Episode 1

Let Them Eat Eyes

It's time to make introductions over a nice apertif. Who is Will Graham, and why is Hannibal Lecter immediately fascinated with him? Does Jack Crawford have the best intentions for Will, or will Jack merely use hm as a tool to solve cases? Who is the real Minnesota Shrike?

Rude Eats is hosted by Marie Vigouroux and Jeremy Greer. Follow our YouTube channel for fun videos, episode previews, and full episodes. If the app you're using doesn't support built-in transcripts, you can find PDFs for each episode at this link.

You can hear more of Mary on her Supernatural podcast, Carrying Wayward, or her podcast about Our Flag Means Death, The Gentleman Pirate's Library. Jeremy's podcasts are collected at this website, unless you're looking for X-Men chat in which case you can use this link.

Podcast art by AlexDreamsArt, and you can find all of their links here. We encourage you to reach out to Alex if you need art commissioned, we were overwhelmingly satisfied with the level of detail and thought put into our podcast art.

Our intro theme and all music in the podcast was created by Jake Lionheart (with some help on the lyrics from Marie, Jeremy, and Autumn). Jake is a wonderful musician that can take any idea you throw at him and make it a reality. If you're looking to spruce up your podcast or your weekly DND sessions, get in touch.

Transcript
Marie Vigouroux:

Hi everyone. I'm Marie Vigouroux.

Jeremy Greer:

And I'm Jeremy Greer.

Marie Vigouroux:

And this is Rude Eats, a delicious podcast

Marie Vigouroux:

about the NBC show Hannibal.

Marie Vigouroux:

Jake Lionheart (intro music): I want Will Graham, I really do

Marie Vigouroux:

and I think that we could have some fun. Then you can do

Marie Vigouroux:

anything you like. I might even go and help you catch the

Marie Vigouroux:

Shrike. I want Will Graham, I want that man for every meal and

Marie Vigouroux:

on demand. His mind shines and his body's cut. I know that he

Marie Vigouroux:

works for the FBI, but what other man has pure empathy and

Marie Vigouroux:

the ability to see my mind. Jack. What other thing have I

Marie Vigouroux:

ever asked you for besides never looking into my pantry? And I

Marie Vigouroux:

won't get that. Damn. I want Will Graham. I want him so and

Marie Vigouroux:

he really doesn't need to know what's in my meals or on my

Marie Vigouroux:

mind. I just want Will Graham to be mine. I want him, and I want

Marie Vigouroux:

him now. I said before, I don't care how. I'll give him tests.

Marie Vigouroux:

He'll draw a clock, and then his dark desires I will unlock.

Marie Vigouroux:

We'll be together, Willll and me. We'll throw some brand in

Marie Vigouroux:

the parties. We'll cut the flesh. We'll cook the meat.

Marie Vigouroux:

He'll eat the food just like me. Give me goddamn Will Graham.

Jeremy Greer:

Hey Mary,

Marie Vigouroux:

Hi Jeremy. We're here. Our first episode of

Marie Vigouroux:

rude eats about Hannibal. What episode are we covering today?

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, today we're covering season one, episode one,

Marie Vigouroux:

aperitif.

Marie Vigouroux:

Can you say apéritif, Jeremy?

Jeremy Greer:

Apéritif? Apéritif.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes. Perfect, perfect, perfect.

Jeremy Greer:

I can roll an R. I just don't know when I should do

Jeremy Greer:

it appropriately. That's That's my issue.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, I think the issue with French is that

Marie Vigouroux:

it's not even a rolled R, like, it's a - it comes from the back

Marie Vigouroux:

of the throat, like the back of the mouth. So it's a bit of a

Marie Vigouroux:

weird one, which means that I cannot do my R's in Spanish,

Marie Vigouroux:

because it's just not the same thing. And a lot of French

Marie Vigouroux:

people have trouble with that.

Jeremy Greer:

I took French in high school and went to a state

Jeremy Greer:

competition because I was apparently that good at French.

Jeremy Greer:

But now, now it is all gone.

Marie Vigouroux:

That's awesome!

Jeremy Greer:

It's just all disappeared.

Marie Vigouroux:

It'll come back. It'll come back.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm excited to get into this. Why don't you

Jeremy Greer:

describe which episode we're doing?

Marie Vigouroux:

So the description for this episode is:

Marie Vigouroux:

"As the FBI investigates the disappearance of college

Marie Vigouroux:

students, Jack Crawford recruits a criminal profiler, Will Graham

Marie Vigouroux:

and a brilliant psychiatrist and a brilliant psychiatrist, Dr

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal Lecter, who is secretly a serial killer and a cannibal."

Jeremy Greer:

Ooh

Marie Vigouroux:

Sets the tone right? So this episode was

Marie Vigouroux:

written by Brian Fuller, directed by David Slade, and it

Marie Vigouroux:

originally aired on April 4, 2013

Jeremy Greer:

Are you familiar with - so I guess first off, I

Jeremy Greer:

want to direct everybody to listen to our trailer slash

Jeremy Greer:

introduction, so that they can get a kind of a history of my

Jeremy Greer:

relationship with Hannibal, as well as Mary's lack of

Jeremy Greer:

relationship with everything Hannibal. But just to sum it up

Jeremy Greer:

very quickly, I'm a huge fan. I've seen this show like three

Jeremy Greer:

times. I've read the books multiple times. I've seen all of

Jeremy Greer:

the movies. I'm way into this fandom, and Mary knows

Jeremy Greer:

absolutely nothing about it.

Marie Vigouroux:

Nothing at all, nothing apart from the fact

Marie Vigouroux:

that, like, basically, what's in this in this description is what

Marie Vigouroux:

I know. He's a serial killer and a cannibal. That's it.

Jeremy Greer:

Exciting. Do you have any experience with Brian

Jeremy Greer:

fuller shows? That was, I forgot to ask you that in the in the

Jeremy Greer:

introduction, so, but I was curious if you had watched Dead

Jeremy Greer:

Like Me, or pushing daisies or anything like that.

Marie Vigouroux:

Nope.

Jeremy Greer:

Okay.

Marie Vigouroux:

I haven't watched anything, but I do know

Marie Vigouroux:

- so I know of his fandom and the people who follow his work,

Marie Vigouroux:

and so that, because I'm just, like, immersed in fandom, per

Marie Vigouroux:

se, and that's, that's how I know of him, and I know that

Jeremy Greer:

It's interesting, because the shows that I've seen

Jeremy Greer:

he's quite beloved by the people who follow his work. So very

Jeremy Greer:

him - that I have seen from him specifically, like Dead Like Me

Jeremy Greer:

excited about that.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah. I mean, you know, this is - I find that

Marie Vigouroux:

or Wonder Falls, they have this kind of almost wacky sensibility

Marie Vigouroux:

about death, or serious subjects, like Dead Like Me is

Marie Vigouroux:

whenever I start watching shows like this, I'm like, Okay, I

Marie Vigouroux:

about a young girl who dies and becomes a Reaper. And imagine a

Marie Vigouroux:

teenager who doesn't like want to be a Reaper, but it has gets

Marie Vigouroux:

bossed around by Mandy Patinkin, who is the boss Reaper. So it's

Marie Vigouroux:

very It's very funny and silly, and a lot of his shows are like

Marie Vigouroux:

need to watch other things that this person has done. So I feel

Marie Vigouroux:

that. Like Pushing Daisies has this kind of wacky, zany thing

Marie Vigouroux:

over a layer of very emotional and kind of deep stuff. And it's

Marie Vigouroux:

such a change with Hannibal, which has none of that. Hannibal

Marie Vigouroux:

like this is going to open the door to that. But I think I was,

Marie Vigouroux:

is self serious to the point of almost this detriment, in some

Marie Vigouroux:

cases.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it's a show that I like a lot, that it also

Jeremy Greer:

the thing is, I was too young for Pushing Daisies, and I just

Jeremy Greer:

never really went back to it.

Jeremy Greer:

didn't finish. I don't know why. I just watched, I watched I

Jeremy Greer:

watched the first, like, probably 10 episodes. I was

Jeremy Greer:

like, This is great. I should watch more. And it never did. So

Jeremy Greer:

-

Marie Vigouroux:

Ah, man!

Jeremy Greer:

We should talk about the format of the show a

Jeremy Greer:

little bit. How are we, how are we going to structure our

Jeremy Greer:

episodes going forward?

Marie Vigouroux:

Right! So we are going to start with our

Marie Vigouroux:

little introductions, basically the same way that we did here.

Marie Vigouroux:

Then we're going to talk a little bit also about, like the

Marie Vigouroux:

title of the episode, what it means, right? Because it seems,

Marie Vigouroux:

again, from what I know, it seems, that every title in

Marie Vigouroux:

season one is like a course for a meal. We're going to talk also

Marie Vigouroux:

a little bit about possibly a theme for the episode, and then

Marie Vigouroux:

we're going to do a beat by beat, where we're going to go

Marie Vigouroux:

through basically everything that happens in the episode,

Marie Vigouroux:

what we thought about it, and linking it back to the theme

Marie Vigouroux:

that we identified at the beginning.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

And then we have probably my favorite part

Marie Vigouroux:

of the episode at the very end. Do you want to tell us about

Marie Vigouroux:

that?

Jeremy Greer:

It's the review section we're going to we're

Jeremy Greer:

going to review every episode and give it a star rating. Uh,

Jeremy Greer:

spoiler, mine'sprobably just gonna be four stars every single

Jeremy Greer:

episode. Like, I doubt that we're gonna find a bad one. I'm

Jeremy Greer:

a bad reviewer because either I like something or I don't want

Jeremy Greer:

to consume it. Like, that's my, that's my I'm all on or all off.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm zero stars or four stars. Like, if I give something to two

Jeremy Greer:

and a half star, I'm like, What are we doing here? What is, what

Jeremy Greer:

is, what does that?

Marie Vigouroux:

You might as well just go to zero right at

Marie Vigouroux:

that point.

Jeremy Greer:

But I'm excited to do like a brief, like four star,

Jeremy Greer:

kind of a like a restaurant style review that you would see

Jeremy Greer:

on Yelp, not anything really long, but just something that

Jeremy Greer:

would give you an idea of what you're about to go to if you're

Jeremy Greer:

trying to scope out a new restaurant. So -

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah!

Jeremy Greer:

Without further ado, let's get into what an

Jeremy Greer:

apéritif is. I wonder if I did that -

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, all right, so an apéritif and this -

Marie Vigouroux:

so you pulled some information, I think, directly from the wiki.

Marie Vigouroux:

Am I right? From the wiki?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, this is directly from the Wikipedia off

Jeremy Greer:

an apéritif.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay.

Jeremy Greer:

Yes.I should have sourced that.

Marie Vigouroux:

No, it's fine. It's just because I was like, Oh

Marie Vigouroux:

my gosh. Like, what how? Because I know what an apéritif is, just

Marie Vigouroux:

because, like, from cultural, I don't want to say osmosis, but

Marie Vigouroux:

from having lived in French culture, right? So the way that

Marie Vigouroux:

we do apéritif is usually like, Okay, so as you're cooking, as

Marie Vigouroux:

you're preparing the meal, you're gonna have a little

Marie Vigouroux:

drink, right? So, and that's your apéritif, and it's often, I

Marie Vigouroux:

think here I see: "common choices for an apéritif are

Marie Vigouroux:

vermouth, champagne, pasticin, ouzo, fino, Amontillado or other

Marie Vigouroux:

styles of dry sherry, but not usually cream or olarosso

Marie Vigouroux:

blended Sherry, which is very sweet and rich", that would

Marie Vigouroux:

probably be more a digestive.

Jeremy Greer:

A dessert kind of wine, yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

A dessert kind of wine. Um, so do you do you

Marie Vigouroux:

have, like, a little apéritif every once in a while, Jeremy?

Jeremy Greer:

Not often, but we do. So I've gotten more into -

Jeremy Greer:

Covid got me more into making cocktails, so I have a couple

Jeremy Greer:

cocktail books, and so we started, but what happens is,

Jeremy Greer:

like, we like a cocktail a lot so we end up drinking like two

Jeremy Greer:

or three of them, and then forgetting about dinner until 10

Jeremy Greer:

o'clock at night. So our apéritif can go for a little

Jeremy Greer:

while. I love the way that this connects, like the Wikipedia

Jeremy Greer:

references that this is from the Latin word aperire, maybe? We're

Jeremy Greer:

just gonna guess.

Marie Vigouroux:

I don't know how to pronounce Latin. Listen,

Marie Vigouroux:

I try every week on my podcast, and it just doesn't work.

Jeremy Greer:

You're the smart one, Mary, you're the smart one

Jeremy Greer:

with all of the accents. If you can't do it, nobody can. But it

Jeremy Greer:

means, it literally means to open. And I love that, the way

Jeremy Greer:

that this connects to the show. And because this is literally

Jeremy Greer:

the opener of the show, like this is going to be what sets

Jeremy Greer:

the taste for the for the menu ahead of us, for the for the

Jeremy Greer:

meal ahead of us. And it sets the kind of tone. Obviously, in

Jeremy Greer:

a pilot, we're gonna introduce all of our characters, although

Jeremy Greer:

I should, I should mention that this isn't a pilot. It was

Jeremy Greer:

actually renewed before they even got to pilot, or approved

Jeremy Greer:

before it even got to pilot stage. They were like,

Marie Vigouroux:

Really?!

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

That's cool.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, that's true.

Jeremy Greer:

They saw the scripts and were like, give it

Jeremy Greer:

There's a bunch of shows that came out, like, about

Jeremy Greer:

to me. We're ready. And 2013 was kind of like a heyday for serial

Jeremy Greer:

killer stuff as well. Like we had -

Jeremy Greer:

that, you know, kind of topic, nothing like this.

Jeremy Greer:

Really popular.

Marie Vigouroux:

Everybody was watching it, right, yeah. There

Marie Vigouroux:

And this was also, like, the really high

Jeremy Greer:

So, yeah, this, I love the way that this connects,

Jeremy Greer:

you go.

Jeremy Greer:

like, it's also when Criminal Minds was, like -

Jeremy Greer:

and I'm really interested in, as we go through this first season,

Jeremy Greer:

if every single course is going to connect to, kind of - if we

Jeremy Greer:

can apply it to a theme of the show, right. And this obviously

Jeremy Greer:

being, you know, just an introduction, it's an

Jeremy Greer:

introduction to our tour, to our characters.

Marie Vigouroux:

it's like a way of, like leaving you wanting a

Marie Vigouroux:

little bit more, right? And also like breaking the ice, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Because that's kind of the point of having a drink also,

Marie Vigouroux:

especially when you have people over, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Yes.

Marie Vigouroux:

So you have people over, you offer them a

Marie Vigouroux:

little drink, and then immediately, like, it breaks

Marie Vigouroux:

down some barriers, a little bit of, like, any kind of

Marie Vigouroux:

butterflies or anxiety or whatever, like, it just goes

Marie Vigouroux:

well away, mostly, depends on how anxious you are, she says,

Marie Vigouroux:

looking at her anti-anxiety meds, but basically, yeah, it's,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, it's, it's a way to, like, just put you at ease, and, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

just slowly slide into the world, which I really, really

Marie Vigouroux:

love.

Jeremy Greer:

It's interesting. Like you mentioned that slow

Jeremy Greer:

slide. I don't think Hannibal, the actual title character of

Jeremy Greer:

the show, shows up until like, 24 minutes in, maybe before we

Jeremy Greer:

see him. Or he's even a reference to, like, they do a

Jeremy Greer:

lot of world setting and stage setting before Hannibal even,

Jeremy Greer:

even bothers to show up. And then when he does, it's just

Jeremy Greer:

like, here's Hannibal, and then he goes away. I'm so curious,

Jeremy Greer:

when we get there in the in the play by play, I'm so curious how

Jeremy Greer:

you're going to react to some of this stuff. Because obviously,

Jeremy Greer:

like, as a Hannibal fan, I was like, there he is. I was doing

Jeremy Greer:

the DiCaprio meme of, like, Oh, there he is. But before we get

Jeremy Greer:

into the the actual play by play, the meat of the episode,

Jeremy Greer:

there's two things I want to mention. First off, if you

Jeremy Greer:

haven't seen the show before, and you plan on watching along,

Jeremy Greer:

and you haven't watched the episode yet, you're just kind of

Jeremy Greer:

getting your feet wet. I want to mention that it's a very, very

Jeremy Greer:

graphic show.

Jeremy Greer:

The first episode has quite a bit of imagery of

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

death. There's going to be a lot of very scary kind of dream-like

Marie Vigouroux:

psychedelic imagery, but there's also going to be some actual

Marie Vigouroux:

violent crimes committed against men and women in horrific

Marie Vigouroux:

circumstances. And if that's not something that you want to

Marie Vigouroux:

watch, you should be aware of it, because it's it can be very

Marie Vigouroux:

gruesome. I think in this episode, everything feels very

Marie Vigouroux:

dry. It's not like slasher, kind of slasher movie, gory, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, you don't really see that, but at the same time, like, we

Marie Vigouroux:

have a young woman depicted, like, mounted on some deer

Marie Vigouroux:

antlers, like, and that's kind of horrifying.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

So just wanted to mention that for people at home.

Marie Vigouroux:

I will say - So, I am also incredibly

Marie Vigouroux:

squeamish, and I hate slasher films, and I don't love body

Marie Vigouroux:

horror. Like, it's a lot of, it's a lot of things that kind

Marie Vigouroux:

of hit me in places that I don't really love. But I didn't feel

Marie Vigouroux:

disturbed when I watched this, this particular episode. I can't

Marie Vigouroux:

say how I'll feel later on, but for now, like, I didn't go, oh

Marie Vigouroux:

my god, I can't look at this. It was like, Oh, okay. Like, it is

Marie Vigouroux:

incredibly graphic and violent, but it's also done in a way that

Marie Vigouroux:

feels almost respectful of of esthetics in a way. And I don't

Marie Vigouroux:

know if this makes any sense if you haven't seen it, but it's

Marie Vigouroux:

yeah, it's not - yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

It's hardly ever. You know, compared to a slash

Jeremy Greer:

movie is good because, like a slasher movie, you might have

Jeremy Greer:

somebody like, literally sitting on someone and just stabbing

Jeremy Greer:

them with a knife over and over again as blood like spurts all

Jeremy Greer:

over the place, versus Hannibal, which is going to present us

Jeremy Greer:

with a lot of pictures of death. And they're going to be like, I

Jeremy Greer:

feel like Hannibal defined aesthetic for Tumblr for a long

Jeremy Greer:

time. Like, I think I feel like that's where people, like,

Jeremy Greer:

started using the word aesthetic all the time. They're like, Oh,

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal, yeah, that's, that's, that's the vibe.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

And it is, it is very bad. There will be moments

Jeremy Greer:

of, like, significant violence that kind of dip into, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

the blood spatter and that kind of thing. I'll be curious how

Jeremy Greer:

you go through especially the first season, which is, brings

Jeremy Greer:

me to my second topic, because the show, in the first season,

Jeremy Greer:

out the gate, it's kind of doing almost a monster of the week

Jeremy Greer:

format, where it's like, Ooh, there's a new killer. We got to

Jeremy Greer:

track down this thing. There's a quote from Brian Fuller that I

Jeremy Greer:

want to read. This is from an Indie Wire magazine article that

Jeremy Greer:

I'll link in the show notes. Fuller said, "I remember leaving

Jeremy Greer:

the edit session where we'd seen the first cut of the pilot, and

Jeremy Greer:

I was like, we're doing the wrong show. When I saw David

Jeremy Greer:

Slade and Jim Hawkins's work and really understood the artful

Jeremy Greer:

piece that they were able to conjure for what we had. I threw

Jeremy Greer:

out the scripts. Looking back at the pilot, you can feel the

Jeremy Greer:

early conflict between the paint by number investigative story

Jeremy Greer:

beats and the lurking sense of unsettling danger in the

Jeremy Greer:

cinematography."

