

look for, like, interesting faces.

Marie Vigouroux:

I was so sad I was supposed to have, like, a

Marie Vigouroux:

picture with Ruth when I went to New Jersey, and she had to

Marie Vigouroux:

cancel. And I just, I'm so sad that I didn't get to see her

Jeremy Greer:

one day

Marie Vigouroux:

Boston Maybe

Jeremy Greer:

Boston, maybe, yeah, they haven't announced

Jeremy Greer:

anything for Boston, but TJ told us that he was going to be

Jeremy Greer:

there. I didn'tknow.

Marie Vigouroux:

Your bestie?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah. I didn't even realize until somebody said

Jeremy Greer:

it in the chat. They were like, oh yeah. Like, they haven't

Jeremy Greer:

announced anybody for that. And I was like, maybe he won't be

Jeremy Greer:

there. And I was like, I'm pretty sure he said he would be

Jeremy Greer:

in this podcast. So we got, we got the scoop.

Marie Vigouroux:

There you go. You can just, like, text your

Marie Vigouroux:

best you know,

Jeremy Greer:

it's all good, it's all that's what I'm gonna

Jeremy Greer:

do, just text my best day we it's so weird. It must be so

Jeremy Greer:

odd, because I've had so many people tell us that they are

Jeremy Greer:

meeting him and being like, Oh, we loved your your episode of

Jeremy Greer:

Monster of the Week. And I'm like, That dude has been on

Jeremy Greer:

fucking, like, 15 major Hollywood movies. He's been on

Jeremy Greer:

like, a huge, like, triple A Amazon, like, vehicle, you know

Jeremy Greer:

what I'm saying? Like, he's, he's done stuff, and to have

Jeremy Greer:

people be like, I love this podcast you did with these two

Jeremy Greer:

nerds. Like, it's got to be, I guess, I'm sure it's fun to talk

Jeremy Greer:

about something that's not like what you normally talk about,

Jeremy Greer:

but at the same time, it's got to be like, What the fuck are

Jeremy Greer:

these guys?

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, I must, it must be one of those things

Marie Vigouroux:

where you're like, you know, this was a good decision, a bit

Marie Vigouroux:

risky, but a good decision, like it paid off, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, so strange. Boost him up in the charts, like

Jeremy Greer:

he got that monster the Week bump.

Marie Vigouroux:

I know, good for him. Did Well.

All Episodes Previous Episode

About the Podcast

Show artwork for Rude Eats: A Hannibal Podcast
Rude Eats: A Hannibal Podcast
Feast your ears on Rude Eats, the new podcast that's been simmering in the shadows, where we dissect NBC's Hannibal with dark humor and ominous insights. Hosted by Marie Vigouroux and Jeremy Greer, art by AlexDreamsArt, music by Jake Lionheart.

Listen for free

About your hosts

Profile picture for Marie Vigouroux

Marie Vigouroux

I used to describe myself as a foodie in the heyday of Instagram food pics.
Profile picture for Jeremy Greer

Jeremy Greer

I would very much like to boop Hannibal on the nose one day.