Episode 3

Cut to Hannibal

With their pallets teased by the previous amuse-bouche, our hosts are now treated with a delightfully complex potage. What exactly is Hannibal doing with Abigail? Does Will see himself as Abigail's father? Can Alana do anything about all these MEN?!

Rude Eats is hosted by Marie Vigouroux and Jeremy Greer. Follow our YouTube channel for fun videos, episode previews, and full episodes. If the app you're using doesn't support built-in transcripts, you can find PDFs for each episode at this link.

You can hear more of Mary on her Supernatural podcast, Carrying Wayward, or her podcast about Our Flag Means Death, The Gentleman Pirate's Library. Jeremy's podcasts are collected at this website, unless you're looking for X-Men chat in which case you can use this link.

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Our intro theme and all music in the podcast was created by Jake Lionheart (with some help on the lyrics from Marie, Jeremy, and Autumn). Jake is a wonderful musician that can take any idea you throw at him and make it a reality. If you're looking to spruce up your podcast or your weekly DND sessions, get in touch.

Transcript
Marie Vigouroux:

I'm Marie Vigouroux.

Jeremy Greer:

And I'm Jeremy Greer.

Marie Vigouroux:

And this is rude eats, a delicious podcast

Marie Vigouroux:

where we sink our teeth into every episode of the show,

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal.

Marie Vigouroux:

Jake Lionheart (intro music): I want Will Graham, I really do

Marie Vigouroux:

and I think that we could have some fun. Then you can do

Marie Vigouroux:

anything you like. I might even go and help you catch the

Marie Vigouroux:

Shrike. I want Will Graham, I want that man for every meal and

Marie Vigouroux:

on demand. His mind shines and his body's cut. I know that he

Marie Vigouroux:

works for the FBI, but what other man has pure empathy and

Marie Vigouroux:

the ability to see my mind. Jack. What other thing have I

Marie Vigouroux:

ever asked you for besides never looking into my pantry? And I

Marie Vigouroux:

won't get that. Damn. I want Will Graham. I want him so and

Marie Vigouroux:

he really doesn't need to know what's in my meals or on my

Marie Vigouroux:

mind. I just want Will Graham to be mine. I want him, and I want

Marie Vigouroux:

him now. I said before, I don't care how. I'll give him tests.

Marie Vigouroux:

He'll draw a clock, and then his dark desires I will unlock.

Marie Vigouroux:

We'll be together, Willll and me. We'll throw some brand in

Marie Vigouroux:

the parties. We'll cut the flesh. We'll cook the meat.

Marie Vigouroux:

He'll eat the food just like me. Give me goddamn Will Graham.

Marie Vigouroux:

Jeremy, how you doing today?

Jeremy Greer:

I am doing very, very well, how are you doing?

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, I'm a little weary about talking about

Jeremy Greer:

It's a, it's a, it's something you didn't

Jeremy Greer:

this episode.

Jeremy Greer:

expect, I think

Marie Vigouroux:

No.

Jeremy Greer:

Because I think from the first episode, you

Jeremy Greer:

didn't realize that Abigail was going to be such a prominent

Jeremy Greer:

feature of the series. And I've kind of waited to do this until

Jeremy Greer:

this episode specifically because it's so Abigail focused.

Jeremy Greer:

Do you recognize Abigail from any other TV shows that you may

Jeremy Greer:

have covered on your podcast?

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, I know she was on Supernatural because I

Marie Vigouroux:

looked her up after I was like, I need to know she was from

Marie Vigouroux:

because I know her, and she's in that episode where she has a

Marie Vigouroux:

similar like wound on her neck. With Sam in the asylum, right in

Marie Vigouroux:

the mental health facility.

Jeremy Greer:

So glad you knew that. That's so exciting. Yeah,

Jeremy Greer:

so we've, we have both talked about Abigail before in our

Jeremy Greer:

respective Supernatural podcast, which is very funny. Yeah, this

Jeremy Greer:

is a very intense episode, and I want to, I want to warn you, so

Jeremy Greer:

since, since we've last spoken, I've edited the video for our

Jeremy Greer:

theme, and we've released that, and everybody loves it

Jeremy Greer:

obviously, time - podcast time travel, being what it is,

Jeremy Greer:

nothing but glowing comments. In doing that, I went through all

Jeremy Greer:

of season one, basically 10 seconds at a time to pull clips,

Jeremy Greer:

to compose the video. And I just want to apologize in advance.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm sorry for what I'm about to put you through. This is going

Jeremy Greer:

to be a long season, and I'm so sorry.