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes!

Jeremy Greer:

And I wanted to mention this because of James

Jeremy Greer:

Hawkinson, specifically, incredible cinematographer, and

Jeremy Greer:

his work on this show is literally transient, like it

Jeremy Greer:

changes the show to a significant degree. I feel like

Jeremy Greer:

without this kind of approach, this would be just another like

Jeremy Greer:

Criminal Minds, which is not bad, but it wouldn't be as as

Jeremy Greer:

artful as it is.

Marie Vigouroux:

No, you're absolutely right. And I think -

Marie Vigouroux:

okay, to see it written that way, and to see it put that way,

Marie Vigouroux:

makes so much sense, because I realized as I was watching that

Marie Vigouroux:

I was much less interested in, you know, what he calls the

Marie Vigouroux:

paint by number investigative story beats, and just completely

Marie Vigouroux:

taken aback by the cinematography, because I don't

Marie Vigouroux:

think I've seen this in a TV show before, especially not that

Marie Vigouroux:

kind of TV show.

Jeremy Greer:

Absolutely like, again, this could just be a

Jeremy Greer:

paint by the numbers crime pilot. Like, you know, we're

Jeremy Greer:

gonna, there's a new serial killer. We got to track him

Jeremy Greer:

down. We're gonna do, there's gonna be an autopsy scene, you

Jeremy Greer:

know, we're gonna, we're gonna have to talk to an expert, check

Jeremy Greer:

the lore, and then we're gonna go get the guy. And because of

Jeremy Greer:

the number one, I think the chemistry between Mads Mikkelsen

Jeremy Greer:

and Hugh Darcy - Dancy? Hugh Darcy? Hugh Dancy, excuse me,

Jeremy Greer:

playing Hannibal Lecter and Will Graham specifically, because of

Jeremy Greer:

their chemistry, and because of the writing and because of the

Jeremy Greer:

cinematography, it's really elevated above that. And they

Jeremy Greer:

did the extremely smart thing, which is lean into that as the

Jeremy Greer:

show goes on to the point where, like, there's episodes in season

Jeremy Greer:

three where I'm like, Are you - did you guys even say a word?

Jeremy Greer:

Like, was there dialog in this did I just watch an art film,

Jeremy Greer:

like, what is happening right now. So, I'm excited to get into

Jeremy Greer:

that.

Marie Vigouroux:

So excited.

Jeremy Greer:

Do you have anything you want to bring up

Jeremy Greer:

right before we go into the play by play?

Marie Vigouroux:

No, honestly, I'm ready to go. I'm very

Marie Vigouroux:

excited. I've never been excited for like, horror and death and

Marie Vigouroux:

blood and whatnot, but I am right now!

Jeremy Greer:

Excellent. Well, with that, we'll go into our

Jeremy Greer:

play by play section.

Jeremy Greer:

So we're gonna start at a crime scene. There's blood spatter

Jeremy Greer:

everywhere. We see Will Graham. We don't know he's Will Graham

Jeremy Greer:

yet, but he is kind of standing in the middle of this crime

Jeremy Greer:

scene. He closes his eyes, and we see this enormous like golden

Jeremy Greer:

sweep hand sweep across the blackness. And as he opens his

Jeremy Greer:

eyes, that sweep hand starts to erase things from the scene. So

Jeremy Greer:

we see the blood pool from a body receding, going backwards.

Jeremy Greer:

We see the blood spatter that's on the alarm panel starts to

Jeremy Greer:

unspatter in a really cool, like, reverse effect,

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, it like peels off the wall and the and

Marie Vigouroux:

the panel and whatnot. It's like, it's, yeah, beautiful.

Jeremy Greer:

And as this continues, we see him literally

Jeremy Greer:

walking backwards out of this house. He's surrounded by cops.

Jeremy Greer:

And again, this sweep hand I don't have a name for it. I'd be

Jeremy Greer:

very curious what they named but they call this like internally,

Jeremy Greer:

as they were referred to this in the script.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, I don't know, actually.

Jeremy Greer:

But this, the sweep hand like, erases the

Jeremy Greer:

cops. So to a certain point - we get to the point where Will is

Jeremy Greer:

just standing in front of the house alone, and he looks up,

Jeremy Greer:

and then wild shit starts happening. Will goes nuts. I

Marie Vigouroux:

I was like, Oh no! I didn't think it was that

Marie Vigouroux:

kind of show!

Jeremy Greer:

It's - it's intense, because at this point

Jeremy Greer:

you don't know who Will Graham is. You don't you assume that

Jeremy Greer:

he's with the police, but what you see is him crashing through

Jeremy Greer:

the door. He shoots a man we're gonna know is Mr. Marlowe later.

Jeremy Greer:

And then, as all of this is happening, will begins to

Jeremy Greer:

narrate what he is doing. "This is my design."

Marie Vigouroux:

So chilling.

Jeremy Greer:

It's extremely chilling. He shoots a woman

Jeremy Greer:

expertly, I think Will says, through the neck, which

Jeremy Greer:

instantly paralyzes her. But Will now, I think we get that -

Jeremy Greer:

ee get the idea that Will is channeling what this killer was

Jeremy Greer:

doing. He says, you know, that doesn't mean that she can't feel

Jeremy Greer:

pain. And he talks about, like, the man is going to be - the man

Jeremy Greer:

he shot is gonna be alive enough to see him take everything he

Jeremy Greer:

loves away from him. And it's, it's just immediately out the

Jeremy Greer:

gate. You're like, What in the fuck is happening right now?

Jeremy Greer:

What is going on.

Marie Vigouroux:

You're like, oh no. Like, it's very impactful as

Marie Vigouroux:

a very first scene, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Oh, absolutely, yeah, this, this will get you

Jeremy Greer:

hooked immediately, I think. And I can only imagine how this read

Jeremy Greer:

on the page too. Like, I feel like this is NBC going, like, oh

Jeremy Greer:

yeah, just give us, give us more of this. Like, we love this.

Marie Vigouroux:

To be honest with you, I took no notes at all

Marie Vigouroux:

during this first scene, because I was just looking at it like

Marie Vigouroux:

what is happening in front of me right now.

Jeremy Greer:

As you know, Autumn and I have seen this

Jeremy Greer:

together. We watched it as it came out, and we've watched it a

Jeremy Greer:

couple times since. And Autumn like looked at me several times,

Jeremy Greer:

she's like, my mouth has just been open for 90 seconds.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, exactly! So good.

Jeremy Greer:

Will approaches the alarm panel. And I love this

Jeremy Greer:

moment because he he reaches up to touch it, and then we cut

Jeremy Greer:

directly to the present, and he's asking, like, you know, I

Jeremy Greer:

need the transcript between the alarm company so like, he's back

Jeremy Greer:

in present mode. He's not he's no longer channeling the visions

Jeremy Greer:

of this killer.

Marie Vigouroux:

Hmm. And I find it so interesting that in that

Marie Vigouroux:

moment, you see, like, a complete change in color

Marie Vigouroux:

temperature, like between the present and what we now know, or

Marie Vigouroux:

what we later find out is, like, Will's imagination, like, it's

Marie Vigouroux:

just so compelling because there's warm tones for the

Marie Vigouroux:

imagination part, but there's very cool tones for the reality.

Marie Vigouroux:

And it's sort of, well, I think it says something about like,

Marie Vigouroux:

where he feels most comfortable, or where he feels most at home,

Marie Vigouroux:

one might say.

Jeremy Greer:

And as we learn more about Will, we're gonna,

Jeremy Greer:

we're gonna realize that these two areas of his mind are not

Jeremy Greer:

necessarily separated from one another. And that's something

Jeremy Greer:

that happens even over the first episode. You see one bleed into

Jeremy Greer:

the other to the other.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

And the cinematography, like works with

Jeremy Greer:

that, I think, in a really powerful way. So I'm just, I'm

Jeremy Greer:

just so excited for this to get so weird. I'm just so excited.

Jeremy Greer:

They figure out that this killer was able to tap their phone and

Jeremy Greer:

record a mistaken alarm off, so, like, he was able to basically

Jeremy Greer:

just turn the alarm system off so he's not going to be bothered

Jeremy Greer:

by the police. And that's when things, quote, get truly

Jeremy Greer:

horrifying. And we cut from here to Quantico, which is going to

Jeremy Greer:

be a reoccurring - Quantico is the as we know from the X Files

Jeremy Greer:

and also just media in general. It's the FBI training facility

Jeremy Greer:

will is now presenting this case to his students and saying,

Jeremy Greer:

Tell me your design. Tell me who you are. I'm stealing your

Jeremy Greer:

notes, Mary. I'm sorry. It's just too good.

Marie Vigouroux:

No, that's great. No, no, no, that's great.

Marie Vigouroux:

Because it just, I find that that line feels very charged,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? Because it seems like there's a lot of emphasis, like

Marie Vigouroux:

the cinematography, or, like, the story, puts a lot of

Marie Vigouroux:

emphasis on that, and it feels like ominous almost, you know.

Jeremy Greer:

And I don't know how often I want to do this,

Jeremy Greer:

because I feel like I might clog the podcast, but to I just,

Jeremy Greer:

like, every once a while I want to contrast and compare the show

Jeremy Greer:

with, like, the actual like books and everything. If you -

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, for sure!

Jeremy Greer:

If you look on like, the fandom wiki site,

Jeremy Greer:

there's a, there's like, a 10 page like, thing, the

Jeremy Greer:

differences. And I'm like, I don't want to be that guy. I

Jeremy Greer:

don't want to do that. That's ridiculous, but I do want - when

Jeremy Greer:

stuff comes up that's interesting, I want to mention

Jeremy Greer:

it. And one of the things that Silence to the Lambs does is

Jeremy Greer:

like, it's, it's Clarice Starling is a FBI agent in

Jeremy Greer:

training. So you get a lot of like, Will Graham showing her

Jeremy Greer:

how to be an agent or mentoring her.

Marie Vigouroux:

I see.

Jeremy Greer:

And that's not present here, but it's you see

Jeremy Greer:

this - him mentoring other, other students, other agents in

Jeremy Greer:

training. And there's a lot of like learning to do profiling,

Jeremy Greer:

like learning how to actually profile a potential serial

Jeremy Greer:

killer. And I just find that fascinating. Like, tell me who

Jeremy Greer:

you are, tell me your design. Like you, as you mentioned, it

Jeremy Greer:

felt very charged. And that's it's because it's pulling on

Jeremy Greer:

some stuff that, like, we already know, like, we feel like

Jeremy Greer:

something's about to happen.

Marie Vigouroux:

So is this, like, this line about the design

Marie Vigouroux:

and tell me who you are, like, is that something that comes

Marie Vigouroux:

directly from the book?

Jeremy Greer:

Nope, not that I know of.

Marie Vigouroux:

No?? Not even? Oh my god.

Jeremy Greer:

It's been a while since I've read the books, I

Jeremy Greer:

don't think the design stuff is from the books I'm planning on

Jeremy Greer:

rereading. I'm in the middle of a book now that I'm immediately

Jeremy Greer:

going to read all of these books so I can get up to date, because

Jeremy Greer:

our schedule is going to be relatively slow, and now I'm

Jeremy Greer:

craving more Hannibal content.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, there you go.

Jeremy Greer:

At the end of the class, Jack Crawford as played

Jeremy Greer:

by Lawrence Fishburne appears. Jack is a - kind of a - he's in

Jeremy Greer:

charge of the behavioral unit at the FBI, so it's his job to

Jeremy Greer:

literally profile and catch serial killers for the FBI. And

Jeremy Greer:

he's basically here to recruit Jack. And there's a little bit

Jeremy Greer:

of back and forth, like they know one another, because Jack

Jeremy Greer:

kind of built a museum of serial killers, and called it the Evil

Jeremy Greer:

Minds museum. And Will has kind of, kind of rebuffed that a

Jeremy Greer:

little, he's like, that's a dumb name for for this, like, he

Jeremy Greer:

doesn't, he doesn't like the evil minds thing, which I

Jeremy Greer:

totally get, because, as we're gonna learn, will empathize is

Jeremy Greer:

with these people. So he can't, he doesn't naturally call them

Jeremy Greer:

evil.

Marie Vigouroux:

And he, I think he calls it like it's a little

Marie Vigouroux:

hammy, if you ask me, or something, yes, something like

Marie Vigouroux:

that. And I find that really interesting, that he, he kind of

Marie Vigouroux:

pushes back against the - the reduction of the human mind.

Marie Vigouroux:

Whether we think of it as evil, necessarily, he's like, Well,

Marie Vigouroux:

this is still a human mind, and there's something human about

Marie Vigouroux:

it, and we shouldn't be so reductive, which I really

Marie Vigouroux:

appreciate to a certain degree, right?

Jeremy Greer:

I like it.

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm like, Well, I don't know, I don't know

Marie Vigouroux:

exactly all of the ramifications of that, but I think that it's

Marie Vigouroux:

important to realize that, like people who do truly horrible

Marie Vigouroux:

things, are still human. And that's, that is still part of

Marie Vigouroux:

human nature. I think that's that is the scary part for me of

Marie Vigouroux:

all of this.

Jeremy Greer:

Oh, absolutely. And Hannibal is going to do -

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal the show, is going to do such a good job of showing

Jeremy Greer:

you the humanity of the people that are committing these awful

Jeremy Greer:

and violent crimes. It never, it never tells you like he's good

Jeremy Greer:

now, or like he, you know, it doesn't do it like in a very

Jeremy Greer:

simple black or white kind of way. But it definitely shows

Jeremy Greer:

you, like, you know, these are actual human beings. This is a

Jeremy Greer:

human person that you know is doing these crimes, but it's

Jeremy Greer:

also at the same time, human. So what? How do we deal with that,

Jeremy Greer:

which, of course, like calling them evil, just is a such a

Jeremy Greer:

reduction that you know, he rejects. It's hammy, as you

Jeremy Greer:

mentioned. We learned that Will is on the spectrum, which is a

Jeremy Greer:

something that is wild to see in a like national media. And I

Jeremy Greer:

don't find him very like autistic, autistic-coded. But I

Jeremy Greer:

really want you to speak to this.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, I mean, I was really excited when I saw

Marie Vigouroux:

that he, like, calls himself autistic, so he says that he's

Marie Vigouroux:

closer to the Asperger and autistic post or something. So I

Marie Vigouroux:

don't tend to really use Asperger for a lot of reasons,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? Like, because historically, it's a term that

Marie Vigouroux:

was used by the Nazis in Nazi Germany to kind of describe

Marie Vigouroux:

whether autistic people were functional enough to still work

Marie Vigouroux:

in the camps or they had to be killed in the gas chambers. So I

Marie Vigouroux:

tend not to use that, and I stick with with autism or

Marie Vigouroux:

autistic people. And I just, I think it's so I just think it's

Marie Vigouroux:

so cool, because a lot of the stuff that you're seeing, his

Marie Vigouroux:

relationship with empathy, his relationship with his

Marie Vigouroux:

imagination, we'll see eventually also his relationship

Marie Vigouroux:

with animals like it speaks to a lot of things that I think

Marie Vigouroux:

autistic people - that are very real for a lot of different

Marie Vigouroux:

autistic people.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, I did not know that about Nazi Germany, by

Jeremy Greer:

the way, I did -had no idea that that existed. So that's a new

Jeremy Greer:

horrible fact that's in my brain.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yep, the horrors never stop.

Jeremy Greer:

We're also - So Jack, reluctantly, kind of

Jeremy Greer:

agrees to look at this case where college girls are being

Jeremy Greer:

abducted. I'm sorry. Will agrees to go with Jack to look at this

Jeremy Greer:

case. They're calling it abductions, because they haven't

Jeremy Greer:

found any of the bodies. Jack is taken to the victim board. I

Jeremy Greer:

guess you would call this like the cork board, with all of the

Jeremy Greer:

they don't have red - they don't have red yarn. Unfortunately,

Jeremy Greer:

it's not a it's not a Pepe thing, but it's - but they do

Jeremy Greer:

have everything spread out and organized. And Jack begins to

Jeremy Greer:

look at him, and notices, obviously, like all of the girls

Jeremy Greer:

look the same. And he describes him. He uses a metaphor of Willy

Jeremy Greer:

Wonka, of like, he's looking for a golden ticket in a sea of

Jeremy Greer:

sameness. And he, I love this so much because he, you could tell

Jeremy Greer:

right away that he's just almost immediately inside the mind of a

Jeremy Greer:

killer. And,it's like, Jack is, like, watching this kind of

Jeremy Greer:

almost at a distance. Just like, how is this dude work? Like, how

Jeremy Greer:

does this machine work? I don't understand it.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, there - you can tell immediately, like

Marie Vigouroux:

you said, you can tell that Jack doesn't understand, but he's

Marie Vigouroux:

like, Oh, this is really valuable, right? And I mean,

Marie Vigouroux:

that's going to be one of my main questions for later, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

does Jack really value will as a person, or does he value him for

Marie Vigouroux:

what he can bring him? And I don't know that yet, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Because that there's a few conversations in there that I'm

Marie Vigouroux:

like, I don't really know where jack stands about this. One

Marie Vigouroux:

thing that I think is, is, is really that kind of made me

Marie Vigouroux:

chuckle, actually, is the fact that he's using the Willy Wonka

Marie Vigouroux:

metaphor, because that's such a childish thing to describe

Marie Vigouroux:

really, really horrible things. And yet, like, if you look at

Marie Vigouroux:

interviews of serial killers, like sometimes they'll use

Marie Vigouroux:

really mundane ways of describing how they felt about

Marie Vigouroux:

their victims. And so I feel like, in that way, Will is

Marie Vigouroux:

already, like you said, he's already empathizing with with

Marie Vigouroux:

the serial killer who took all these girls.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, this is just, I love this. It's

Jeremy Greer:

fascinating. And you got it kind of the heart of one of the

Jeremy Greer:

things that the show is going to be doing for the rest of the

Jeremy Greer:

season. In fact, the rest of the series is like Jack's motivation

Jeremy Greer:

and his, you know, is he there to catch serial killers and use

Jeremy Greer:

whatever tool is available, including Will, or does he

Jeremy Greer:

actually have genuine affection when, for Will and is going to

Jeremy Greer:

protect him against, you know, his own empathy, like, is he

Jeremy Greer:

going to protect him against his own brain? And that's, that's,

Jeremy Greer:

that's a, that's a huge discussion. We're going to talk

Jeremy Greer:

about that almost every single week.

Marie Vigouroux:

Awesome,Awseome! Because I was like, you know, I

Marie Vigouroux:

mean, how is Jack any different from, from, from those people

Marie Vigouroux:

who are using other human beings, right, for their own,

Marie Vigouroux:

for their own will, or their own, their own profit to a

Marie Vigouroux:

certain degree, right? The more cases he solves, the more the

Marie Vigouroux:

more he wins, the more the more money he makes, the more print

Marie Vigouroux:

motions he can get anyway. So all that to say, I had a lot of

Marie Vigouroux:

questions about that. I also thought that like that, this

Marie Vigouroux:

immediately brought me back to Criminal Minds. As you can guess

Marie Vigouroux:

by now, I've watched every single season of Criminal Minds,

Marie Vigouroux:

and I love and hate that show very strong love and hate a

Marie Vigouroux:

little bit like Supernatural to a certain degree. And it's funny

Marie Vigouroux:

to me when Will says, like he would hide how important she is

Marie Vigouroux:

to him, right, talking about the golden ticket, and he goes. I

Marie Vigouroux:

mean, I would, wouldn't you, and it's like, he's like, Well,

Marie Vigouroux:

don't you feel these really, really basic things? Jack, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

Come on, man. Like, it just seems so obvious to him.

Jeremy Greer:

In a way, Will Graham has written, in a similar

Jeremy Greer:

fashion to, is it Spencer on Criminal Minds? It's been years

Jeremy Greer:

since I've seen it, but like, the super brainy guy with the

Jeremy Greer:

kind of lack of empathy, not empathy, but lack of, like,

Jeremy Greer:

social cues, right? And we're even gonna get into a little bit

Jeremy Greer:

of that here where, you know, Jack actively wants him to come

Jeremy Greer:

on this investigation, and Will is reluctant because he doesn't

Jeremy Greer:

want to be sociable with people. But there's definitely, like a

Jeremy Greer:

comparison you can make between Spencer and Will Graham at this

Jeremy Greer:

moment, although Will doesn't have like, that encyclopedic

Jeremy Greer:

knowledge thing, is more like about feelings and emotions and

Jeremy Greer:

empathy.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, a lot of people think of Spencer Reed as

Marie Vigouroux:

autistic as well. So this doesn't surprise me at all what

Marie Vigouroux:

you're saying.

Jeremy Greer:

I - to be honest with you, I'll just assume that

Jeremy Greer:

they had done that in the show at some point, because that

Jeremy Greer:

shows been going for so long. I was like, surely they've done it

Jeremy Greer:

by now. But I guess not.

Marie Vigouroux:

no, and he's not in the show anymore,

Marie Vigouroux:

unfortunately, with the latest revival that happened, like just

Marie Vigouroux:

last year or so.

Jeremy Greer:

Oh, okay.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

Will and Jack -Excuse me, Jack takes will to

Jeremy Greer:

meet the family of the latest abduction. And it's a kind of a

Jeremy Greer:

normal interview, except that Will, and we're gonna see a lot

Jeremy Greer:

of this in this in this episode in the future. Will is kind of

Jeremy Greer:

eccentric in social situations. So as Jack is having a normal

Jeremy Greer:

conversation with this, you know, very terrified parents

Jeremy Greer:

Will excuse me, Jack, I'm gonna get losing my mind here.

Marie Vigouroux:

There's so many characters!

Jeremy Greer:

Thank God we're not doing a Game of Thrones

Jeremy Greer:

podcast; Aegon, Egan...

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh my god, forget it.

Jeremy Greer:

Will is like looking at the family photos and

Jeremy Greer:

then just kind of randomly out of nowhere, ask a question like,

Jeremy Greer:

What about the cat? And everyone's like, What are you

Jeremy Greer:

talking about? What about the cat? And he makes a leap. And he

Jeremy Greer:

brings Jack over and says she was abducted from here. They

Jeremy Greer:

followed her here. She fed the cat. That's why the cat didn't

Jeremy Greer:

bother anybody all weekend, and she was abducted here, which

Jeremy Greer:

turns this house from, turns us from an interview into a crime

Jeremy Greer:

scene. So immediately, Jack orders his - it's not EMTs. I

Jeremy Greer:

don't, I don't remember the name of his crew. I just called him

Jeremy Greer:

the crew in my notes.

Marie Vigouroux:

I think he says, ERT, but I'm not sure what

Marie Vigouroux:

that stands for, and I didn't want to look it up again, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

I don't know what they're gonna show me.

Jeremy Greer:

Essentially, we're gonna meet in just a few

Jeremy Greer:

minutes. We're gonna meet three side characters, supporting

Jeremy Greer:

character, characters that are, like the diagnostic crew.

Jeremy Greer:

They're the, you know, they're the people that are going to

Jeremy Greer:

come in and look at all of the fingerprints, and they're going

Jeremy Greer:

to look at all the materials and all that stuff. That's who he's

Jeremy Greer:

calling on board to basically dissect this crime scene.

Marie Vigouroux:

So they come back, we're going to see those

Marie Vigouroux:

people again.

Jeremy Greer:

Yes, all three of these, if you notice in the

Jeremy Greer:

credits, I'll get there in a minute. So they go upstairs to

Jeremy Greer:

look at, I think it's Elise's room. And the dad is like,

Jeremy Greer:

opening the door for will, and was like, Don't touch anything.

Jeremy Greer:

You can't even be in here. Hold the cat if it's better for you.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, so you won't touch anything. And it's a weird

Jeremy Greer:

moment, but it's, I think it's just there to show you like, oh,

Jeremy Greer:

we are going to respect this crime scene, like, we have to

Jeremy Greer:

make sure everything's exactly everything's exactly the way it

Jeremy Greer:

was. So when they walk in surprise, Elise is there laying

Jeremy Greer:

in bed. That

Marie Vigouroux:

Ugh! That was so horrifying, honestly, but the

Marie Vigouroux:

second that I saw the cat trying to get in, I was like, There's a

Marie Vigouroux:

dead body in there. Like, 100%.

Jeremy Greer:

100%.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, Oh my god. I was like, a cat trying to

Marie Vigouroux:

get into a locked room with murder going on. Yeah, for sure,

Marie Vigouroux:

100%.

Jeremy Greer:

Absolutely, yeah, the cat wants to eat the body.

Jeremy Greer:

That's unfortunately -

Marie Vigouroux:

I know! It wants to eat the eyes.

Jeremy Greer:

It wants to eat the eyes. And we love them

Jeremy Greer:

anyway. We love cats anyway. Let them eat eyes is what I say.

Marie Vigouroux:

I would let them eat my eyes, frankly.

Jeremy Greer:

So now that this is a crime scene and Will has a

Jeremy Greer:

body to work with, I find it very interesting that Jack, at

Jeremy Greer:

this moment, basically tells Will, like you have all of the

Jeremy Greer:

time that you need. He's not gonna invite the ERTs up. He's

Jeremy Greer:

gonna leave this crime scene for Will to kind of do his thing

Jeremy Greer:

with, right? He's just going to, you know, whatever you need to

Jeremy Greer:

do, do it. We're going to leave you alone to do it. And outside

Jeremy Greer:

is like this hive of activity, of cops pulling up, like, we got

Jeremy Greer:

to do all of this stuff. Everything's going crazy. We

Jeremy Greer:

have to get this body out of here. But, like, we're going to

Jeremy Greer:

block this off so that Will can do his thing. And I think if

Jeremy Greer:

you've watched a lot of like, crime material or crime like

Jeremy Greer:

media, I think this is very unusual, right? Like they don't

Jeremy Greer:

normally just let a dude sit in here and chill for 20 minutes by

Jeremy Greer:

himself.

Marie Vigouroux:

No, definitely not, especially if they're not,

Marie Vigouroux:

as we find out, like he's not an FBI agent, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Right.

Marie Vigouroux:

Right. So then, This is so then what - Well,

Marie Vigouroux:

anyway, maybe that's a question that's answered later. But then

Marie Vigouroux:

what is he? Because he's like, special investigator, what does

Marie Vigouroux:

that mean, anyway? Sorry.

Jeremy Greer:

So right now he's, he's technically in the next

Jeremy Greer:

episode, this will be, I think, explained in, like, handwritten

Jeremy Greer:

and hand waved away, so we won't have to worry about it anymore.

Marie Vigouroux:

So I'm like, why does he have a gun!

Jeremy Greer:

Right?

Marie Vigouroux:

That's my canadianness. I'm like, why does

Marie Vigouroux:

he have a gun? Anyway. Yeah, we're not allowed handguns here.

Marie Vigouroux:

So to me, like seeing somebody with a handgun is like a big

Marie Vigouroux:

deal.

Jeremy Greer:

I'll see a dude with a handgun at a Starbucks.

Jeremy Greer:

It's ridiculous. It's just so insane.

Marie Vigouroux:

I know

Jeremy Greer:

Will begins to focus, and the same thing that

Jeremy Greer:

happened in the cold open begins to happen. We see our sweep hand

Jeremy Greer:

appear in his mind as the sweet pan goes the blood. There's only

Jeremy Greer:

like small points of blood on Elise's body, but those

Jeremy Greer:

disappear, and now she's just sleeping. And as the sweep hand

Jeremy Greer:

continues, it finally gets to a starting point, and he leaps on

Jeremy Greer:

top of her, strangling her. And it's very intense, like when

Jeremy Greer:

Hugh goes from like everyday, Will, to serial killer, Will, it

Jeremy Greer:

is absolutely terrifying.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, yeah. It really was, frankly, I was like,

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh my God, is he - and then he got me wondering, like, is this

Marie Vigouroux:

- anyway, I'll talk about that a bit later, but I'm like, is it

Marie Vigouroux:

just imagination, or is he, like, fantasizing about this?

Jeremy Greer:

And that's, that's, that's gonna be

Jeremy Greer:

something that we delve into. So definitely keep asking that

Jeremy Greer:

question, because I think it's a very valid one of, like, what it

Jeremy Greer:

what? How much is this affecting his mind? Right? We, like, we

Jeremy Greer:

talk about forts in a little while, and we'll talk about some

Jeremy Greer:

of that stuff. He's interrupted by Beverly Katz. She's not named

Jeremy Greer:

in this episode. I hope that's her name. Yeah, that's her name.

Jeremy Greer:

I couldn't remember if that was her name or her actual in real

Jeremy Greer:

life, name. Beverly Katz is one of the three people we're gonna

Jeremy Greer:

continue. It's gonna support these cases, to help work these

Jeremy Greer:

cases with Jack. She's not supposed to be in here, and she

Jeremy Greer:

instantly challenges Will on you know why he's not an FBI agent.

Jeremy Greer:

He's like, Well, I keep failing the test. And she's like, well,

Jeremy Greer:

the tests are there to detect instability. Are you

Jeremy Greer:

unstable?And it's like, she's kind of like, she's kind of got

Jeremy Greer:

this look on her face, like she's impressed with him because

Jeremy Greer:

she knows who he is. Like, she's read his work. But also, like,

Jeremy Greer:

Why aren't you in the field doing what we do? Like, why

Jeremy Greer:

aren't you, like, a real FBI agent? Quote, unquote. And it's

Jeremy Greer:

kind of interesting. I like, I like Beverly Katz a lot. She's

Jeremy Greer:

gonna play a big role in the series.

Marie Vigouroux:

And again, like, I find that that, you

Marie Vigouroux:

know, are you unstable, is kind of charged also, right? Because

Marie Vigouroux:

it's like, well, I mean, from what we've seen, it's possible,

Marie Vigouroux:

and you can tell that this is a case that's being built slowly

Marie Vigouroux:

by the show to kind of characterize Will and - and it

Marie Vigouroux:

gets me thinking, actually, when we when we got to that point in

Marie Vigouroux:

the episode, I was like, is this? Is this the real mystery

Marie Vigouroux:

of the episode. Who is Will Graham? What kind of person is

Marie Vigouroux:

he? Because as somebody who, like, doesn't know anything

Marie Vigouroux:

about Hannibal or the Hannibal franchise, like, I know who

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal Lecter is, right. Like, you can say the name, and I'm

Marie Vigouroux:

like, okay, cannibal. Like, I know that. But who is Will

Marie Vigouroux:

Graham, I don't know. And I feel like this is really what this,

Marie Vigouroux:

this episode, is doing

Jeremy Greer:

And this is almost wholly original. So Will, Graham

Jeremy Greer:

is definitely a character in the books, like the first books are

Jeremy Greer:

will and Hannibal. Will using Hannibal to help track down

Jeremy Greer:

serial killers and and their relationship, like being this

Jeremy Greer:

push and pull of information and psychiatric breakdowns and

Jeremy Greer:

things like that. But we don't really get this adaptation of

Jeremy Greer:

Will in the books or the movies. It's a much more straightforward

Jeremy Greer:

approach. And so this is very, very unique. And one of the best

Jeremy Greer:

thing, one of the things I love the most about the show is how,

Jeremy Greer:

just how they treat Will. It's not going to be great all the

Jeremy Greer:

time -

Marie Vigouroux:

I can tell!

Jeremy Greer:

But it's also very, very fascinating. Yeah,

Jeremy Greer:

Will's going to go through, go through some stuff. Let's just

Jeremy Greer:

say that.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, just the amount of blood that he was

Marie Vigouroux:

covered in, like in this episode, I'm like, Oh man, I

Marie Vigouroux:

feel like this is just the beginning for him.

Jeremy Greer:

I'd be very curious. I haven't read

Jeremy Greer:

interviews with the cast often, but you know, like filming

Jeremy Greer:

Supernatural Jared Padaleki had issues with like, channeling

Jeremy Greer:

Lucifer, and it caused mental health issues and things like

Jeremy Greer:

that. He's talked very openly about that. I wonder if, how

Jeremy Greer:

much this affected Hugh, because having to play this role with

Jeremy Greer:

such intensity, and he does, like he keeps up this level of

Jeremy Greer:

energy throughout the entire three seasons, is - has to

Jeremy Greer:

affect you in some way. I'm gonna, I'm gonna look at some of

Jeremy Greer:

that. We'll have some of that for some

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, yeah, I would love to know that. I can't

Jeremy Greer:

No, you wouldn't be able to. They would just be

Marie Vigouroux:

Just left. He took the car and he left, hehe

Marie Vigouroux:

look that up.

Marie Vigouroux:

talking about the supposed season four or movie that they

Marie Vigouroux:

keep talking about that never happened. So the ERT crew found

Marie Vigouroux:

antler velvet in the wound. So that's a big thing. And Will

Marie Vigouroux:

looks at this and kind of announces to the room that this

Marie Vigouroux:

was an apology of whatever this killer was able to do to Elise

Marie Vigouroux:

he wasn't able to do to the others. So he brought Elise back

Marie Vigouroux:

and, like, placed her here as an apology. And then he'd like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

assume, like we cut to just him driving home, but I just assumed

Marie Vigouroux:

that he left the room after that because that's the kind of dude

Marie Vigouroux:

he is, right. I'm gonna drop that weirdo, like line, and then

Marie Vigouroux:

See you later, everybody not even to see you later, just like

Marie Vigouroux:

a turn around and like, march down the stairs.

Marie Vigouroux:

left Jack stranded there. Somebody else had to give him a

Marie Vigouroux:

lift. So relatable, I feel that.

Jeremy Greer:

Jack is driving home to his home, driving to his

Jeremy Greer:

home in Wolf Trap Virginia, where he see, when he sees a

Jeremy Greer:

stray dog. Fortunately, I don't think any dogs are harmed in

Jeremy Greer:

this. I'll just go and say that out loud. It's a spoiler, pretty

Jeremy Greer:

sure.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh my god, thank you so much.

Jeremy Greer:

But it is one of those shows where you're like,

Jeremy Greer:

Oh, they're gonna kill this damn dog, like they're gonna do

Jeremy Greer:

something.

Marie Vigouroux:

Listen, you saw my notes, right? I took some

Marie Vigouroux:

handwritten notes, and I sent you a picture, and one of the

Marie Vigouroux:

lines was, please don't kill the dog.

Jeremy Greer:

Please, please don't kill the dog. He takes

Jeremy Greer:

the dog home, we get like a kind of a montage of him bathing the

Jeremy Greer:

dog and blow drying the hair, and then introducing the dog to

Jeremy Greer:

all of his other dogs, which also look like rescues, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Like they all look like he's got, like, five or six dogs in a

Jeremy Greer:

pile that are just, you know, that they all seem like he is

Jeremy Greer:

rescued. I think you mentioned this earlier, but like, just

Jeremy Greer:

another kind of insight to his mind, of that, like, I'm sure,

Jeremy Greer:

if you're that empathic, if you - it's that easy to see into

Jeremy Greer:

someone else's mind, like having dog companions around to you,

Jeremy Greer:

which is the best animal in the world? Like, can be, really, can

Jeremy Greer:

be relieving from that.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, and just the way that he talks to them,

Marie Vigouroux:

too, he's like, introducing them, you know, in a way that he

Marie Vigouroux:

doesn't even introduce himself or others, like, when it comes

Marie Vigouroux:

to people.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah!

Marie Vigouroux:

He's so, I don't want to say incapable, but

Marie Vigouroux:

he just does not do that around people. And yet, with dogs, it

Marie Vigouroux:

just comes, like, naturally. His tone of voice is different,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, you can just tell how much more comfortable he is around

Jeremy Greer:

Very good observation. I didn't really

Jeremy Greer:

these dogs.

Jeremy Greer:

think about that as like to compare and contrast that with

Jeremy Greer:

the treatment of people. That night, he's sleeping, and he

Jeremy Greer:

looks over in his bed and he sees a dead Elise laying next to

Jeremy Greer:

him, she begins to float up towards the sky, and then he

Jeremy Greer:

wakes up in kind of a shock, and he is so sweaty from this dream

Jeremy Greer:

that he has to, like, strip off his shirt and literally, go get

Jeremy Greer:

a towel to put on his sheet so that he can go back to sleep.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm just gonna say maybe note that in your mind and -

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh.

Jeremy Greer:

Not gonna just, you know, hey, there's a thing

Jeremy Greer:

that happened.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh no, oh no. Oh, this is how it feels. I hate

Marie Vigouroux:

it!

Jeremy Greer:

You are now the Drew in this relationship!

Jeremy Greer:

For listeners that may not know on Mary's podcast,

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh no!

Marie Vigouroux:

Carrying Wayward about Supernatural, she does this to

Marie Vigouroux:

Drew all the time -

Marie Vigouroux:

All the time! And I'm so mean about it, too!

Jeremy Greer:

And Drew takes it in stride. He's like, I'll know

Jeremy Greer:

when it comes up, but yeah, it's - I'm going to make Mary's life

Jeremy Greer:

miserable over the next few weeks.

Marie Vigouroux:

I look forward to it. Thank you very much.

Jeremy Greer:

So we go back over to Quantico. Jack is frustrated

Jeremy Greer:

with progress on this case. He's like, literally hitting the

Jeremy Greer:

victim board. Will is like, washing his hands in the

Jeremy Greer:

bathroom. When Jack marches in, and if somebody like, follows

Jeremy Greer:

him in to use the bathroom, Jack barks at him go to the women's

Jeremy Greer:

room. It's very, it's very -

Marie Vigouroux:

He's so mad about it.

Jeremy Greer:

Overbearing FBI, kind of, you know, boss dude.