Marie Vigouroux:

So I told my best friend that I was watching

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal, and her first reaction was "oh." I was like, Oh, no.

Marie Vigouroux:

What is it? What do you mean? I'm like, I've been warned that

Marie Vigouroux:

it's really graphic, like I'm okay with it. And she goes, No

Marie Vigouroux:

no. The Abigail storyline is going to be really challenging

Marie Vigouroux:

for you.

Jeremy Greer:

Interesting.

Marie Vigouroux:

And I was like, Oh no, because this episode

Marie Vigouroux:

really hit like it. I had a visceral reaction to it, like I

Marie Vigouroux:

was shaking the first time that I saw it, like it was just Oh,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, that was psychological horror in a way that the show

Marie Vigouroux:

hasn't managed to do before, or that at least, it hasn't maybe

Marie Vigouroux:

tried or anything. But I just found this episode to be the

Marie Vigouroux:

most disturbing one of all of the other ones so far.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, and again, I am sorry for what you're going

Jeremy Greer:

to experience this season. I'm not going to say it gets worse,

Jeremy Greer:

but I will say that it doesn't necessarily get any better. So

Jeremy Greer:

why don't you tell the folks at home which episode we're covered

Jeremy Greer:

today.

Marie Vigouroux:

We are covering Hannibal, season one, episode

Marie Vigouroux:

three, Potage, which aired on April 18, 2013 written by David

Marie Vigouroux:

Fury, Chris Bruncato and Brian Fuller, directed by David Slade.

Jeremy Greer:

The description of this episode is "under Jack

Jeremy Greer:

Crawford's authority, a lot of will and Hannibal take Abigail

Jeremy Greer:

back to her home in Minnesota. While they are there, the

Jeremy Greer:

copycat strikes again, and a suspicious man stalking Abigail

Jeremy Greer:

for her father's crime goes missing." As we always do, we

Jeremy Greer:

like to talk about the title of the episode, potage, which is a

Jeremy Greer:

comes from the old French as a term for a thick soup or stew

Jeremy Greer:

made by boiling vegetables, grains and maybe some meat or

Jeremy Greer:

fish. It was considered a staple food for many centuries, and it

Jeremy Greer:

was basically, it was kind of like peasantry food, right? Like

Jeremy Greer:

it was something that you could kind of keep on the stove, or

Jeremy Greer:

keep on the fire in a big pot and just continually add to and

Jeremy Greer:

I kind of find it fascinating, because. The idea of, like a,

Jeremy Greer:

like an ever stew kind of situation, because down here

Jeremy Greer:

it's gumbo. Like Gumbo is like a thing that you just, you make a

Jeremy Greer:

roux, and you just put, like whatever weird animals you found

Jeremy Greer:

in your yard, and it makes them delicious. So this works for me

Jeremy Greer:

a lot.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, it's, it's, it's one of those things.

Marie Vigouroux:

So like, I know potage as like, a blended vegetable soup. So

Marie Vigouroux:

like, I guess that would be, like, the more modern definition

Marie Vigouroux:

of it, where you can use any vegetables from your fridge that

Marie Vigouroux:

have been there for a little bit too long. So like, it's this

Marie Vigouroux:

idea of honoring every part of the vegetable you know, seeing

Marie Vigouroux:

as they're blended. Like, it doesn't matter if they don't

Marie Vigouroux:

look good or if they are, like, a little they have like, a

Marie Vigouroux:

little bit of, like, ugly bits, like, you just chop those up and

Marie Vigouroux:

just put it in there and blend it, and it tastes great. And I

Marie Vigouroux:

feel like this episode is a lot about that.

Jeremy Greer:

Of course, this is going to tie in directly to some

Jeremy Greer:

major, a major theme of this episode, which is, like,

Jeremy Greer:

honoring every part of the kill, whether that's deer or possibly

Jeremy Greer:

human. We're gonna - we're gonna get into a lot of stuff. So

Jeremy Greer:

let's jump in and deal with the trauma.