Jeremy Greer:

And he tells will that he needs to be in the saddle. And, and,

Jeremy Greer:

you know, Will is like, I'm in the saddle, I just don't know

Jeremy Greer:

what direction I'm pacing, but he needs to know. He needs Will

Jeremy Greer:

to break this guy down, like, and he even says he initially

Jeremy Greer:

gets what kind of crazy is he, which is probably not an

Jeremy Greer:

appropriate way to refer to people, but like, we're in the

Jeremy Greer:

FBI chasing a serial killer, so I guess they get some leniency,

Jeremy Greer:

right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, there you go. And like, he screams that,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? Like he's really pushing him. And this is such a stark

Marie Vigouroux:

contrast compared to what he was doing earlier. Of like, take

Marie Vigouroux:

your time. No worries. If you need anything, we're here, but

Marie Vigouroux:

here because he needs the answers now, he's pushing him,

Marie Vigouroux:

which is, again, like something where I'm like, Are you really

Marie Vigouroux:

his friend? Or are you just using him? I don't know, and

Marie Vigouroux:

especially when we know, as the audience, that like Will is so

Marie Vigouroux:

clearly affected by this. Because when he's like, washing

Marie Vigouroux:

his face before Jack comes in, he's like, seeing this blood,

Marie Vigouroux:

like in the water, and then when he's talking to Jack, his voice

Marie Vigouroux:

is really unsteady, and so it's like, is that the cost of his

Marie Vigouroux:

imagination and his empathy?

Jeremy Greer:

And we saw the difference, you mentioned this

Jeremy Greer:

earlier, like the difference in color temperature when he's

Jeremy Greer:

watching his face, when his face is underwater, we see that blood

Jeremy Greer:

come in, like it's it's that warmer color again, and then we

Jeremy Greer:

go back to reality, like almost immediately we start seeing

Jeremy Greer:

that, like Will's barriers, his forts, as he's gonna call them

Jeremy Greer:

earlier, are maybe not as strong as we they need to be. Will

Jeremy Greer:

begins to kind of posit these theories about this killer,

Jeremy Greer:

eventually getting to the point where he calls him a sensitive

Jeremy Greer:

psychopath, because he doesn't, necessarily, he doesn't, he

Jeremy Greer:

doesn't fit all of the traits of a quote, unquote, normal

Jeremy Greer:

psychopath, of a regular psychopath that they would

Jeremy Greer:

normally track down, like, he's respecting these women, he loves

Jeremy Greer:

them even as he's killing them. And it's, you know, it's just

Jeremy Greer:

kind of a, like, it's one of those things. I think this is

Jeremy Greer:

supposed to be like a hook of like, Oh my God. It's sensitive

Jeremy Greer:

psychopath. It's like one of those, like, TV show, like,

Jeremy Greer:

gotcha kind of things. Like, we've never seen one of these

Jeremy Greer:

before. But it also works in the in the - It works in the in the

Jeremy Greer:

context of the show. I think.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, I think when you, when you say it like

Marie Vigouroux:

that, it sounds a little hammy, but then, like, I wasn't even

Marie Vigouroux:

shocked when he said it. I was like, okay, yeah, that works.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like everything just works and flows really well.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah. The something we haven't really

Jeremy Greer:

talked about, and we'll talk about more when Hannibal shows

Jeremy Greer:

up, is that the dialog in this show is incredible. I could, I

Jeremy Greer:

could, literally just like, quote, it's so I just write down

Jeremy Greer:

the quotes of the show and talk about them. I love them so much.

Marie Vigouroux:

I actually had to use, like, I went to the the

Marie Vigouroux:

transcripts, just because, like, sometimes I have trouble with

Marie Vigouroux:

accents in English, and I had trouble understanding Mads a

Marie Vigouroux:

little bit. So I was reading the transcript, and I'm like, Oh my

Marie Vigouroux:

god. This is so good. This is amazing. Oh, my God. Oh my god.

Marie Vigouroux:

Anyway, loved it.

Jeremy Greer:

Beverly is slowly but surely, like scraping down

Jeremy Greer:

Elise's dress that she was found in, and she finds something

Jeremy Greer:

peculiar. This is going to be a metal shaving. This will be kind

Jeremy Greer:

of our, our key to finding the killer eventually. Well, and I

Jeremy Greer:

love I grew up reading a lot of what I like to call, like,

Jeremy Greer:

airport books, like the Patricia Cornwell and the, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

James Pattersons and that kind of stuff. And it's because my

Jeremy Greer:

mom read them. So they were just the books that were around. So I

Jeremy Greer:

just read a lot of them, and it's a lot of like, Oh, we found

Jeremy Greer:

a tiny thing and it led to a bigger thing. And this show,

Jeremy Greer:

especially at the beginning, the show, kind of leans on that, and

Jeremy Greer:

it's something I like, so I wanted to call it out.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, yeah, it pays, it pays homage almost to

Marie Vigouroux:

that genre of, like, of investigative, well, I think

Marie Vigouroux:

they said investigative, uh, story beats, right? I think is,

Marie Vigouroux:

is how he says it at the beginning. And I just thought I

Marie Vigouroux:

was like, Okay, I know about this. I know this is familiar to

Marie Vigouroux:

me, like I've seen this before.

Jeremy Greer:

We go back to Quantico, where Jack is talking

Jeremy Greer:

to a new character, Alana Bloom. She is played by Caroline

Jeremy Greer:

Dhavernas, who is I associate with Brian Fuller's work. She's

Jeremy Greer:

done a bunch of stuff, but she was in Wonder Fall. She was in

Jeremy Greer:

Pushing Daisies. This is going to be - she's kind of our - I'm

Jeremy Greer:

not going to say that out loud. Almost said that she was going

Jeremy Greer:

to be the Castiel of this, of our trio.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh no!

Jeremy Greer:

But it's not, it's not anything. I just wanted to

Jeremy Greer:

say that she was going to show up a lot. She's going to be a

Jeremy Greer:

main character. Don't want to have all of the implications

Jeremy Greer:

that come from - and we haven't even decided who Sam and who's

Jeremy Greer:

Dean yet, but that'll be, that'll be later down the line.

Marie Vigouroux:

Maybe we can talk about that like in the

Marie Vigouroux:

second episode.

Jeremy Greer:

But Jack is meeting with Alana, who is a

Jeremy Greer:

contemporary of Jack's. She teaches at Quantico. She's She

Jeremy Greer:

was - Jack actually, excuse me, Will actually referenced her

Jeremy Greer:

earlier, when Jack was asking him to come to indication, he

Jeremy Greer:

was, like, you've got Alana Bloom. Like, get her to do this.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, this is what she does. And Jack is specifically asking

Jeremy Greer:

Alana, who is Will's friend, to basically be his psychiatric

Jeremy Greer:

like shield. Jack says, I can keep him safe when he's out

Jeremy Greer:

there. I can keep him covered, but maybe only 80% of the time,

Jeremy Greer:

and I need your help with the rest. In other words, like if he

Jeremy Greer:

gets too close to this stuff, it's gonna affect him, and we

Jeremy Greer:

need to be aware of that and figure out how to work around

Marie Vigouroux:

And so here she says that, you know what drives

Marie Vigouroux:

it.

Marie Vigouroux:

him? She asks Jack, What do you think is his strongest

Marie Vigouroux:

motivator? And the answer to that, apparently, is fear. Fear

Marie Vigouroux:

is the thing that drives him and again, like, I think it connects

Marie Vigouroux:

back to this idea of, like him having nightmares. And like the

Marie Vigouroux:

cost of his imagination, that is what happens when he starts

Marie Vigouroux:

using it for that, for the purpose of empathizing with

Marie Vigouroux:

serial killers, is that he becomes more and more fearful.

Marie Vigouroux:

And maybe that's the thing that, like, breaks down some of the

Marie Vigouroux:

barriers in his mind a little bit.

Jeremy Greer:

Exactly. Yeah. She finishes this conversation with

Jeremy Greer:

a - requesting a promise from Jack, don't let him get too

Jeremy Greer:

close. And I think that plays into everything she just said,

Jeremy Greer:

right? Like, if he gets too close to these killers, who

Jeremy Greer:

knows what, what's going - How is going to affect him? Like, we

Jeremy Greer:

have no idea, like, what his empathy cost him. We just don't

Jeremy Greer:

know. And then it's time for everybody's favorite thing in a

Jeremy Greer:

crime, since you it's time for an autopsy.

Marie Vigouroux:

Love that!

Jeremy Greer:

This is one of the, this is one of many moments

Jeremy Greer:

where Will is just standing there and everybody gets very

Jeremy Greer:

awkward around how to just, it's just, it speaks to like, you

Jeremy Greer:

know, a him being on the spectrum and not being able to

Jeremy Greer:

engage socially in a way that I think most people would expect,

Jeremy Greer:

and then also, like, he just says things just really freak

Jeremy Greer:

everybody out. And it's so good, it's so fascinating. They're

Jeremy Greer:

analyzing the body, and, you know, determining that, like,

Jeremy Greer:

they this antler velvet was in her wounds. When he begins to

Jeremy Greer:

see, kind of this vision of her mounted on a - on antlers, and

Jeremy Greer:

he says that, like, he says it out loud, and everyone's like,

Jeremy Greer:

all right. And then they noticed something particularly weird,

Jeremy Greer:

which was that the deliver has been cut out and then put back

Jeremy Greer:

in, and that causes Jack, or Will to have a, I don't know why

Jeremy Greer:

I'm getting Jack and will confused so much. I'm so sorry

Jeremy Greer:

everybody.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, that's fine.

Jeremy Greer:

This causes Will to kind of make one of these

Jeremy Greer:

like, Will Graham intuitive leaps, and he says, There's

Jeremy Greer:

something wrong with the meat. And everybody is like, What the

Jeremy Greer:

fuck did you just say

Marie Vigouroux:

This - It causes complete horror in the

Marie Vigouroux:

autopsy room. Like, that's exactly what you were saying.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, making it weird for everybody. Like, people just,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, slowly turn to him, like, what did you just say? Oh my

Marie Vigouroux:

god.

Jeremy Greer:

And we find out that Elise had liver cancer, so

Jeremy Greer:

he cut out the liver, something bad with it. And then this makes

Jeremy Greer:

Will realize that's the reason we're not finding the bodies,

Jeremy Greer:

he's eating them. And then from there, we smash cut to Hannibal,

Jeremy Greer:

and it's such a good, such a good transition. Like nobody,

Jeremy Greer:

none of the teenagers on Tiktok can do a transition that's good.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, it's so good. It's so so delicious. Like, I just, I love

Jeremy Greer:

it because, and it's, I'm very curious how this lands with you.

Jeremy Greer:

Obviously, we know Hannibal is a cannibal, so we go from he's

Jeremy Greer:

eating them to the primary, the titular character of the show,

Jeremy Greer:

like having a meal and listening to classical music and looking,

Jeremy Greer:

you know, just as fancy as all get out. And I know that this is

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal. I'm assuming that you picked it up. That was Hannibal.

Jeremy Greer:

But, like, did this land? Were you? Like, holy shit? Because I

Jeremy Greer:

was like, yes, it's a really good moment.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay, so immediately I was like, and

Marie Vigouroux:

that's Hannibal. Like, that's him. I know who this is. Like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

was actually really excited, because I'm like, Okay, I know

Marie Vigouroux:

who this is. And for a second, I sort of, like, assumed that

Marie Vigouroux:

maybe it was him who was killing, like, these, these

Marie Vigouroux:

girls, right? And eating them. Because I'm like, how many

Marie Vigouroux:

possible cannibals can they possibly have in one episode.

Jeremy Greer:

Well, it turns out!

Marie Vigouroux:

Exactly. Which I thought was really funny.

Jeremy Greer:

And it's such a brief scene, like, it doesn't

Jeremy Greer:

last very long, right? Like, we see him eating, listening to

Jeremy Greer:

classical music, and it just fades to black. It's very good.

Marie Vigouroux:

And he's like, cutting this piece of meat that

Marie Vigouroux:

actually really looks like liver. And I'm like, this is, is

Marie Vigouroux:

he - Is he actually like eating, them? Like, what is happening?

Jeremy Greer:

The food - I need to look at the name of the chef,

Jeremy Greer:

but they have a professional chef consulting on the show to

Jeremy Greer:

make all of the meals, like, look incredible and to look like

Jeremy Greer:

just amazing. And you'll - throughout the show if you're,

Jeremy Greer:

if you're a food person, like, if you like fancy meals at all,

Jeremy Greer:

like, you're gonna be drooling, as they show you, like, all of

Jeremy Greer:

these, all of these different dishes. But the chef is also,

Jeremy Greer:

like, specifically consulted with how to make it look like

Jeremy Greer:

human. Like, how to make it look like so, like the scene in a

Jeremy Greer:

little bit where he's, like, we're gonna get with Hannibaland

Jeremy Greer:

the lungs, like, they specifically designed that and

Jeremy Greer:

made it look like, this is how you would prepare lungs, if you

Jeremy Greer:

were to cook them. They just happen to be human. Like, it's,

Jeremy Greer:

it's supposed to be extremely horrifying, but also, like,

Jeremy Greer:

accurate at the same time, like, I think the chef was, quote, It

Jeremy Greer:

was like, well, that's how you would that's, that's what you

Jeremy Greer:

would want to eat from a human, is the lungs. Like, it was just

Jeremy Greer:

one of those. It's very, very wild,

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, there you go. Because the way that he was

Marie Vigouroux:

preparing everything seemed really like, expertly done,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? And so I was like, okay, yeah, this is how you would

Marie Vigouroux:

technically prepare human lungs. I guess. Just couldn't believe

Marie Vigouroux:

that it felt so normalized already in my mind, oh yes.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, oh no.

Jeremy Greer:

It's, it's horrific. Hannibal has a way of

Jeremy Greer:

just like, getting you into the horror and making you like,

Jeremy Greer:

think things are normal in a way that is very, very good. Like, I

Jeremy Greer:

think that's the the main thing. The main draw of the character

Jeremy Greer:

across all of the adaptations, is his ability to get into your

Jeremy Greer:

brain and get you on his side.

Marie Vigouroux:

Maybe that's the horror of it all, really.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, absolutely.

Marie Vigouroux:

That you start empathizing with him.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, once you, once you get to the point where

Jeremy Greer:

you're like, he's my He's my baby. I wanna put him in my

Jeremy Greer:

pocket. I'm gonna have to remind you: He's a cannibal Mary. He

Jeremy Greer:

eats people. He's not a good guy.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay, okay, you're gonna have to remind me

Marie Vigouroux:

of that a couple of times. Okay, just letting you know already.

Jeremy Greer:

This next scene, if we see Hannibal, he is an

Jeremy Greer:

active psychiatrist, so he's, you know, he's seen one of his

Jeremy Greer:

patients, a patient named Franklin um, Franklin. Franklin

Jeremy Greer:

is struggling with his neuroses. He calls himself very neurotic.

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal describes it as him feeling as he was on the verge

Jeremy Greer:

of a lion eating him, and he has to, he says, you know, the key

Jeremy Greer:

is to make sure that you realize that the lion isn't real

Jeremy Greer:

throughout this. This is something that Hannibal does

Jeremy Greer:

really well, which is just gonna be anathema on this podcast ,

Jeremy Greer:

because there's like four things happening in the same scene. So

Jeremy Greer:

the show takes five minutes to show you, like four things, and

Jeremy Greer:

we're gonna spend 20 minutes talking about every single one

Jeremy Greer:

of them.

Marie Vigouroux:

That's what happens when shows are well

Marie Vigouroux:

done, though.

Jeremy Greer:

Absolutely, absolutely. During this,

Jeremy Greer:

Franklin, like, holds out his hand for tissue. And Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

hands him one, and as he like cleans his face, Franklin

Jeremy Greer:

reaches over and places a use tissue just on the table beside

Jeremy Greer:

him, on the side table, and you can see the absolute displeasure

Jeremy Greer:

in Hannibal's face ss this happens. He is disgusted by this

Jeremy Greer:

act, and you could just see like he just, he has just such utter,

Jeremy Greer:

just hatred for Franklin doing this. It's so good Mads does

Jeremy Greer:

this so well. I just, I am astonished with how good he does

Jeremy Greer:

this with like, Oh, look.

Marie Vigouroux:

He is honestly like, Okay, so the first time I

Marie Vigouroux:

saw him on screen as Hannibal, already, you can tell that like

Marie Vigouroux:

he's going to be amazing. But then in this scene, I found

Marie Vigouroux:

that, like, he plays really well on the dramatic irony I find

Marie Vigouroux:

because, like, we know who Hannibal Lecter is, and there's

Marie Vigouroux:

a feeling of imminent danger, right when he talks about, like

Marie Vigouroux:

the lion on the verge of eating, on the verge of eating the

Marie Vigouroux:

patient, I was like, Oh my God. Is he actually gonna eat him?

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, is he gonna kill him? Is that what's gonna happen? And

Marie Vigouroux:

now he's pissed him off. He's for sure, gonna eat him. And so

Marie Vigouroux:

like you feel this feeling of danger as the audience like you,

Marie Vigouroux:

and that's exactly what he's talking about. I just - mind

Marie Vigouroux:

blown.

Jeremy Greer:

So good. As they're exiting, they find Jack

Jeremy Greer:

Crawford waiting in the exit path. And Hannibal doesn't like

Jeremy Greer:

this either. He notes that this is a private exit for his

Jeremy Greer:

patients. And there's some like, back and forth, where, I think

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal says, unless you're here for Franklin, and Jack is

Jeremy Greer:

like, No, I'm only here for you. And like, Franklin is looking

Jeremy Greer:

back and forth, is like, it's a tennis match, like he has no

Jeremy Greer:

idea what to say, like he's in the room with one of my favorite

Jeremy Greer:

moments of Supernatural - Listeners, we're gonna talk

Jeremy Greer:

about Supernatural a lot on this podcast, so apologies in

Jeremy Greer:

advance, but I think it's season one where they meet the siren,

Jeremy Greer:

and the siren like infects both of their brains, and the two

Jeremy Greer:

brothers are arguing with each other, and the siren just like,

Jeremy Greer:

literally sits down and gets comfortable and looks back and

Jeremy Greer:

forth. Like Franklin has that exact vibe. He's just look like,

Jeremy Greer:

what is happening with all these people that are above me,

Jeremy Greer:

basically. Hannibal does the this great move where he's like,

Jeremy Greer:

you can come in, but you need to wait into my in my lobby for a

Jeremy Greer:

little while. Love that. I love this.

Marie Vigouroux:

Power move.

Jeremy Greer:

Absolutely.

Marie Vigouroux:

Power move. Good for him.

Jeremy Greer:

And then there's this, when Jack is finally let

Jeremy Greer:

in, they don't know one another, but they know of one another,

Jeremy Greer:

Jack starts making some pretty astute observations about

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal's history, like he's read papers he was referred to

Jeremy Greer:

and by AlanaBloom. You can tell Hannibal at first, is very

Jeremy Greer:

standoffish, like is this man investigating me?

Marie Vigouroux:

I know, yeah!

Jeremy Greer:

And it's, it's crazy, because, like, the only

Jeremy Greer:

thing you know about you, specifically Mary, know about

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal is that he's a serial killer. Like, so presumably,

Jeremy Greer:

like, he's, he's, he's been killing some people serially,

Jeremy Greer:

and like, He's worried that the FBI just showed up at his door,

Jeremy Greer:

but we don't know that in the context of the show, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Like, we haven't seen him do anything yet, yeah?