Jeremy Greer:

So we're gonna start out with Abigail and Garrett - her

Jeremy Greer:

father. They're in the woods hunting. They've sighted a doe

Jeremy Greer:

in the field, and Abigail raises her gun. This is interesting to

Jeremy Greer:

me, because there's no dates on this. It's not like five years

Jeremy Greer:

ago or anything, but I think they intentionally, like made

Jeremy Greer:

her look younger, and it looks like, like, this is her first

Jeremy Greer:

time, like, killing something, and so she when she shoots, and

Jeremy Greer:

she shoots twice to kill the doe Garrett seems excited, but she

Jeremy Greer:

seems very shaken by the whole thing, and it's definitely

Jeremy Greer:

something - I remember being a young child, I grew up in a

Jeremy Greer:

hunting family, and, you know, killing a deer and being very

Jeremy Greer:

shaken by it, like it was, it was very strange. And in fact,

Jeremy Greer:

my grandfather, I'll never forget this for all of my life,

Jeremy Greer:

and he taught me a lot about just how to deal with children

Jeremy Greer:

in general. We were in a honey stand one day, and it was like,

Jeremy Greer:

5am and it was freezing, and he looks over and he goes, Jeremy,

Jeremy Greer:

are you - Are you having fun? And I was like, No, pawpaw, I'm

Jeremy Greer:

not having any fun right now. And he's like, let me take you

Jeremy Greer:

back to the house. Like you don't have to do this. Like, if

Jeremy Greer:

you're not having fun, we should do something else together. And

Jeremy Greer:

because that was what he did for fun, right? And I'm just sitting

Jeremy Greer:

there as a miserable kid, but he was like, No, we need to take

Jeremy Greer:

care of this child first. And it's always very meaningful to

Jeremy Greer:

me, and I just wanted to bring it

Marie Vigouroux:

up. So, I mean, I think, I mean, I can see why

Marie Vigouroux:

it's meaningful, and you can tell here that, like, the same

Marie Vigouroux:

consideration isn't necessarily given to Abigail in this moment,

Marie Vigouroux:

like Garrett, just, like, pushes her, I guess, to do this. Or

Marie Vigouroux:

maybe she feels, maybe this is me projecting, but I think maybe

Marie Vigouroux:

she feels obligated to do this because this is something that

Marie Vigouroux:

she does with her dad, and like, you know, a little bit like you

Marie Vigouroux:

and your pawpaw, right? Like, so it sort of feels like that to

Marie Vigouroux:

me. And until you mentioned it, I never even considered that it

Marie Vigouroux:

would not be her first kill. Like, I immediately imagined

Marie Vigouroux:

that that's what it was. But now, now I don't know, because

Marie Vigouroux:

this episode is all about, like, gaslighting you to making you

Marie Vigouroux:

think certain things, and then, like, proving you wrong. So I

Marie Vigouroux:

don't, I don't know anymore. I don't know anything.

Jeremy Greer:

And there's, you know, the question of one of the

Jeremy Greer:

other, I guess, kind of themes in this episode, is that the

Jeremy Greer:

question of, What does Abigail know, and what is she, what is

Jeremy Greer:

she willing to just talk about? And that plays into this, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Like, is this her first kill? Is this something that she's done a

Jeremy Greer:

lot? It definitely seems that way. As they take the doe back

Jeremy Greer:

to the hunting camp, they talk about, she's she almost protest,

Jeremy Greer:

right? She's up. She's thinking about all of the reasons why she

Jeremy Greer:

shouldn't have killed this dough. Of like, they have a four

Jeremy Greer:

year old, like they could be compared to a four year old

Jeremy Greer:

human. They care about her, their environment, all these

Jeremy Greer:

things. And Garrett listens to this, and he doesn't like

Jeremy Greer:

dismiss this, which I think would be the easy response.