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah. But, like, that's always a bad sign,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? If you're, if you're out there killing people and like,

Marie Vigouroux:

the FBI shows up at your - bad sign. Just bad vibes all around.

Marie Vigouroux:

So I get that he would be, like, very standoffish.

Jeremy Greer:

There's a lot of really tiny details that speak

Jeremy Greer:

to Hannibal's fastidiousness that I want to talk about. We're

Jeremy Greer:

gonna we're gonna encounter this throughout the show, like we

Jeremy Greer:

just saw it with the disused tissue. Jack walks over and sees

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal's drawings, and they're these architectural drawings of

Jeremy Greer:

his boyhood school. That's actually kind of a thing that

Jeremy Greer:

gets explored a lot. Thomas Harris doesn't do a really good

Jeremy Greer:

job with like, the Hannibal origin stories, but fortunately,

Jeremy Greer:

we don't have to worry about that. So don't. We could just

Jeremy Greer:

get past it. But it's these really, really detailed

Jeremy Greer:

architectural drawings. And when Jack observes that Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

says, I've always felt like it you get a better point to a

Jeremy Greer:

pencil with a scalpel rather than a pencil sharpener, and we

Jeremy Greer:

see him sharpening a pencil. And like the idea that he's using a

Jeremy Greer:

very precise, sharp instrument to do a run, to be like a rough

Jeremy Greer:

cut, is something that I find fascinating. Like it speaks to

Jeremy Greer:

his ability to control things around him, to control these

Jeremy Greer:

tiny details. It's just -

Marie Vigouroux:

His ability or his need?

Jeremy Greer:

Both, absolutely, both, yes, absolutely,

Marie Vigouroux:

because, because, to me, like this seems

Marie Vigouroux:

almost compulsive where it's like, I need to make this like,

Marie Vigouroux:

as as fine a point as possible. And I'm like, not that I relate

Marie Vigouroux:

to that in any way, shape or form, but maybe I do a little

Marie Vigouroux:

bit.

Jeremy Greer:

No, I think it's - I think the term OCD is throwing

Jeremy Greer:

around, probably without regard to its actual origin or

Jeremy Greer:

anything. So I don't really want to use that, but it's that's

Jeremy Greer:

kind of about, I stress the word fastidiousness of him, wanting

Jeremy Greer:

to control those things around him, his need to have things

Jeremy Greer:

precise, just the way that he wants them. And we're going to

Jeremy Greer:

see that reflected across the series. This is going to be a

Jeremy Greer:

big thing as part it's like one of the big, like, Hallmark

Jeremy Greer:

character traits of Hannibal. Which is why, when you see him

Jeremy Greer:

in prison, like in the movies, it's so fascinating, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Because he doesn't have any of that stuff around him. So it's,

Jeremy Greer:

you know, that's -

Marie Vigouroux:

Arguably has no control whatsoever, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Jack is making small talk, and it's kind of,

Jeremy Greer:

it's kind of a weird back and forth, and you have this note in

Jeremy Greer:

here, like, was he flattering him? You don't really know what

Jeremy Greer:

Jack is doing here. Like, we know that he's kind of

Jeremy Greer:

recruiting Hannibal, but we don't know, like, what why, or

Jeremy Greer:

what that relationship is, and he kind of wants to seem

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, on anything that's going on. Okay, cool.

Jeremy Greer:

standoffish to Hannibal, but the same time, he calls himself,

Jeremy Greer:

like a literal layman, compared to Hannibal's skills when it

Jeremy Greer:

turns comes to, like, understanding the psychology.

Jeremy Greer:

Because when he you know compliments, Hannibal, Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

is like, Well, you're the head dude at the FBI, bro, like you

Jeremy Greer:

control the behavioral unit at the FBI. Like, you have to

Jeremy Greer:

understand this stuff, and Jack flips it right. He's like, no,

Jeremy Greer:

no. But compared to you, I'm a layman, which is another again,

Jeremy Greer:

is Jack using people as tools, or is he just saying stuff that

Jeremy Greer:

he actually means so?

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, there you go. Because if he's if he really

Marie Vigouroux:

means that, then like, it means that he was clearly star struck

Marie Vigouroux:

by this person. But also it like, I don't see somebody who

Marie Vigouroux:

becomes, like, the director of the behavioral unit, or whatever

Marie Vigouroux:

it is - his title is as somebody who would be, like, insecure,

Marie Vigouroux:

necessarily, right? Like they have to know that they can get

Marie Vigouroux:

the job done. Like, if you're solving murders, like one would

Marie Vigouroux:

assume that you need to have that kind of like grounding. So

Marie Vigouroux:

like to see him being like, Oh no, but I'm just a layman, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

it just doesn't feel genuine. It doesn't feel right in that way.

Marie Vigouroux:

So again, I feel like I'm much more questioning of Jack's

Marie Vigouroux:

intentions than Hannibal's, because Hannibal, I know, like

Marie Vigouroux:

serial killer, but Jack, I don't know.

Jeremy Greer:

I love that.

Marie Vigouroux:

No, but it's easy, right? Like just boom,

Marie Vigouroux:

label.

Jeremy Greer:

Absolutely love that. So Jack brings hand well

Jeremy Greer:

to his office, we learned that a local police has leaked the

Jeremy Greer:

image of Elise's dead body, which has caused a surge in

Jeremy Greer:

false confessions after it was posted on is it the Tattletale

Jeremy Greer:

or the Tatler Freddie, Freddie Lounds', you know, we're gonna,

Jeremy Greer:

we're gonna learn a lot more about Freddie. So don't, don't

Jeremy Greer:

worry, just put that in your back pocket for now.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay, because I saw something, actually, because

Marie Vigouroux:

I looked up like the cast, because I wanted to know who the

Marie Vigouroux:

cast was, and then I saw that like, Freddie shows up. Like,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, it seems like there's something about that character

Marie Vigouroux:

that shows up again.

Jeremy Greer:

Oh yeah, we're gonna learn who she is.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh man.

Jeremy Greer:

We'll talk about it when we get there too. But

Jeremy Greer:

that character is also in the books, but as a male character,

Jeremy Greer:

and they made her a female character here, which I find

Jeremy Greer:

very fascinating. Will calls this tasteless and this is will

Jeremy Greer:

and Hannibal meeting for the first time. And immediately they

Jeremy Greer:

get into this, like, almost sparring dialog, where they're

Jeremy Greer:

going back and forth. And I wish I could just transcribe the

Jeremy Greer:

whole thing and say it out, but like, it's just because kind of

Jeremy Greer:

respond, like, do you have issues with taste? And they go

Jeremy Greer:

back and forth between like, then they start talking about

Jeremy Greer:

the forts in their mind, preventing things from going

Jeremy Greer:

back forth. And like, maybe the forts aren't as good as you

Jeremy Greer:

think. Like, it's just like they're already trying to, like,

Jeremy Greer:

dissect one another. It's just an instant that they get there.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal notes that will doesn't like to make

Jeremy Greer:

eye contact, and will says that it affects his focus when you

Jeremy Greer:

can see all those things that people want and need and like,

Jeremy Greer:

as he's saying this, he looks Hannibal in the eyes, and like,

Jeremy Greer:

the two of them are just locked in with each other almost

Jeremy Greer:

immediately.

Marie Vigouroux:

So it seems like this is the first time

Marie Vigouroux:

that, like, Will is actually looking Hannibal in the eye

Marie Vigouroux:

right, like, because there's a the comment about eye contact,

Marie Vigouroux:

and then will looks up at him, and the look that Hannibal gives

Marie Vigouroux:

Will when he's actually looking up at him, like, completely

Marie Vigouroux:

smitten, like this, man already has Hannibal in his pocket.

Marie Vigouroux:

100%.

Jeremy Greer:

Just done, just like, immediately, like Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

is, like, this is the most interesting person I've ever met

Jeremy Greer:

in my entire life. Like, I have to have him.

Marie Vigouroux:

I have to have him!

Jeremy Greer:

I need that man!

Marie Vigouroux:

I need him now. I love that. And he says, You

Marie Vigouroux:

know, I imagine that what you see and learn touches everything

Marie Vigouroux:

else in your mind, your values and decency are present yet

Marie Vigouroux:

shocked at your associations, appalled at your dreams. Oh!

Jeremy Greer:

So good. It's so good. Mary. Like, just like,

Jeremy Greer:

this is on, this is on mainstream television, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Like, this is the like, I just like, it's so beautifully

Jeremy Greer:

written for - and there's, there's going to be so much of

Jeremy Greer:

this, even in this episode later, when they're sitting down

Jeremy Greer:

with breakfast, like, the back and forth, there is incredible.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, the breakfast scene. OhGod, I love

Marie Vigouroux:

it.

Jeremy Greer:

This is at the point where will realize is

Jeremy Greer:

like, are you? Are you profiling me? Like, are you? And he's and

Jeremy Greer:

he's so offended, he's absolutely offended. He and he

Jeremy Greer:

and he yells at Jack, like, who's whose profile is he

Jeremy Greer:

working on? And he like, storms out of the room because he has

Jeremy Greer:

to go, like, teach a class. And I - it's, you could tell he is

Jeremy Greer:

just so angry about this.

Marie Vigouroux:

He's really upset about it. And I think

Marie Vigouroux:

obviously, like, with reason, because he wasn't really told

Marie Vigouroux:

that he was going to be profiled in this moment, right? I think

Marie Vigouroux:

that shows one that he's able to tell that he's being profiled,

Marie Vigouroux:

which I really, really appreciate it. And again, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

as a first time watcher, this is where I felt that we were

Marie Vigouroux:

getting a little bit into, like, the theme and even the meta of

Marie Vigouroux:

the episode, right? Because I am, like, I've been saying, much

Marie Vigouroux:

more interested in who Will is, than, like, whoever this

Marie Vigouroux:

cannibal killer is, and even Hannibal, to a certain degree,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? Like, Will, I'm like, that's who I'm interested in

Marie Vigouroux:

getting to know. And so, like, you can tell that he's very

Marie Vigouroux:

upset about that, that he's finding himself the main

Marie Vigouroux:

character in this particular circumstance without his

Marie Vigouroux:

consent, right? Even though the show is called Hannibal, really

Marie Vigouroux:

what we're learning about right now is Will Graham.

Jeremy Greer:

And I think that's the thing that the show does,

Jeremy Greer:

that makes it work so well, is that Hannibal is definitely a

Jeremy Greer:

main character. But you would assume that the show named

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal would have Hannibal like he would be the main dude

Jeremy Greer:

every single week. And it's actually not, it's a much more

Jeremy Greer:

of a story about Will Graham specifically, Will Graham's

Jeremy Greer:

relationship with Hannibal. And I find that like, because you

Jeremy Greer:

could never sell a show named Will Graham like, nobody would

Jeremy Greer:

know what you were doing. But to have the like go into this

Jeremy Greer:

amount of depth of Will's mind and and have it like, have it

Jeremy Greer:

almost reflected by Hannibal, is just a crazy way to approach the

Jeremy Greer:

story. And I'm I think it's one thing that gets me so excited

Jeremy Greer:

about it is it's such a fresh take on all of the Hannibal

Jeremy Greer:

lore.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, I think that the word reflected is

Marie Vigouroux:

really, really well chosen here, because we're going to see that

Marie Vigouroux:

literally in the next scene. But before we move on, like will

Marie Vigouroux:

does say like you won't like me when I'm psychoanalyzed, which,

Marie Vigouroux:

again, felt very, which, obviously, like, is a Hulk

Marie Vigouroux:

reference, you won't like me when I'm angry, but like, felt

Marie Vigouroux:

very charged and ominous, again. Like, what is this about this

Marie Vigouroux:

guy that, like, he doesn't want people to get to know him at

Marie Vigouroux:

all. Like, is it only about the autism, or is it about other

Marie Vigouroux:

stuff too.

Jeremy Greer:

Will leaves in a huff, and Jack warns Hannibal,

Jeremy Greer:

like, Hey, you probably shouldn't poke will. And

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal says that will has something special. He has pure

Jeremy Greer:

empathy, and he believes that he can help. And he calls Will,

Jeremy Greer:

good Will, I can help good Will find your killer, and I it's

Jeremy Greer:

very fascinating to me that he calls him good Will here. Just

Jeremy Greer:

there's obviously, like Goodwill is a phrase, and obviously it's

Jeremy Greer:

adding good as an adjective to Will's name, like giving him, we

Jeremy Greer:

haven't actually seen, will be good. And it's almost like

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal is using it sarcastically in the same way

Jeremy Greer:

that Will, like, kind of rebuffed the idea of an evil,

Jeremy Greer:

evil genius name as hammy. Here's Hannibal using good as an

Jeremy Greer:

adjective, also kind of hammy, but using it sarcastically. And

Jeremy Greer:

I find that just was one of those things that, like,

Jeremy Greer:

sometimes I say, like, I don't know if that was intentional. It

Jeremy Greer:

was probably 100% intentional. That's probably absolutely doing

Jeremy Greer:

stuff.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, it seems like it was, because

Marie Vigouroux:

later, I think he says something about Uncle Jack, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Yes.

Marie Vigouroux:

Which, yeah, again, is like a way to show

Marie Vigouroux:

that he knows exactly who this person like, what this person is

Marie Vigouroux:

about. Probably much more than I do at this point in the series.

Jeremy Greer:

We cut from this directly into several crows

Jeremy Greer:

eating a corpse mounted on deer antlers. Our ERT crew there,

Jeremy Greer:

Beverly and the boys, as I'm going to call him from now on, I

Jeremy Greer:

just admitted that, and I love it, because I don't remember the

Jeremy Greer:

other two's name. Beverly, the boys are there, and the boys are

Jeremy Greer:

saying that the papers are now calling this killer the

Jeremy Greer:

Minnesota shrike, because the shrike is a bird that, like,

Jeremy Greer:

actually, like, punctures its kills onto sticks and branches

Jeremy Greer:

and stuff. And Will, it's kind of fascinating to watch Will at

Jeremy Greer:

this crime scene because he's extremely bothered by it. And

Jeremy Greer:

we've seen him see violence and not necessarily be affected

Jeremy Greer:

about it. We've seen him do violence, like in the imagine -

Jeremy Greer:

his imagination. But here he's almost like, it's almost like

Jeremy Greer:

his senses are confused, and it's and it's a fascinating

Jeremy Greer:

progression as we go through the scene, as will realizes, like,

Jeremy Greer:

this is a presentation, like the killer wanted us to see this. He

Jeremy Greer:

doesn't respect this woman, and he starts to realize this is not

Jeremy Greer:

the same killer. There's no he calls this field Kabuki, which

Jeremy Greer:

is an incredible line, incredible phrasing. Field

Jeremy Greer:

Kabuki is amazing. In hindsight, we should have just named the

Jeremy Greer:

podcast field Kabuki. I didn't even think about it. There's

Jeremy Greer:

still time. We haven't done anything yet. We'll just - We'll

Jeremy Greer:

just go edit it all of the Rude Eats out.

Marie Vigouroux:

Imagine all you hear is like, and this is -

Together:

Field Kabuki.

Jeremy Greer:

And he basically comes to the conclusion that

Jeremy Greer:

this is not the same killer. And we learn that this body is

Jeremy Greer:

missing the lungs. I think it's at this point we start flashing

Jeremy Greer:

back to, we start cutting to not flashing back, but cutting to

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal in his kitchen. Nothing sexier than a competent man,

Jeremy Greer:

everybody just so firmly preparing human lungs for

Jeremy Greer:

consumption. Just it's incredible.

Marie Vigouroux:

I should not find it hot to watch somebody

Marie Vigouroux:

prepare human lungs -

Jeremy Greer:

You shouldn't.

Marie Vigouroux:

- for dinner.

Jeremy Greer:

You shouldn't.

Marie Vigouroux:

I shouldn't.

Jeremy Greer:

That's a question here on the FBI agent exam.

Marie Vigouroux:

I would fail, apparently. Because, like, it's

Marie Vigouroux:

just - I see what people say now about how much they love the

Marie Vigouroux:

character Hannibal. And I'm like, Oh no, I'm one of those!

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it's gonna be hard to resist. I feel like

Marie Vigouroux:

I feel like maybe he has different ways of

Marie Vigouroux:

people who got into Sherlock, who were like, kind of either

Marie Vigouroux:

romanticize, either romantically or just, like, ideally, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

wanted to, wanted, like, really got into that TV, the BBC of

Marie Vigouroux:

Sherlock, like, fell even harder for Hannibal in the show,

Marie Vigouroux:

because it's like that times 1000 because he's he's so just

Marie Vigouroux:

impeccable, and he's so competent, and he's so confident

Marie Vigouroux:

that it's really, really hard to resist him. And I mentioned that

Marie Vigouroux:

earlier, of like, one of the character traits of Hannibal is

Marie Vigouroux:

getting him is he gets you on his side. And we're gonna see

Marie Vigouroux:

that throughout this. And there's always, like, a thread

Marie Vigouroux:

of terror as characters meet Hannibal, and they're charmed by

Marie Vigouroux:

him, because, of course, he's a very charming man, like, he's a

Marie Vigouroux:

professional. He's helping out the FBI, like we they don't

Marie Vigouroux:

know. So it's terrifying when it when you realize, like, Ah..

Marie Vigouroux:

like, charming people, right? Different like, obviously,

Marie Vigouroux:

because he's a psychiatrist too. He's able to tell, like, who

Marie Vigouroux:

needs, who needs, quote, unquote, what. And I think that

Marie Vigouroux:

he got me with competence, like, immediately I was like, oh,

Marie Vigouroux:

okay, all right, okay, I'm in

Jeremy Greer:

All the way in.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah!

Jeremy Greer:

Jack also starts, excuse me, not Jack, Will starts

Jeremy Greer:

to have these realizations of what the actual killer is. He

Jeremy Greer:

starts realizing that the killer has a daughter because of the

Jeremy Greer:

way that he's like, respecting these women, and as he's like,

Jeremy Greer:

having these realizations, it's overwhelming him. And he begins

Jeremy Greer:

to leave, and he's saying all of this out loud so that everybody

Jeremy Greer:

can hear. Beverly and the boys are just like, not this again.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, oh no.

Jeremy Greer:

Jack is like, Well, what about the copycat

Jeremy Greer:

killer? And Will says kind of dismissively, asked Dr Lecter,

Jeremy Greer:

you seem very impressed with his opinion, and already some, like

Jeremy Greer:

a little bit of maybe professional jealousy happening?

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

Like I was Jack's special child. And now, now

Jeremy Greer:

there's another special child.

Marie Vigouroux:

Which is funny, because earlier in the episode,

Marie Vigouroux:

he was like, go see Alana Bloom. She does the same thing that I

Marie Vigouroux:

do no worries, like he was directing him towards somebody

Marie Vigouroux:

else. But here there's like, a little like, go see Dr Lecter,

Marie Vigouroux:

then, you know?

Jeremy Greer:

Exactly, professional jealousy. And also,

Jeremy Greer:

like, a little bit of like, kickback, just against him being

Jeremy Greer:

profiled against his will, right? Like,also, like that

Jeremy Greer:

whole profiling thing we didn't mention, but just another

Jeremy Greer:

example of Jack. Another example of Jack using people as tools

Jeremy Greer:

and not respecting them as humans. Because, like, the idea

Jeremy Greer:

of, like, your co worker profiling you professionally is

Jeremy Greer:

wild. Like, that's horrifying, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, I feel like that's not ethical with

Marie Vigouroux:

them, even within the FBI.