Jeremy Greer:

Instead, he says, You're absolutely right, which is why

Jeremy Greer:

we're going to honor every part of her. None of her will go to

Jeremy Greer:

waste. And this is again, like we're going to be driving this

Jeremy Greer:

home for the rest of the episode. So get ready for we're

Jeremy Greer:

going to honor her, and we're going to talk about it a lot.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, and it's, it's really like, this is where

Marie Vigouroux:

it starts, because I find that in this episode, there's so much

Marie Vigouroux:

double speak, right? Like there are two stories that are

Marie Vigouroux:

happening at the same time, and I'm not sure that I unders-

Marie Vigouroux:

fully understood the second story, because I'm missing bits

Marie Vigouroux:

and pieces of it.But here we have like, the first example of

Marie Vigouroux:

double speak, which really hammers home the horror factor

Marie Vigouroux:

for me. Because on the surface, Garrett is talking about the

Marie Vigouroux:

doe, but you know that he's also talking about the girls that

Marie Vigouroux:

he's killed. And, like, this is the first instance of that, but

Marie Vigouroux:

there's going to be so many others, and I'm sure a bunch of

Marie Vigouroux:

them that I'm not catching because I still don't know

Marie Vigouroux:

what's gonna happen. I hate this so much!

Jeremy Greer:

It's so good. It's so good.

Marie Vigouroux:

I know I love it. I hate that I love it.

Jeremy Greer:

He hands her a knife, and she begins to gut the

Jeremy Greer:

animal. He specifically says, damage the organs and you'll

Jeremy Greer:

ruin the meat. This is a thing that, like, whenever I saw deers

Jeremy Greer:

being processed, they were always like, hung up so that the

Jeremy Greer:

blood would like, drain out to the ground. And like, having

Jeremy Greer:

this on a table is very unusual to me, which doesn't really

Jeremy Greer:

matter, but he very specifically says, like, Excuse me, Abigail

Jeremy Greer:

says, like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to eat her

Jeremy Greer:

after we do all of this. And that's something that I remember

Jeremy Greer:

as a kid of like, watching the blood drain from a deer that my

Jeremy Greer:

grandfather killed and thinking, like, oh, Grandma's gonna make

Jeremy Greer:

deer burgers tonight. And it's not from that deer, but it's

Jeremy Greer:

from a previous deer that looked exactly like this, and I still

Jeremy Greer:

ate the deer burger like I was. I was like, still did it, but

Jeremy Greer:

also it was, it was a weird thing to think, to wrap your

Jeremy Greer:

head around, of like, oh, we killed this animal and we're

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It is really weird,

Marie Vigouroux:

going to consume its flesh.

Marie Vigouroux:

especially given how disconnected we are as, like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

guess modern human beings from, like, the food chain, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Like where we buy meat, at the grocery store or at the

Marie Vigouroux:

butchers, and it's like, we never really have to have to

Marie Vigouroux:

kill our meat, right? But there was a time where you would only

Marie Vigouroux:

eat meat if you killed an animal, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Exactly.

Marie Vigouroux:

So definitely, definitely a weird thing for

Marie Vigouroux:

modern humans, or like city humans, to think about.

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail begins to slice open the fur. She talks

Jeremy Greer:

about how soft the doe is, and at some point, the doe fur turns

Jeremy Greer:

into human hair with hands running through it, and a head

Jeremy Greer:

is pulled back. This is the corpse of one of the girls that

Jeremy Greer:

Garrett Jacob Hobbs has killed. And Abigail wakes up in the in

Jeremy Greer:

the hospital. She's been in a coma since her father attacked

Jeremy Greer:

her in the first episode. So she wakes up and she's like,

Jeremy Greer:

intubated, and she's got, you know, sensors all over, so she's

Jeremy Greer:

just absolutely freaking out and not having a good day at all.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, yeah, no, I don't think she's been

Marie Vigouroux:

having good days, frankly, like, since watching her mom get

Marie Vigouroux:

murdered and, you know, all of that fun stuff, but she's

Marie Vigouroux:

already having nightmares, right? Like, what wakes her up

Marie Vigouroux:

from the coma is this nightmare or now I don't know, maybe

Marie Vigouroux:

memory. I don't know anymore.

Jeremy Greer:

What does she know?

Marie Vigouroux:

I don't know about the double speak. What

Marie Vigouroux:

does she know? What has she done, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Like, you're the Jack Crawford POV in this

Jeremy Greer:

episode of like, what does Abigail know? What does she -

Jeremy Greer:

What does she -

Marie Vigouroux:

I guess so! I feel like Jack thinks that she's

Marie Vigouroux:

involved, like he's I don't know that I really fall into that

Marie Vigouroux:

yet, but he definitely thinks that she's involved.