Jeremy Greer:

I would not think so at all.

Marie Vigouroux:

Listen, like, I'm very much of the opinion

Marie Vigouroux:

that like ACAB, but, you know, I feel like there's still, like, a

Marie Vigouroux:

professional code of ethics that one should be following.

Jeremy Greer:

Sure.That night at the hotel Jack has, I think I'm

Jeremy Greer:

willing to say this his first vision of the stag. This is a,

Jeremy Greer:

this is a, it's a very threatening looking deer. I

Jeremy Greer:

guess it seems diminishing to call it just a deer, because the

Jeremy Greer:

thing is like black in this full on spread of antlers. It's very

Jeremy Greer:

terrifying. It looks like it's like ramping up to charge Jack,

Jeremy Greer:

and we only see it for a little while. But it does. It does this

Jeremy Greer:

vision does consume him for a moment in the shower.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, see, it's interesting that you say we, we

Marie Vigouroux:

get his first vision of the stag, because, like, I know that

Marie Vigouroux:

there are, there isn't another one in this or I don't think

Marie Vigouroux:

that there is another one in this episode, so I'm assuming

Marie Vigouroux:

that there's going to be more later. But I thought that it was

Marie Vigouroux:

really interesting that, like, the stag was used, like, as a,

Marie Vigouroux:

as a visual here, right? Of course, it was 2013 so like,

Marie Vigouroux:

antlers were, like a big thing, like, within, uh, pop culture

Marie Vigouroux:

and whatnot. So, like, there were antlers everywhere, just

Marie Vigouroux:

like, mustaches and whatnot. It was just that time.

Jeremy Greer:

Wait, antlers were big in 2013 did I miss this? I

Jeremy Greer:

don't. Why were they what was happening? Were people wearing

Jeremy Greer:

antlers.

Marie Vigouroux:

No but it was like, You know that thing where,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, there were, there was, like, a lot of like flannel with

Marie Vigouroux:

like antlers, like, it was like the aesthetic of the time.

Jeremy Greer:

I did not know this. I grew up so country,

Jeremy Greer:

like, all of my family had like deer heads on the wall with like

Jeremy Greer:

antler spreads from deer that they killed and things. So like,

Jeremy Greer:

I like the idea of that being an esthetic in 2013 is wild to me.

Jeremy Greer:

I never saw that, and that's hilarious.

Marie Vigouroux:

But to be fair, it wasn't actual antlers. It was

Marie Vigouroux:

like drawings of antlers that people would put up in their

Marie Vigouroux:

homes. Now keep in mind that I also grew up with, like, actual

Marie Vigouroux:

deer heads, like and antlers in my grandparents home. So, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm very aware of that, and it was very weird in, like, around,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, 2010 to 2013 to see all of these things. But it was a

Marie Vigouroux:

thing, I promise you.

Jeremy Greer:

That is wild. I'm so into it.

Marie Vigouroux:

But I so I thought that it was weird

Marie Vigouroux:

because, like, so the stag, like, traditionally, visually,

Marie Vigouroux:

kind of represents, like, masculinity, paternity and,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, the patriarchy. And so I thought that it was interesting

Marie Vigouroux:

for this particular story to have, like the victims hoisted

Marie Vigouroux:

up on this symbol. So now I'm like, oh my god, does it become

Marie Vigouroux:

like something else later? So now I'm very intrigued.

Jeremy Greer:

I do. I want to mention that joke that Autumn

Jeremy Greer:

made as we're watching this, because obviously, like, we've

Jeremy Greer:

seen this a bunch before, so like, she's in the background,

Jeremy Greer:

like play on her phone and doing all that kind of stuff, and also

Jeremy Greer:

watching the show. And when this scene happened, she just looked

Jeremy Greer:

over and she goes, Man, Will's Patronus is so much better than

Jeremy Greer:

Harry's. And I just - just thought that was the funniest

Jeremy Greer:

thing of like, this dude does look a lot cooler than Harry's

Jeremy Greer:

Patronus. I will say that.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

Jeremy Greer:

The next morning, Hannibal knocks on Will's door.

Jeremy Greer:

They're going to be working together today. Jack is a court

Jeremy Greer:

like in court, so it's just going to be the two of them. And

Jeremy Greer:

he is, once again, this fastidiousness. He's very

Jeremy Greer:

careful with what he puts in his food, or he puts in his body, as

Jeremy Greer:

he says, so he's brought his own breakfast. He's broughta protein

Jeremy Greer:

scramble. I - every time you see Hannibal eat with another person

Jeremy Greer:

and he's offering them food, it is so fraught. You just know

Jeremy Greer:

that he is like, is he feeding people? Does it? Is it

Jeremy Greer:

happening? And there's, like, all these little moments that

Jeremy Greer:

make you, like, his Jack, like, grabs a piece of sausage, and

Jeremy Greer:

he's like, that's really good. Like, it's like, a genuine

Jeremy Greer:

moment of like, wow, this is good sausage kind of thing.

Jeremy Greer:

And every single time I'm gonna It's so stressful, it never gets

Jeremy Greer:

easier to watch. Like, you just, oh no, yeah, every single time

Jeremy Greer:

this happens. And then this conversation around them, where,

Jeremy Greer:

obviously, there's from Will's perspective, there's a there's a

Jeremy Greer:

there's a discord between the two of them. Hannibal is very

Jeremy Greer:

much, I feel like he's he's trying here. He's, like, wants

Jeremy Greer:

to -

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah because he loves him.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, absolutely.

Marie Vigouroux:

There you go. Already.

Jeremy Greer:

He wants to possess him. He wants to possess

Jeremy Greer:

him. He wants to, like, own this, this, this weird brain

Jeremy Greer:

that he is envisioning,and it's, you know, this conversation back

Jeremy Greer:

and forth where, and Hannibal even says, like, we, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

we can socialize like adults, God forbid we come friends. And

Jeremy Greer:

Will says, kind of passionately, I don't find you that

Jeremy Greer:

interesting. And Hannibal just looks at him and says, You will

Jeremy Greer:

like, Oh, my God.

Marie Vigouroux:

I was like, Oh, okay. And it's also interesting,

Marie Vigouroux:

because it makes me wonder, like, because, again, you talk

Marie Vigouroux:

about Hannibal as being very charming, and like, he charmed

Marie Vigouroux:

me with his competence. He charmed you know, Jack with like

Marie Vigouroux:

his knowledge. But he has trouble charming Will, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

And so it's this idea of like Will might be the person that he

Marie Vigouroux:

can't fully control or manipulate, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Exactly.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, man.

Jeremy Greer:

Not saying a whole lot, because it's really

Jeremy Greer:

difficult,

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh no! But I know that at least I'm on the

Marie Vigouroux:

right path. So that's good. That's good.

Jeremy Greer:

He begins to have this conversation about how the

Jeremy Greer:

fact them are very similar, and there's a level of sarcasm

Jeremy Greer:

guarding through this where, because he says, Do you have any

Jeremy Greer:

problems Will? And Jack says, No, it's like, of course, you're

Jeremy Greer:

just like me. Neither one of us have any problems, which is like

Jeremy Greer:

a really interesting line to ingratiate yourself with

Jeremy Greer:

someone. Then he begins to talk about Jack, and says that Jack

Jeremy Greer:

sees will is fine China and and Will says, What would you see me

Jeremy Greer:

as and animal says, I see you as the Mongoose under the house, as

Jeremy Greer:

the snake slither by. And I, I never really picked up on this

Jeremy Greer:

line before, as other, just like kind of flowery dialog, but it

Jeremy Greer:

really stuck out to me this time, and I did some research,

Jeremy Greer:

and I can't talk about anything at all. I will say the the

Jeremy Greer:

Mongoose is representative of stuff. The snakes are

Jeremy Greer:

representative of stuff. The house that the Mongoose is under

Jeremy Greer:

is representative of stuff. You can kind of make this very tight

Jeremy Greer:

sentence a a metaphor, I guess, maybe for the entire series, and

Jeremy Greer:

talking about it in detail the way that it deserves to be

Jeremy Greer:

talked about. It's something I'm going to keep coming back to. I

Jeremy Greer:

think as we get farther into the series, it will, like, spoil,

Jeremy Greer:

like, twists that are happening. It's how good this line is.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, it's so fucking good. I'm so like -

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh no.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it's that good. Where I'm like, I mean, I

Jeremy Greer:

literally can't talk about it.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh my god. Well, because that's the thing,

Marie Vigouroux:

because at first, my first week, because you asked me about that,

Marie Vigouroux:

you're like, What do you think about that line? Like, Well, I'm

Marie Vigouroux:

not sure, because I didn't even know what a mongoose was like,

Marie Vigouroux:

literally, until yesterday, when I looked it up and it's

Marie Vigouroux:

something that, like, attacks snake. That's like, known for

Marie Vigouroux:

attacking snake, particularly venomous snakes. And so I was

Marie Vigouroux:

like, okay, but like, so is he talking? Is he saying that like

Marie Vigouroux:

he is the house and like he wants to use Will as a

Marie Vigouroux:

protection against this, the snakes, or is he the snake? You

Marie Vigouroux:

know that, like, is attacking the house, and so I'm like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

don't know. I don't know what this means.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm literally the zipped up mouth emoji right now.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm just -

Marie Vigouroux:

Of course, of course. I don't expect anything

Marie Vigouroux:

else. I just wanted to say, like, what I thought.

Jeremy Greer:

Your thoughts are great. They're wonderful.

Marie Vigouroux:

Thank you so much.

Jeremy Greer:

The last thing I would say about the Mongoose,

Jeremy Greer:

and this is just kind of off topic completely. I've been

Jeremy Greer:

married to my wife for 20 years now, and I still learn something

Jeremy Greer:

new about her. Apparently, there's a cartoon called Ricky

Jeremy Greer:

Tiki Tavi that is about an animated mongoose defending the

Jeremy Greer:

home against two King Cobras. And it's narrated by Orson

Marie Vigouroux:

What?! That's wild!

Marie Vigouroux:

Welles.

Jeremy Greer:

I looked up that - she was like, we know Ricky

Jeremy Greer:

ticky Tavi, right? Like, because we were talking about mongoose

Jeremy Greer:

or mongeese, I guess we're talking about mongooses. I don't

Jeremy Greer:

we were talking about the line. And she's like, well, you know

Jeremy Greer:

Ricky ticky Tavi. And I'm like, What did you just say?

Marie Vigouroux:

What are those sounds that just came out of

Marie Vigouroux:

your mouth?

Jeremy Greer:

We looked at the trailer and like, it's, I guess

Jeremy Greer:

it's from the 70s, maybe early 80s, and it looks wild, like it

Jeremy Greer:

looks intense, especially for a young audience. Even I was like,

Jeremy Greer:

this is kind of spooky with these King Cobras that want to

Jeremy Greer:

kill everybody in this building anyway, we'll move on. They are

Jeremy Greer:

headed to a construction site. Hannibal is very interested in,

Jeremy Greer:

like, why they're coming here. And Jack explains, like, we

Jeremy Greer:

found some metal shavings. He goes into a little bit more

Jeremy Greer:

detail that we don't really care about. But like, they have,

Jeremy Greer:

they've narrowed it down to specific sites that use this

Jeremy Greer:

specific type of metal shavings that they can so it's not just

Jeremy Greer:

like, 300 construction sites that they're seeing all over the

Jeremy Greer:

state of Minnesota.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah. It's like, hand wave, hand wave, hand

Marie Vigouroux:

wave. Like this is why we're going to this particular one.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like this is not actually the story that we care about kind of

Marie Vigouroux:

thing, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Exactly.

Marie Vigouroux:

Which I'm totally fine with. I don't need,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, an actual procedural here. But one thing that I do find

Marie Vigouroux:

really interesting is this line about how, you know, he wants a

Marie Vigouroux:

peek behind the curtain, right? How Hannibal wants that, and I'm

Marie Vigouroux:

like, so he's curious about, like, how the FBI conducts this

Marie Vigouroux:

business when they're not kicking in doors kind of thing.

Marie Vigouroux:

And so it's like, Oh, okay. So this is useful for him, too, to

Marie Vigouroux:

like, learn more about, like, how not to get caught.

Jeremy Greer:

Exactly, yes, exactly. They arrive at the

Jeremy Greer:

construction office, they immediately begin to, like, go

Jeremy Greer:

through the files. There's a little bit of a humor scene

Jeremy Greer:

where the, I guess the receptionist, or the only woman

Jeremy Greer:

that's in this construction trailer is on the phone with

Jeremy Greer:

somebody, like they're going through all the files. Yes, they

Jeremy Greer:

can do that. No, I can't tell them to stop. They're putting

Jeremy Greer:

stuff in boxes like just kind of freaking out, because obviously

Jeremy Greer:

the FBI is coming here, and then Will finds a file on Garrett

Jeremy Greer:

Jacob Hobbs, and he begins to ask for more info. Does, does,

Jeremy Greer:

you know? Does he have a daughter? Does he you know all

Jeremy Greer:

this stuff? And Hannibal, you can tell, is, like, really

Jeremy Greer:

curious. He begins to look over the show, over will shoulder.

Jeremy Greer:

He's like, What? What called your attention? He's like, Well,

Jeremy Greer:

he didn't leave a forwarding address. When he quit, everybody

Jeremy Greer:

else left a forwarding address. And it's just a small detail

Jeremy Greer:

that will picks up on. And Hannibal is like, again, like,

Jeremy Greer:

that kind of conversation that you just mentioned, of like,

Jeremy Greer:

he's learning how the FBI does his thing. Like he's like, oh,

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, is it the FBI, or is it just Will Graham?

Marie Vigouroux:

okay -

Marie Vigouroux:

The peak behind the curtain about, oh, my God, oh, he's so

Marie Vigouroux:

creepy.

Jeremy Greer:

And this is why it's so I think important to

Jeremy Greer:

talk about Quantico as a character, because Will's

Jeremy Greer:

ability to see this is the reason they have him in a

Jeremy Greer:

teaching role, to be able to try to train other FBI agents to

Jeremy Greer:

catch stuff like this. That's something that comes naturally

Jeremy Greer:

to him. Can that be reproduced with other agents? And can that

Jeremy Greer:

help us catch more serial killers?

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

And again, yeah. I'm also with you on ACAB, but

Jeremy Greer:

like, there's an aspect of like FBI catching serial killers that

Jeremy Greer:

I find fascinating, just in general.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, listen, right? Like, I think that there

Marie Vigouroux:

are certain roles for which, like, police is necessary, yes,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? You know, stopping drunk drivers -

Jeremy Greer:

Pulling over Justin Timberlake.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, absolutely. I was gonna say

Marie Vigouroux:

very, like, on trend kind of topic to talk about, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

stopping serial killers. Like, I think we can all agree on that

Marie Vigouroux:

my issue lies somewhere else.

Jeremy Greer:

Of course, yeah, and we don't have to get into

Jeremy Greer:

the politics of that if you want us to, then just follow us on

Jeremy Greer:

Twitter.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, I know I talk a lot about that on

Jeremy Greer:

They begin to take boxes of files to Will's car and

Jeremy Greer:

there.

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal, very much on purpose, spills some causing Will and the

Jeremy Greer:

lady that's helping them to, kind of like, scramble around

Jeremy Greer:

and pick some stuff up. And then Hannibal goes inside and calls

Jeremy Greer:

Garrett Jacob Hobbs. And we see Garrett Jacob Hobbs. We didn't

Jeremy Greer:

actually mention this, as it happened while they were looking

Jeremy Greer:

at the body in the woods from the copycat, we saw flashes of

Jeremy Greer:

you know a character that we're going to come to know as

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail, getting out of their car and like, waving to her

Jeremy Greer:

father, who was Garrett Jacob Hobbs. And now we're seeing

Jeremy Greer:

those two characters in, like, a very suburban setting. They're

Jeremy Greer:

in a kitchen preparing dinner, or, guess not, dinner, lunch or

Jeremy Greer:

something. They're all they're all hanging out in the kitchen.

Jeremy Greer:

I don't know what they're doing.

Marie Vigouroux:

Breakfast, II think? I saw some pancakes.

Jeremy Greer:

Sure. Yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

I was very excited about that. I was hungry

Marie Vigouroux:

when I watched this.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm gonna warn you, you probably need a snack

Jeremy Greer:

before watching Hannibal, because it's gonna make you it's

Jeremy Greer:

gonna make you crave stuff that you don't necessarily want to

Jeremy Greer:

crave, and you're gonna have to sit with that.

Marie Vigouroux:

I was really worried about, like, the the

Marie Vigouroux:

warnings that that I had received about it being gory,

Marie Vigouroux:

and I was like, Maybe I shouldn't, like, watch this with

Marie Vigouroux:

a full stomach, but no, I think next time I'll have a snack

Marie Vigouroux:

before.

Jeremy Greer:

So Hannibal calls. Abigail answers, passes the

Jeremy Greer:

phone to dad, Garrett, and Hannibal simply says, this is a

Jeremy Greer:

courtesy call. Listen very carefully. We don't know each

Jeremy Greer:

other. We may never meet. They know. And this is, this is

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal showing us the agent of chaos that he is. And one of the

Jeremy Greer:

things that makes Hannibal a great character is that he not

Jeremy Greer:

only can get people onto his side, but as you mentioned

Jeremy Greer:

earlier, using his like psychiatric mind to control and

Jeremy Greer:

manipulate Will. That's what he does to everybody. It's not just

Jeremy Greer:

Will, like he now he is setting this in motion just to see what

Jeremy Greer:

happens. He doesn't know that Garrett is the killer, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Like, they don't know that for certain, but on the off chance

Jeremy Greer:

that it is, of course, it happens, he's gonna set this,

Jeremy Greer:

like bomb off in this dude's brain, just to see what happens.

Jeremy Greer:

Who cares about the consequences? And it's so good.

Jeremy Greer:

I love this so much.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, my God. Because see, when I watched it,

Marie Vigouroux:

I had no real idea of what the motivation was behind it, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, this was a complete mystery to me. I was like, Why

Marie Vigouroux:

does does he? Does he care? And if so, why? And I sort of

Marie Vigouroux:

assumed that, like, okay, so they have to get like, like, on

Marie Vigouroux:

a more critical side, like, they have to get Hobbs to attack his

Marie Vigouroux:

family. But I just again, I think, like, this says something

Marie Vigouroux:

about Hannibal that I, I, I wasn't expecting, because I saw

Marie Vigouroux:

it more as, like, is it projection? Is it empathy? Is it

Marie Vigouroux:

professional courtesy? But you're telling me it's just,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, his chaos Gremlin?

Jeremy Greer:

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And there may be,

Jeremy Greer:

there may be a little bit of, like, professional courtesy

Jeremy Greer:

involved, right? Because I feel like Hannibal is a character

Jeremy Greer:

that wants more serial killers in the world.

Marie Vigouroux:

Right. So, like, from one serial killer to

Marie Vigouroux:

another, like they know kind of thing.