Jeremy Greer:

We go, we get our intro, and then we go over to

Jeremy Greer:

Will's house, who is in his boxer shorts as he's letting his

Jeremy Greer:

dogs out to to roam around. And Alana shows up. She is snuck up

Jeremy Greer:

in her electric vehicle. I feel like in a modern and I'm like, a

Jeremy Greer:

modern show, she'd be like, my Toyota Prius. Like, instead, she

Jeremy Greer:

just says, My electric vehicle is super quiet, great for

Jeremy Greer:

stalking. And she tells him that Abigail has woken up. And he

Jeremy Greer:

immediately is like, I'm gonna go put on a coat. And she's

Jeremy Greer:

like, actually, let's let's have coffee first. Like, let's talk.

Jeremy Greer:

And she wants to have this discussion, because, as you just

Jeremy Greer:

mentioned, Jack believes that Abigail is a part of these

Jeremy Greer:

murders. She doesn't necessarily believe that, but all of that

Jeremy Greer:

aside, she does believe that whoever talks to Abigail first

Jeremy Greer:

about this can't have been involved in the trauma that she

Jeremy Greer:

experienced at the hands of her father, so no Dr. Lecter, no

Jeremy Greer:

special agent Will Graham, and she's volunteering her own time

Jeremy Greer:

to be there.

Marie Vigouroux:

And I don't think she's wrong about that. I

Marie Vigouroux:

think Alana turns out to be right about a lot of stuff in

Marie Vigouroux:

this episode, and this is one of the things that I think she's

Marie Vigouroux:

right about.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, I've, since we last spoke, I've read three

Jeremy Greer:

of the Hannibal books and watch one of the movies. So you might,

Jeremy Greer:

you might say -

Marie Vigouroux:

And people make fun of me for binging content,

Marie Vigouroux:

right?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it's ridiculous. I'm Hannibal pilled

Jeremy Greer:

right now. I'm having dreams about Hannibal.

Jeremy Greer:

And I had forgotten that Alana Bloom -

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh no.

Marie Vigouroux:

Alan Bloom is in the books, and they, they gender flipped her to

Marie Vigouroux:

Alana bloom in the movies, or, excuse me, in this TV show and

Marie Vigouroux:

in the books, like she's just basically like a person that

Marie Vigouroux:

backs Will up sometimes, right? Like another, another one. She's

Marie Vigouroux:

not directly involved like this. And I just love the fact that,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, she is really the only voice of reason for Abigail in

Marie Vigouroux:

this entire episode, because you -

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes!

Jeremy Greer:

Throughout it, you can tell Hannibal Lecter has his

Jeremy Greer:

own agenda, which he's just like, which seems to be just

Jeremy Greer:

staring at people. That's this whole thing. And, of course,

Jeremy Greer:

Will Graham is in his own little like world, his like, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

his make believe world. And like Alana, starts here, is like,

Jeremy Greer:

very much like on Abigail side. And I just love that.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, I'm gonna talk about that a little

Marie Vigouroux:

bit later, but it sort of feels like, especially when it comes

Marie Vigouroux:

to will. And Alana like, Will is like, of course she can have 17

Marie Vigouroux:

lollipops if she wants to have them. And Alana is like, are you

Marie Vigouroux:

crazy? Of course, she can't do that.

Jeremy Greer:

She's a child, Will! What are you doing!

Marie Vigouroux:

She's a child!

Jeremy Greer:

And she also, like, kind of makes a point. She

Jeremy Greer:

says something here about, like, dogs can promises and people

Jeremy Greer:

can't, and talks about Will says, like, I'm not collecting

Jeremy Greer:

strays. And she basically just volunteers to say, like, I want

Jeremy Greer:

to go and deal with her, deal with Abigail on my own terms.

Jeremy Greer:

And she does. She brings, like, she goes to the psychiatric

Jeremy Greer:

hospital and brings clothes and music. She has a weird line here

Jeremy Greer:

about, like, how she has gift cards, and she's really, really

Jeremy Greer:

bad at using gift cards, which I think is just a real interesting

Jeremy Greer:

line, like, a real interesting like, insight to Alana. I like,

Jeremy Greer:

I like Alana a lot. By the way, she's one of my favorite

Jeremy Greer:

characters.

Marie Vigouroux:

See, I don't trust her since she openly lied

Marie Vigouroux:

Interesting. Interesting.

Marie Vigouroux:

to Will. So now I'm like, I don't know anymore.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah. I don't trust anybody on this goddamn TV show.

Jeremy Greer:

That's that's probably good, good, good thing,

Jeremy Greer:

right? Apologies, UPS has arrived, and my dogs are going

Jeremy Greer:

crazy in the living room, so if he likes coming through on the

Jeremy Greer:

mic, I'm sorry.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh yeah. I mean, no, now that you mentioned

Marie Vigouroux:

it, I hear it, but I didn't hear it, but I didn't hear it before,

Marie Vigouroux:

but it's okay. Fluffy has been singing the song of his people,

Marie Vigouroux:

so we're all good.

Jeremy Greer:

Thank you, Fluffy. Abigail, kind of questions like,

Jeremy Greer:

Who Alana is, what she's doing there. It starts asking general

Jeremy Greer:

questions about, you know, her parents being dead. Ask who

Jeremy Greer:

buried them? There's an interesting moment here where

Jeremy Greer:

she says that she remembered the attack. And Alana says, Well,

Jeremy Greer:

you told the nurses that she didn't remember. She goes, Oh, I

Jeremy Greer:

remembered. I just didn't want to talk to it, talk to it about

Jeremy Greer:

them. And this is, I think, maybe our first clue that

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail is not quite on the level. Should we say.

Marie Vigouroux:

Right? Well, so Okay, the first time that I

Marie Vigouroux:

watched this, I this didn't shock me in any way, but since

Marie Vigouroux:

then, I've re watched the episode, and I read your notes

Marie Vigouroux:

and so, so, yeah, when I first watched it, I thought about how

Marie Vigouroux:

- so I survived a school shooting, and after, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

especially in the first couple weeks, like I was completely

Marie Vigouroux:

numb to it, like I would just tell and retell what happened to

Marie Vigouroux:

anyone who asked, really, without showing any kind of

Marie Vigouroux:

emotion. Like I would describe, like, really disturbing things

Marie Vigouroux:

without feeling them and so - what, and I was thinking about,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, what I was going to have to do. I was like, oh, yeah, I'm

Marie Vigouroux:

gonna have to do some therapy about that, like, but I was

Marie Vigouroux:

completely disconnected from it, and so I didn't think that

Marie Vigouroux:

Abigail's behavior was weird, because I was like, Oh, I've

Marie Vigouroux:

been there. I get that. But now I'm thinking maybe that was me,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, projecting onto to her.

Jeremy Greer:

No, I think it could be both. I think it could

Jeremy Greer:

definitely be both. And I think that's the most interesting part

Jeremy Greer:

of this episode too. Is like how well it tries to line, like it

Jeremy Greer:

doesn't lean one way or the other, and at the end of the

Jeremy Greer:

episode, like we're still going to be left guessing about where

Jeremy Greer:

her, you know, where her, what she knows, what her history is,

Jeremy Greer:

what her motivations are. It's really fascinating. I'm

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm definitely going to be left guessing. You

Marie Vigouroux:

know already, but I don't.

Jeremy Greer:

Yes, I know everything. Let me tell you

Jeremy Greer:

about it's so interesting to just having read the books just

Jeremy Greer:

so recently, this whole Garrett Jacob Hobbs thing is literally a

Jeremy Greer:

throwaway line and Red Dragon, which is the book that this is

Jeremy Greer:

based on, like, it's just a it's just a case Will solve. Like,

Jeremy Greer:

it's not even, like, it's, literally just a line and, like,

Jeremy Greer:

that's it.

Marie Vigouroux:

So how did you react to Abigail, like, when you

Marie Vigouroux:

first watched this? Like, what was your first impression of

Jeremy Greer:

So I'm a big brother to, like, three little

Jeremy Greer:

her?