Jeremy Greer:

But I think at its core, I think if they put him

Jeremy Greer:

side by side, I would believe that he just wants to see what

Jeremy Greer:

happens in some cases, like, he just likes to light the fuse and

Jeremy Greer:

watch the toys explode, right? And we'll see more of this

Marie Vigouroux:

Which is interesting for somebody who,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, craves control for so many things, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Exactly.

Marie Vigouroux:

Such a contradiction.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, imagine very carefully, like, imagine a child

Jeremy Greer:

very carefully organizing its toys in a battle scene and then

Jeremy Greer:

literally exploding it with firecrackers. And that's, that's

Jeremy Greer:

a good analogy of what like, how Hannibal sees people, I think,

Jeremy Greer:

are just these like pieces and toys that he can, he can align

Jeremy Greer:

and then set off to create these explosions. And it's gonna be

Jeremy Greer:

fascinating.

Marie Vigouroux:

Interesting that you're using, like a kids

Marie Vigouroux:

metaphor also to talk about this, when we just had a kids

Marie Vigouroux:

metaphor about the Willy Wonka golden ticket? Wow.

Jeremy Greer:

It's because I'm a serial killer.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, there you go. We should have known. We

Marie Vigouroux:

should have known. So

Jeremy Greer:

this, he says they know, and we cut to black. It's

Jeremy Greer:

wild. Imagine seeing like a commercial for detergent after

Jeremy Greer:

this. Watching stuff with commercials is fascinating to me

Jeremy Greer:

nowadays, because it never happens, and I'm just like, what

Jeremy Greer:

were they playing? Was Office Depot advertising like a new

Jeremy Greer:

printer, like what was going on?

Marie Vigouroux:

Imagine!

Jeremy Greer:

But we cut to will who was covered in blood, and

Jeremy Greer:

right away we hear this electronic thumbing, and his

Jeremy Greer:

sweep hand is working, and it backs him all the way into his

Jeremy Greer:

car, where he's sitting in the car with Hannibal as they pull

Jeremy Greer:

up to Garrett Jacobs hots house, and now he's fully clean. He's

Jeremy Greer:

not covered in blood. So we, I think this is a really good way

Jeremy Greer:

just to, like to put so much tension in a situation where we

Jeremy Greer:

just don't know what's about to happen, but we know it is super,

Jeremy Greer:

super bad.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh yeah. I mean, when I watched this, I was

Marie Vigouroux:

like, Oh no, because I kind of love this idea of, like, you

Marie Vigouroux:

know how it's going to end, but you have no idea how they're

Marie Vigouroux:

gonna get there. Like, I find that just as interesting as,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, not knowing how it's going to end, if not more, actually.

Jeremy Greer:

Absolutely, yeah, it's a -

Marie Vigouroux:

I love that.

Jeremy Greer:

Very, very, very interesting narrative device to

Jeremy Greer:

So as they get out of the car, Garrett's wife, who I don't

Jeremy Greer:

use.

Jeremy Greer:

think is actually named anywhere, anywhere like, runs

Jeremy Greer:

out of the door, she is - her neck is bleeding. Her neck is

Jeremy Greer:

wide open. Will rushes over, and he's trying to, like, put up his

Jeremy Greer:

hands over her neck to prevent the bleeding. And she's just -

Jeremy Greer:

blood is pouring out of her, and she dies, literally, in Will's

Jeremy Greer:

arms

Marie Vigouroux:

She is like, so white, she has no more blood,

Marie Vigouroux:

like in her head, like there's, there's nothing he can do to

Marie Vigouroux:

save her.

Jeremy Greer:

Will draws his gun. Will, why do you have a

Jeremy Greer:

gun? You're the last person in the world who should ahve a gun.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, right??

Jeremy Greer:

This is, this is one of those TV show things. I

Jeremy Greer:

think we're just like, they have a gun. It's really wild -

Marie Vigouroux:

And he kicks down the door, which I found was

Marie Vigouroux:

an interesting call back to, like, you know the when they're

Marie Vigouroux:

not kicking down doors earlier.

Jeremy Greer:

Absolutely, it's also like him kicking down the

Jeremy Greer:

door of the house and the cold open as the serial killer,

Jeremy Greer:

right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

I was actually, it's interesting that you bring

Jeremy Greer:

that up, because I was, I thought in my brain when he

Jeremy Greer:

thought in my brain, I need to, I need to distinguish -

Marie Vigouroux:

Where else do you think Jeremy?

Jeremy Greer:

Jesus Christ. I was thinking when I saw this,

Jeremy Greer:

like, how very TV tropy it was, where you because he's because

Jeremy Greer:

he's not, like a buff dude, like they're not presenting him, is

Jeremy Greer:

that and so him, for him to, like, break a door down. I

Jeremy Greer:

thought was, but it's interesting that you compared it

Jeremy Greer:

to the when they're not breaking the doors down. And also, the

Jeremy Greer:

thing that's interesting, good stuff. As he arrives in the

Jeremy Greer:

kitchen, Garrett is holding a knife to Abigail's throat, and

Jeremy Greer:

he doesn't hesitate for very long. He just slits her throat,

Jeremy Greer:

and then Will just opens fire, literally emptying his entire

Jeremy Greer:

clip into Garrett Jacob Hobbs. Will rushes over to save

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail, and he looks over and he locks eyes with Garrett, and

Jeremy Greer:

Garrett says, I see you, which is terrifying. And honestly,

Jeremy Greer:

don't really know what it means, don't I don't have, I don't have

Jeremy Greer:

a good analysis for this whatsoever. I was very curious

Jeremy Greer:

how you took this.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, so I was wondering, because again, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm not entirely sure about how Will understands his, quote,

Marie Vigouroux:

unquote, like power of imagination, right? And so it

Marie Vigouroux:

again, with this idea of, like, fear being his main motivator.

Marie Vigouroux:

Is he now afraid that, like, he's able to imagine how killers

Marie Vigouroux:

operate, because deep down, he is also a killer, or he has the

Marie Vigouroux:

potential to become a killer himself. And so, like that idea,

Marie Vigouroux:

because we saw that, quote, unquote, like, professional

Marie Vigouroux:

courtesy between Hannibal and Hobbs. Like, is this what's

Marie Vigouroux:

happening here, that, like, Hobbs is seeing him, and it's

Marie Vigouroux:

like, I see you. I know who you are. I know what you are. You

Marie Vigouroux:

know.

Jeremy Greer:

It's, I mean, just, and it's, it shakes will

Jeremy Greer:

to his core, like he's, he's already shaking, and you could

Jeremy Greer:

tell like he's probably going into shock, like he is, he is,

Jeremy Greer:

he is not. This is not his normal thing. And when he hears

Jeremy Greer:

this like he's even like, he almost stops helping Abigail

Jeremy Greer:

right, like he becomes so overwhelmed with it. And this is

Jeremy Greer:

when Hannibal takes over, and just like wraps his his enormous

Jeremy Greer:

hand around Abigail's throat, and just like, calmly looks at

Jeremy Greer:

will, like, this is everyday material for him. And it's just,

Jeremy Greer:

I get talking about competency and confidence. Like, wow, man.

Marie Vigouroux:

This should not be hot again. I should not be

Marie Vigouroux:

like, Ooh, that was nice.

Jeremy Greer:

Yet another, yet another question on the FBI

Jeremy Greer:

agent exam, that we're both failing.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, absolutely. And like, that's the thing too.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like he he's literally, like, pushing Will's hands away, like

Marie Vigouroux:

he takes over from Will. And, like you said, Will is going

Marie Vigouroux:

into shock, like 100% like, the shock is setting in from having

Marie Vigouroux:

one killed somebody, and also, like, having been told that,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, I see you, but did that really happen? Or is he

Marie Vigouroux:

imagining it?

Jeremy Greer:

That's one of my favorite things about the show,

Jeremy Greer:

is that there's gonna be times where you just don't quite know

Jeremy Greer:

what is real and what is not, because Will can be such an

Jeremy Greer:

unreliable narrator as - because he has such a intense

Jeremy Greer:

imagination and such intense empathy. And the show has shown

Jeremy Greer:

us like him, using that specifically that opening scene

Jeremy Greer:

where he bounces from the imagination to real life as he

Jeremy Greer:

asks the transcript for the alarm panel, like, he can easily

Jeremy Greer:

move between those two when he wants to. And like, I feel like

Jeremy Greer:

this is one of those moments of, like, is he moving between those

Jeremy Greer:

two when he doesn't want to as well.

Marie Vigouroux:

When he's not aware? And honestly, like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

find that and so especially in this moment where he's so

Marie Vigouroux:

vulnerable, right? Like, because it seems like he's getting those

Marie Vigouroux:

unwanted I mean, I mean, I don't want to say visions, but almost

Marie Vigouroux:

like when he's very vulnerable, like when he's sleeping, when

Marie Vigouroux:

he's in the shower, when he's in the bathroom, and here, like he

Marie Vigouroux:

just killed someone, which I would assume would make you feel

Marie Vigouroux:

pretty emotionally vulnerable if you're not used to doing this

Marie Vigouroux:

every day.

Jeremy Greer:

Never bothers me.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, like, I don't actually quite know, but

Marie Vigouroux:

having, having, you know, having been in a, well, yes, in a very

Marie Vigouroux:

like, emotionally charged situation of violence, violence

Marie Vigouroux:

before, like, your memories and like what you're seeing aren't

Marie Vigouroux:

always like, I know that I could not quite trust - and that's not

Marie Vigouroux:

to say that like, you shouldn't trust victims like, that's not

Marie Vigouroux:

at all what I'm saying. But I know that for me, my brain

Marie Vigouroux:

covered up a lot of stuff that, like, I - that it knew that I

Marie Vigouroux:

couldn't, I shouldn't be remembering. And so I'm kind of

Marie Vigouroux:

wondering, like, like, like you mentioned about the unreliable

Marie Vigouroux:

narrator, like, Is this what's happening to Will? Like, under

Marie Vigouroux:

this intense moment of trauma? Like, is he just unable to

Marie Vigouroux:

control the difference between reality and imagination.

Jeremy Greer:

Absolutely. Yeah, and we're gonna, hey, we're

Jeremy Greer:

gonna be talking about that a lot. Mary, we're gonna be, we're

Jeremy Greer:

gonna be having this conversation quite a bit.

Marie Vigouroux:

Great.

Jeremy Greer:

Will watches almost like non blinking as they

Jeremy Greer:

load. Abigail, who's presumably alive at this point, into the

Jeremy Greer:

ambulance, and she's taken away. We cut to Jack, who is stalking

Jeremy Greer:

into Will's classroom to look for will, and finds Alana Bloom

Jeremy Greer:

there, who has taken over, and she is extremely mad, because

Jeremy Greer:

she realizes however they have communicated this, and it

Jeremy Greer:

doesn't matter, because TV, she understands what's happened to

Jeremy Greer:

Will, and she blames him, like you told you, said he wouldn't

Jeremy Greer:

get too close. And like, this is the opposite of that, like, what

Jeremy Greer:

do you and lays into him a little bit, which is awesome of

Jeremy Greer:

her. I love that she's able to, like, challenge Jack, even

Jeremy Greer:

though he's a figure of authority.

Marie Vigouroux:

As she should really because, I mean, when you

Marie Vigouroux:

think about it, like, who was the agent on like, I'm like, who

Marie Vigouroux:

was actually, like, the agent in charge in that moment, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, it should have been, like, he should have said, if I can't

Marie Vigouroux:

make it today, you guys don't go out. We go tomorrow, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, this is, to me, like, a complete lack of of judgment on

Marie Vigouroux:

the part of Jack.

Jeremy Greer:

And it's, it's, it's something that got brought

Jeremy Greer:

up earlier too, in the car when Hannibal is asking Jack, like,

Jeremy Greer:

Excuse me, Hannibal is asking Will why they're at the

Jeremy Greer:

construction site, and he mentions, like, oh, it's

Jeremy Greer:

fascinating to learn more about the FBI. And he's like, Yeah,

Jeremy Greer:

you, you should, you should just come with us to knock on doors

Jeremy Greer:

sometimes, like, this was supposed to be just like a knock

Jeremy Greer:

on door situation. There was no idea that they were going to

Jeremy Greer:

fall into a serial killer, right? They were just gonna go

Jeremy Greer:

talk to somebody. And so, like, I feel like that's the excuse,

Jeremy Greer:

but you're absolutely right. Like, they this, this, this was

Jeremy Greer:

a terribly handled especially when you have basically two

Jeremy Greer:

civilians just doing FBI is work for them. Like, that's insane.

Marie Vigouroux:

Right? Yeah. Oh my god!

Jeremy Greer:

Skinner would never allow this to happen.

Marie Vigouroux:

Skinner, the Hunk would absolutely not be

Marie Vigouroux:

happy about this, and with reason.

Jeremy Greer:

We go from here into we watch Will, in slow mo,

Jeremy Greer:

walk through a hospital corridor and into Abigail's room, where

Jeremy Greer:

she's sleeping, obviously stabilized. And as he enters the

Jeremy Greer:

room, we realize that Hannibal is there holding her hand beside

Jeremy Greer:

the bed, and will just kind of takes this in, takes a moment,

Jeremy Greer:

and he goes to the other side of the bed and sits down, and as

Jeremy Greer:

they're both waiting for Abigail to wake up. This, you mentioned

Jeremy Greer:

this in your notes. This scene is, I think, filmed in such a

Jeremy Greer:

way, and is soundtrack in such a way to make you feel very scared

Jeremy Greer:

of this. And you don't like you really don't understand

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal's motivations. And again, the only thing we know

Jeremy Greer:

about Hannibal from, like, a pop culture perspective, right? It's

Jeremy Greer:

just like he's a cannibal. We know that like that they're not,

Jeremy Greer:

they're not going to not do that in this show. So we know that he

Jeremy Greer:

is a threat. We don't know how much of a threat, and we don't

Jeremy Greer:

know, like, what his relationship with Abigail is, or

Jeremy Greer:

what his intentions are, and we see what his relationship is

Jeremy Greer:

with Will, and it's really difficult to get a handle on,

Jeremy Greer:

like, why he's here, why he would care. This is something

Jeremy Greer:

that is going to be explored and talked about, and we're gonna,

Jeremy Greer:

we're going to get into the details of this, but right now,

Jeremy Greer:

it's such a shock seeing him here, and you feel threatened,

Jeremy Greer:

just like he field threatened when he like, offers, Will the

Jeremy Greer:

protein scramble or whatever the sausage, there's just an

Jeremy Greer:

undercutting. There's an undercurrent of terror and like,

Jeremy Greer:

fraughtness here.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's just so alarming. Like, everything about

Marie Vigouroux:

this is alarming because, like, why does this man care about

Marie Vigouroux:

this girl? Right? Like, he didn't, clearly, didn't really

Marie Vigouroux:

care all that much about her father. And yet, he went into

Marie Vigouroux:

the ambulance with her leaving Will, who was clearly in shock,

Marie Vigouroux:

and and now he's like, holding her hand in a hospital room.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, what is happening, you know? And I'm kind of again,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, I'm like, is this showing us one thing, like showing us a

Marie Vigouroux:

negative so that we can't see the positive, so that, like, are

Marie Vigouroux:

they doing to us what Hannibal did to will with, like, the fake

Marie Vigouroux:

out in the middle of the episode? Like, is this what's

Marie Vigouroux:

happening? Or does he actually care? Like, I don't know. I

Marie Vigouroux:

thought that this scene was the single most disturbing one in

Marie Vigouroux:

the whole episode.

Jeremy Greer:

It's - so a hospital scene is disturbing,

Jeremy Greer:

and Hannibal preparing human lungs for consumption is hot.

Marie Vigouroux:

It was hot.

Jeremy Greer:

I want to make sure I get the rating system for

Jeremy Greer:

Mary right on track right out the gate. So we gotta - is it

Jeremy Greer:

hot or not? Is a totally different thing in this

Jeremy Greer:

situation.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, my God.

Jeremy Greer:

I think you're right. You're right to be

Jeremy Greer:

disturbed by it. So, like, it's especially just what, what we

Jeremy Greer:

know about Hannibal, and even at this point, what we don't know

Jeremy Greer:

about Hannibal is scary. So just having him here is spooky. And

Jeremy Greer:

another thing that's kind of, trepidatious for me is Will's

Jeremy Greer:

acceptance, where he just walks in and he's like, he doesn't, he

Jeremy Greer:

doesn't cry an alarm, like he doesn't say, This man doesn't

Jeremy Greer:

belong here, because, in a way, like he doesn't belong here,

Jeremy Greer:

either he's not this child's guardian or parent, like both of

Jeremy Greer:

her parents are dead, and so he just sees it as, like, all

Jeremy Greer:

right, like we're both, we're both going to be here for this

Jeremy Greer:

child. And then the series turns into my two dads. So I hope

Jeremy Greer:

you're, hope you're ready for -

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, so Okay, so now I'm like, so I never

Marie Vigouroux:

really thought of Abigail staying on the show. I thought

Marie Vigouroux:

that they were like, maybe gonna hand wave her, like, but, but

Marie Vigouroux:

now, like, there's a couple of things that you've said, and I'm

Marie Vigouroux:

like, do we see more of Abigail on this show? Like, is this

Marie Vigouroux:

gonna become a thing?

Jeremy Greer:

I guess the fact that I just named her probably

Jeremy Greer:

tells you that she's gonna show up at least one more time.

Marie Vigouroux:

The fact that you know her name and remember

Marie Vigouroux:

her name, I guess.

Jeremy Greer:

That's a spoiler by itself. Oh, Jeremy, thinks

Jeremy Greer:

that this is important enough to remember. I'm probably she's

Jeremy Greer:

probably gonna come up again.

Marie Vigouroux:

Cannot remember Will or Jack's name, but

Marie Vigouroux:

Abigail, yes, going to assume that this is a bit more

Marie Vigouroux:

important than I originally thought, but that is so alarming

Marie Vigouroux:

to me. What are they gonna do to this child?

Jeremy Greer:

What is what is going to happen next? Is the

Jeremy Greer:

question. So, yeah, that's our, that's our coverage of the

Jeremy Greer:

episode. Do you have any final thoughts before we get into the

Jeremy Greer:

reviews, the ratings?

Unknown:

No, I mean this, this final thought is genuinely that,

Unknown:

like, I loved every second of watching this.

Jeremy Greer:

I think it's as part of our - we mentioned that

Jeremy Greer:

this entire podcast, the idea for it and the execution came

Jeremy Greer:

within 48 hours. So and I just want to mention how funny it is

Jeremy Greer:

that, like, we suggested this, and there was at no point where

Jeremy Greer:

I was like, well, we should only do this if you like the show.

Jeremy Greer:

Like I never said that, because I just knew that Mary would love

Jeremy Greer:

it so much. There was no question of it.

Marie Vigouroux:

It feels like you're only the only thing you

Marie Vigouroux:

were worried about is that I was gonna binge it.

Jeremy Greer:

I was a little worried, yeah, no, you can't do

Jeremy Greer:

this. We release this every two weeks. This is gonna be a

Jeremy Greer:

project.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah. You were like, well, you know, it's gonna

Marie Vigouroux:

be hard because, like, there's some pretty big cliffhangers.

Marie Vigouroux:

And I was like, I can control myself. Like, I'll be fine. That

Marie Vigouroux:

was the discussion, not whether or not I was gonna like the

Marie Vigouroux:

show.