Jeremy Greer:

sisters, and I remember being wanting to be very protective,

Jeremy Greer:

like I was on Alana's side of this. I thought that immediately

Jeremy Greer:

thought that Jack wanted to use her for his own advantage, which

Jeremy Greer:

he explicitly states later in the episode. And I thought that

Jeremy Greer:

knowing everything I know about Hannibal Lecter, I was like,

Jeremy Greer:

well, we got to keep her away from that dude. That's not going

Jeremy Greer:

to be that's not going to be good at all. And then the same

Jeremy Greer:

thing with Will, I didn't know really understand Will's

Jeremy Greer:

character yet, because it's still early on, right? And this

Jeremy Greer:

was a huge marked departure from the the original material. So I

Jeremy Greer:

was, I was wanted to be very protective of Abigail. So when

Jeremy Greer:

she was experiencing this, I was kind of in the same way that you

Jeremy Greer:

were, of like, Oh, she woke up in shock. She's terrified. She's

Jeremy Greer:

just doing everything she can protect herself. And this is

Jeremy Greer:

going to continue when, like you see in the next scene where,

Jeremy Greer:

when Alana makes her report to back to Jack and calls her

Jeremy Greer:

manipulative, and Hannibal Lecter makes the point of, like,

Jeremy Greer:

she could be manipulative without being a killer, without

Jeremy Greer:

being a murderer.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes!

Jeremy Greer:

I'm like, and when Hannibal Lecter is stepping up,

Jeremy Greer:

what are we doing?

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes! But, and that's the thing, right? Like

Marie Vigouroux:

this girl was raised by a serial killer, right? As far as we

Marie Vigouroux:

know. So we don't really know how this man was within their

Marie Vigouroux:

family. Like we she says that he was loving until he wasn't. But

Marie Vigouroux:

like, what is loving when it comes to, like, weird family

Marie Vigouroux:

dynamics like that, right? Like, this man may have been feeding

Marie Vigouroux:

them human beings without their knowledge. Like, how loving is

Marie Vigouroux:

that really? Right? So I'm kind of thinking that, like, she had

Marie Vigouroux:

to learn to survive, like, especially emotionally survive

Marie Vigouroux:

in that household, and like, manipulation can be a response

Marie Vigouroux:

to complex trauma like this. So I again, like, I'm very much on

Marie Vigouroux:

on Abigail's side. Like I don't, I don't think that being

Marie Vigouroux:

manipulative means that she's automatically a killer.

Jeremy Greer:

Jack wants Will to go see her, which Alana is very

Jeremy Greer:

much against. And he like, checks in with Hannibal on this.

Jeremy Greer:

And it kind of funny like this side, there's so many like cuts

Jeremy Greer:

to Hannibal in this that I feel like like - and "cuts to

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal," honestly, great name for a podcast. If you get what

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah it's true! "Cut to Hannibal!"

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm saying!

Jeremy Greer:

Works in several different ways, but there's just

Jeremy Greer:

so many shots of like, what's Hannibal's reaction to this? And

Jeremy Greer:

he's like, yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

He's just like, Oh, yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

We jump over to Will teaching in his classroom.

Jeremy Greer:

He's teaching the case of Garrett Jacob Hobbs. He notes

Jeremy Greer:

that all of the victims look like Abigail, and as he starts

Jeremy Greer:

talking about the copycat who walks in, but Hannibal himself,

Jeremy Greer:

and he's, he actually says, like, you know, this, this, this

Jeremy Greer:

person who killed her was like, better. He elevated this killing

Jeremy Greer:

to art. And like Hannibal, again, cut to Hannibal take a

Jeremy Greer:

drink.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes! And he's just, like, smiling, you know,

Marie Vigouroux:

like those were words of love. He's like, Oh, praise. I didn't

Marie Vigouroux:

know that. I enjoyed that. You know, this was foreplay. This

Marie Vigouroux:

was foreplay.

Jeremy Greer:

Foreplay! You have that in your notes, and I'm so

Jeremy Greer:

excited that you said that. That's hilarious, because it's

Jeremy Greer:

exactly, it's very, very apt. Like, it's very like, this is

Jeremy Greer:

the way that you get his attention, right? Like, you

Jeremy Greer:

flatter him. And this is like throughout any adaptation of the

Jeremy Greer:

series, but especially this, when, like, flattery will get

Jeremy Greer:

you anywhere, especially if it comes from someone that he's

Jeremy Greer:

interested in. Of course, he's already expressed a lot of

Jeremy Greer:

interest in Will. And then there, you know, Will brings up,

Jeremy Greer:

like, hey, this killer probably knew Garrett Jacob Hobbs because

Jeremy Greer:

he did such a good job of imitating the kill. And then, of

Jeremy Greer:

course, the phone call. He thinks that this copycat was the

Jeremy Greer:

person that called and warned Garrett Jacob Hobbs.