Jeremy Greer:

I think returning to this just a reminder of how

Jeremy Greer:

well executed the show is on all levels. There's, there's hardly

Jeremy Greer:

any, any fat to trim on this. On this episode, everything is

Jeremy Greer:

very, very intentional and to the point and has us learned

Jeremy Greer:

something to the point where, like introducing characters,

Jeremy Greer:

like they don't even name some of these characters that we're

Jeremy Greer:

going to we're going to learn are reoccurring characters

Jeremy Greer:

throughout the show, like they do a really, really good job of

Jeremy Greer:

just laser sighting us into the stuff that's important, which is

Jeremy Greer:

mostly Hannibal and Will. And with that, we're going to jump

Jeremy Greer:

into our ratings.

Marie Vigouroux:

All right, so I would like to rate this episode,

Marie Vigouroux:

season one, episode, one aperitif with four stars,

Marie Vigouroux:

because with its mysterious, dark and bitter tones, its

Marie Vigouroux:

splash of bubbles and its unexpected hint of sweetness,

Marie Vigouroux:

this aperitif leaves me wanting more and is sure to set the tone

Marie Vigouroux:

for an unforgettable meal.

Jeremy Greer:

And I'm going to agree with you. I'm going to

Jeremy Greer:

give it four stars. I think it's a bold and surprisingly fruity

Jeremy Greer:

apparatus that is as craveable as it is delicious.

Marie Vigouroux:

It was, I mean, yes, it was definitely

Marie Vigouroux:

surprisingly fruity. I didn't expect that to come up so

Marie Vigouroux:

quickly, to be honest.

Jeremy Greer:

Who needs slow burn? You know what I'm saying?

Marie Vigouroux:

You covered a slow burn for like years, and

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm doing that right now, with Supernatural.

Jeremy Greer:

Finally. Finally, we don't have to wait 15

Jeremy Greer:

seasons. So thank you everybody for listening. We're obviously

Jeremy Greer:

recording this this very early, so we don't have all of our

Jeremy Greer:

social links and things. So I'll just point you to the Episode

Jeremy Greer:

notes for the show for links to all of our social medias. If you

Jeremy Greer:

want to support us, please consider leaving ratings and

Jeremy Greer:

reviews on Spotify and Apple podcast. But most importantly,

Jeremy Greer:

if you know anybody in the Hannibal fandom, or just

Jeremy Greer:

somebody who likes Hannibal, please, please just let them

Jeremy Greer:

know that the podcast exists. Organic growth is the only way

Jeremy Greer:

that podcasts really gain any kind of numbers or traction. So

Jeremy Greer:

we're relying on you, the listeners, to enjoy this enough

Jeremy Greer:

to tell your friends about it, tell your mom. Your mom probably

Jeremy Greer:

read these books teenagers. They were really big in the 80s, so

Jeremy Greer:

your parents probably knew all about this. We love moms on this

Jeremy Greer:

podcast, right? I'm assuming, Mary, that you love moms?

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, of course.

Jeremy Greer:

So please, please consider doing that,

Marie Vigouroux:

We want all the moms to listen to this.

Jeremy Greer:

Want every single mother.

Marie Vigouroux:

Every single mom.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, I'm gonna start advertising this on

Jeremy Greer:

Mothers Against Drunk Driving websites. That's gonna be the

Jeremy Greer:

that's our market. It's just moms.

Marie Vigouroux:

It is your mom's podcast, actually.

Jeremy Greer:

It is your mom's podcast. Tell everybody where

Jeremy Greer:

they can find you on the internet, Mary.

Marie Vigouroux:

So I can be found on Twitter as

Marie Vigouroux:

@maryturner_, I'm pretty sure you can also find my other

Marie Vigouroux:

podcast @carryingwayward and Jeremy, why don't you tell us

Marie Vigouroux:

where we can find you on the internet.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm on Twitter, that very active on Twitter, but

Jeremy Greer:

you can find me at JG Greer, and you can find all of my other

Jeremy Greer:

cast at creepybutnecessary.coolbutnecessary.cool,

Jeremy Greer:

including podcast about Merlin, Supernatural, X Files and a

Jeremy Greer:

whole other bunch of stuff in between.

Marie Vigouroux:

Thank you everybody for listening, and we

Marie Vigouroux:

wish you bon appetit.

Marie Vigouroux:

Cool, cool, cool. Oh, this is so cool.

Jeremy Greer:

This is fun. I love new stuff, yes.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, this was a lot of fun. Now I want to watch

Marie Vigouroux:

the second one.

Jeremy Greer:

Get after it. Do you usually, I know you watch

Jeremy Greer:

this twice? Do you usually watch like stuff twice? When you

Jeremy Greer:

record about it?

Marie Vigouroux:

It depends. So Supernatural, not really just

Marie Vigouroux:

because I know the episodes already, but with our flag means

Marie Vigouroux:

death, I was watching twice because they were all new

Marie Vigouroux:

episodes to me. So I think this one I'm gonna have to watch

Marie Vigouroux:

twice also because, like, if I look back at my original notes,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, I have no notes about, like, the killing scene at the

Marie Vigouroux:

end, except like, oh my god, that scene H's support the way

Marie Vigouroux:

he grabbed that girl's neck, plus W's shock. That's it.

Marie Vigouroux:

That's all I have.

Jeremy Greer:

That's so funny to me.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh yeah, there you go. So I think it's gonna be

Marie Vigouroux:

important for me to watch stuff TWICE, Like, once, just to,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, get to know the material, and then a second time, like, to

Marie Vigouroux:

actually take notes. And for, for next time I think what I'll

Marie Vigouroux:

do is that I'll also start, like, taking some or I can also,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, help you with the beat by beat. Because now that I see a

Marie Vigouroux:

little bit like, how you're doing it, I'm like, okay, all

Marie Vigouroux:

right, so I can take over some of that from you, so that it's a

Marie Vigouroux:

bit more even. Because I was like, oh my god, I'm making him

Marie Vigouroux:

do literally all of the talking.

Jeremy Greer:

I thought it was, I thought we, I thought we

Jeremy Greer:

breezed back and forth really easily. I thought that was

Jeremy Greer:

really smooth. There's only a couple of times where, like, one

Jeremy Greer:

of us didn't have a quite a thought prepared, and that's

Jeremy Greer:

easily taken care of and editing. So I'm not, I'm not

Jeremy Greer:

concerned about that at all.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay.

Jeremy Greer:

So, but I thought we did great, especially for,

Jeremy Greer:

like, again, having podcasted before, but never, like, about

Jeremy Greer:

something structural. So like this, I think we did really,

Jeremy Greer:

really good. So pat on the back, high five.

Marie Vigouroux:

I think we did really well. Yes, high five.

Jeremy Greer:

High five.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, considering that this, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

came to life, like, 24 hours ago.

Jeremy Greer:

I think that we did really well. We're gonna

Jeremy Greer:

have like, 14 episodes back before Jake is, like, ready to

Jeremy Greer:

do the music.

Marie Vigouroux:

I know oh my god.

Jeremy Greer:

oh, Mary's here.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, hi, hello. I was like, Wait a second. Okay,

Marie Vigouroux:

so let me just read this.

Jeremy Greer:

Make sure everything is going fine.

Marie Vigouroux:

Let me just make sure that the right mic is

Marie Vigouroux:

connected and that the right headphones are connected, and

Marie Vigouroux:

everything seems like it's fine.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, you sound great. So I don't think it

Jeremy Greer:

should be aproblem. So I like using zencastr. I haven't moved

Jeremy Greer:

me and Chris to it yet, but I'm going to, since it just

Jeremy Greer:

basically has a backup of our audio when I start recording.

Marie Vigouroux:

I love that.

Jeremy Greer:

But I know you're going to, like, apply a filter

Jeremy Greer:

to yours. So if you just want to upload your either mp3 or

Jeremy Greer:

wavfile to the drive the shareholder, I'll just pull it

Jeremy Greer:

from there, and if something happens, we'll have a backup.

Marie Vigouroux:

So yeah, that's perfect. That's usually we do

Marie Vigouroux:

something similar also. So yeah, that's perfect. It's just

Marie Vigouroux:

because, like, I have, for some reason when I speak, like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

don't know if it's my mic or my mouth, but like, there's a lot

Marie Vigouroux:

of mouth clicks and so for anybody with like, misophonia,

Marie Vigouroux:

it's really hard to listen to me. So we found that using a

Marie Vigouroux:

declicker is really, really helpful for not hearing those.

Jeremy Greer:

Interesting, yeah, yeah, nobody's ever given us

Jeremy Greer:

that feedback. So I hope - I never heard that. So hopefully -

Marie Vigouroux:

No, but you guys, it doesn't you don't sound

Marie Vigouroux:

like that, because I hear it very, very much. And like, you

Marie Vigouroux:

guys don't sound like that at all. Your audio is always great.

Jeremy Greer:

The only thing I've ever heard was apparently,

Jeremy Greer:

at some point, podcasts were trying to do, like, imagine if,

Jeremy Greer:

like, you were in the left audio and Drew was in the right audio.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh no.

Jeremy Greer:

And of course, like, if you're if you have any

Jeremy Greer:

kind of problems with your hearing, that would just

Jeremy Greer:

probably drive you absolutely crazy. So just like the absolute

Jeremy Greer:

so just like the absolute necessity, the thing that I've

Jeremy Greer:

always heard the absolute necessity, they're recording and

Jeremy Greer:

publish in mono, so it just puts it in both speakers.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh my god, I can't even imagin.

Jeremy Greer:

It's not like we're passing this through like

Jeremy Greer:

a Dolby Atmos system anyway, most people are just like

Jeremy Greer:

running down the road with earphones on.

Marie Vigouroux:

Or at the grocery store, you know, or in

Marie Vigouroux:

their car, it's fine, you know.

Jeremy Greer:

I guess we need to decide on a name before we go

Marie Vigouroux:

We do. So I'm actually really sad that Good

Marie Vigouroux:

too much

Marie Vigouroux:

Eats can't work, because I really did love that. I thought

Marie Vigouroux:

that was so fucking funny.

Jeremy Greer:

I love good eats. And I mean, we can, we can roll

Jeremy Greer:

the dice on it. I don't, I don't. I got away with using

Jeremy Greer:

Carry on my wayward son by Kansas and sponsor the week for

Jeremy Greer:

years. So, like -

Marie Vigouroux:

I know! I can't believe that happened.

Jeremy Greer:

I just don't think people pay attention to podcasts

Jeremy Greer:

like that until they get huge, right? And at that point, I

Jeremy Greer:

think it's a good problem to have. Maybe the podcast formerly

Jeremy Greer:

known as Good Eats.

Marie Vigouroux:

Can you imagine?

Jeremy Greer:

So I'm willing to roll with good eats. If you are.

Jeremy Greer:

If not, then our other options that we were to discuss on last

Jeremy Greer:

night are all great. I think Autumn really liked Sunday roast

Jeremy Greer:

if we're gonna do it on Sundays. Chris, I haven't told Chris

Jeremy Greer:

anything. I was just like out of context. Pick a four. Context.

Jeremy Greer:

Pick a phrase cave in the first he doesn't even know what it is,

Jeremy Greer:

and he chose rude eats, which is, I think is a pretty good

Jeremy Greer:

variation on Good Eats. Yeah, you'll see. You saw a little bit

Jeremy Greer:

of it in this episode where, like Hannibal despises rudeness

Jeremy Greer:

in people. You can pick up on it when Franklin, like, puts the

Jeremy Greer:

the used tissue on the table, and he, like, Hannibal, like,

Jeremy Greer:

stares at it, what did you just do?

Marie Vigouroux:

And just the way that he eats, right? Like,

Marie Vigouroux:

there's a very specific way he's holding himself, like, very

Marie Vigouroux:

straight, like, there's, there's the art of eating is definitely

Marie Vigouroux:

there. Okay, well, I mean, in that case, I really like rude

Marie Vigouroux:

eats too. Okay, I do like Sunday - because I find that it's

Marie Vigouroux:

like, the good - the the play on good eats, which I find, I

Marie Vigouroux:

thought that was hilarious.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, good eats was like, my I really fell in

Jeremy Greer:

love with it. As soon as I said it, I was like, Oh, I'm joking

Jeremy Greer:

about this. No, wait, haha, I'm serious.

Marie Vigouroux:

but actually, this is really good.

Jeremy Greer:

Oh, wait, this was a good idea. Oh no, oh no,

Marie Vigouroux:

oh no, undo it. I wish I hadn't thought of that.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, let's, let's, let's roll with rude eats.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm into it. I'm going to rename our shared

Jeremy Greer:

folder to rude eats. I was thinking and tell me, tell me

Jeremy Greer:

your opinion about this. So I was thinking we could, I don't

Jeremy Greer:

know how much time you have today, so just, just let me

Jeremy Greer:

know. But I was thinking we could do a trailer, and as part

Jeremy Greer:

of that trailer, also do introductions, so we could talk

Jeremy Greer:

about, like, our respective histories or lack thereof with

Jeremy Greer:

the franchise. That way, when we do the first episode, like we

Jeremy Greer:

could go right into the format without having to do all of that

Jeremy Greer:

work, right, like we could just go right into the episode. But I

Jeremy Greer:

don't, I don't know how much time you have today, so I don't

Jeremy Greer:

know if we can do both at the same time, or how do you wanted

Jeremy Greer:

to do it.

Marie Vigouroux:

So I am actually off today, because

Marie Vigouroux:

today is a stat holiday for us. So if we want to do that, I

Marie Vigouroux:

think that that would be a really good idea, because that

Marie Vigouroux:

way, again, it's like one less thing to do, right? It's like,

Marie Vigouroux:

just check, check, check.

Jeremy Greer:

And then we can, of course, we can't really edit

Jeremy Greer:

and publish these until we have music, but we'll all have, like,

Jeremy Greer:

placeholder stuff in place for, oh, I never looked at your Lyric

Jeremy Greer:

stuff. I got home. I forgot about it. I need to do that.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, my God. I need to see your reaction to

Marie Vigouroux:

them. Some of them are kind of ridiculous.

Jeremy Greer:

Oh, I love this. Absolutely love this. I love the

Jeremy Greer:

way she gets just more and more desperate as that song goe.

Marie Vigouroux:

Exactly.

Jeremy Greer:

like it's just really, really funny. If we if I

Jeremy Greer:

was less ethical, I would try to do, like, an AI Mads Mickelson

Jeremy Greer:

voice to do this. I'm absolutely not going to do that.love this

Jeremy Greer:

Jack, what other thing have I asked you for? Oh, that's

Jeremy Greer:

perfect.

Marie Vigouroux:

Because I'm like, okay, because, like, Who

Marie Vigouroux:

is he talking to? He's talking to Jack. Okay, so, like, that's

Marie Vigouroux:

what he wants.

Jeremy Greer:

That's exactly the angle I had, too. Of like

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal, like he meets Jack, and the jack is like, hiding

Jeremy Greer:

Will from him, essentially, right? But like giving him

Jeremy Greer:

access, and he's like, give me that boy. I want the boy.

Jeremy Greer:

I don't care about anything else. Like, just give me the

Jeremy Greer:

boy.

Marie Vigouroux:

All right, do you want me to? Me to cut here?

Marie Vigouroux:

I guess.

Jeremy Greer:

No, just, I'll just keep all the audio in one

Jeremy Greer:

project for this, and just export the trailer separately,

Jeremy Greer:

that way we don't have to stop.

Marie Vigouroux:

Sounds good.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, that was good. I think that's this is

Jeremy Greer:

gonna be great.

Marie Vigouroux:

That was fun. It was very cute. I liked it. I

Marie Vigouroux:

felt like people needed to know how this came to be because,

Marie Vigouroux:

like -

Jeremy Greer:

Yes, absolutely.I

Marie Vigouroux:

I love it so much.

Jeremy Greer:

48, hours later, yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

Barely, like, I think, I think you threw out the

Marie Vigouroux:

idea on a Friday and it's Mon - Saturday. Yeah, it was Saturday.

Jeremy Greer:

It was Saturday.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, my God, we're insane.

Jeremy Greer:

I was driving home from picking up groceries.When I

Jeremy Greer:

was just in that song when I got home on the internet. So it was

Jeremy Greer:

very specifically, Saturday morning which is hilarious.

Marie Vigouroux:

You okay?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, just knocked over my microphone.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh! I was like oh my God, did you fall? Jason

Marie Vigouroux:

Derulo has fallen down the stairs.

Jeremy Greer:

I was trying to stand up and, like, move my body

Jeremy Greer:

a little bit and just straight up, knocked over the microphone.

Jeremy Greer:

So, yeah, drop a marker and just pick it up with the where he's

Jeremy Greer:

at on the spectrum. I'm gonna go from there.

Jeremy Greer:

Do you mind if we take a quick break? I'm gonna get some some

Jeremy Greer:

more water.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, of course.

Jeremy Greer:

I'll be right back.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yep.

Jeremy Greer:

All right, I am back.

Marie Vigouroux:

Perfect. I brought myself, like, a very

Marie Vigouroux:

large glass of water because I was like, I don't know how long

Jeremy Greer:

I have a feeling these are gonna be, like, two

Jeremy Greer:

this is gonna take.

Jeremy Greer:

and a half hour episodes. And I love it, like I'm here for it.

Jeremy Greer:

If you've got the time and the energy to put into that, I'm

Jeremy Greer:

100% into it because.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, that's also why I'm like, let's just do

Marie Vigouroux:

it, like, every other week, because then, like, there's,

Marie Vigouroux:

there's time.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, exactly.

Marie Vigouroux:

Because I don't, I don't want to dis,

Marie Vigouroux:

quote, unquote, disappoint people by being like, Oh, yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, especially if it happens often that, like, we can't do it

Marie Vigouroux:

every week. So yeah, there you go.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm in -very much into that idea, yeah, when you,

Jeremy Greer:

when you, when you suggested bi weekly, I was like, Absolutely,

Jeremy Greer:

yeah. I kind of assumed that you and I were gonna get into like,

Jeremy Greer:

some really good details, like every single scene. And then

Jeremy Greer:

when I watched the episode again, I was like, oh no, oh no.

Jeremy Greer:

There's so much to talk about. There's so much going on.

Marie Vigouroux:

Everything that happens, just like has a

Marie Vigouroux:

purpose. And I love that kind of storytelling, like it's just so

Marie Vigouroux:

good.

Jeremy Greer:

It's so good. It really is.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, my God.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm gonna take us back in.

Jeremy Greer:

What's gonna be ouroutro, what's a good like,

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

outro, save, saveyour appetite. Don't fill up.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, Bon appetit!

Marie Vigouroux:

Bon appétit is very good, yeah, let's do that. Yeah, I'm gonna

Marie Vigouroux:

let you. I'll let you take it from there.

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for Rude Eats: A Hannibal Podcast
Rude Eats: A Hannibal Podcast
Feast your ears on Rude Eats, the new podcast that's been simmering in the shadows, where we dissect NBC's Hannibal with dark humor and ominous insights. Hosted by Marie Vigouroux and Jeremy Greer, art by AlexDreamsArt, music by Jake Lionheart.

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About your hosts

Profile picture for Marie Vigouroux

Marie Vigouroux

I used to describe myself as a foodie in the heyday of Instagram food pics.
Profile picture for Jeremy Greer

Jeremy Greer

I would very much like to boop Hannibal on the nose one day.