Marie Vigouroux:

Exactly, and the fact that, like, he put that

Marie Vigouroux:

together is making Hannibal just like beam with like pride. You

Marie Vigouroux:

know, I'm like, oh my god!

Jeremy Greer:

We're gonna jump back to Abigail. And our friend

Jeremy Greer:

Freddie Lounds has managed to sneak in here. It's such a

Jeremy Greer:

marked difference from the book Freddie Lounds, who was like a

Jeremy Greer:

greasy reporter, kind of character, doing anything he

Jeremy Greer:

possibly can for the story. You know, Philip Seymour Hoffman

Jeremy Greer:

plays him in one of the movies, and it's just greasy hair and

Jeremy Greer:

like willing to do anything this, Freddie Lounds is markedly

Jeremy Greer:

different. She's she's very manipulative. We see that from

Jeremy Greer:

the very beginning, where she tells Abigail like, you have to

Jeremy Greer:

get your story out. Your story is very important. I can help

Jeremy Greer:

you tell your truth. You don't want to listen to these FBI

Jeremy Greer:

agents. They're not even FBI agents like you know he's

Jeremy Greer:

insane, and he's, of course, saying this as Will is walking

Jeremy Greer:

in the room. And it's interesting the back and forth

Jeremy Greer:

that she has with Abigail. Because Abigail, like, I

Jeremy Greer:

expected her to be on the defensive, but she's, she's

Jeremy Greer:

relatively aggressive with Freddie, like, especially when

Jeremy Greer:

Freddie is, like, you know, if you tell me what you know, I

Jeremy Greer:

could tell you what I can fill in the blanks. She's an Abigail

Jeremy Greer:

response. Like, why don't you tell me what you know? Like,

Jeremy Greer:

that's so good.

Marie Vigouroux:

It was so good. And I think I just, I was

Marie Vigouroux:

impressed with the show here, because I think they do

Marie Vigouroux:

something super, super smart, because we as the audience are

Marie Vigouroux:

prepped to look out for any signs of manipulation from

Marie Vigouroux:

Abigail at this point, right? Just because of what Alana has

Marie Vigouroux:

said, and like, she manipulates Freddie so well, like Freddie is

Marie Vigouroux:

not even aware that that she's being manipulated, because she's

Marie Vigouroux:

probably thinking like, oh, this young girl is not a threat to

Marie Vigouroux:

me. But we see Abigail quite differently, and we see her get

Marie Vigouroux:

like, all of the information that she wanted out of Freddie,

Marie Vigouroux:

and she gives like, very little to none back to her. And this

Marie Vigouroux:

kind of comes back to what Alana was saying, like withholding

Marie Vigouroux:

information to gain information. So like, now we're starting to

Marie Vigouroux:

have a distrust of Abigail as well.

Jeremy Greer:

And what a, what a brilliant move to do this, like

Jeremy Greer:

against Freddie Lounds, who is somebody that we distrust

Jeremy Greer:

immediately, right? Like, she's a she's a reporter.

Marie Vigouroux:

Exactly! We don't like her.

Jeremy Greer:

We don't like her, even though she's beautiful. We

Jeremy Greer:

love her, like we don't like her -

Marie Vigouroux:

You know, I was actually thinking about this

Marie Vigouroux:

because I rewatched the episode today, and I'm like, I hate her

Marie Vigouroux:

so much, but she's so pretty, I feel bad.

Jeremy Greer:

They talk about her dad's killings. Abigail

Jeremy Greer:

wonders if she's as sick as her dad, and then, as I mentioned

Jeremy Greer:

earlier, she's talking about Will Graham as as Will and

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal enter, and basically just bum rushed Freddie out. I

Jeremy Greer:

love the moment where Freddie offers her business card to

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail and will does like a very petulant grab and just

Jeremy Greer:

stuffs it in his pocket, like it's just very it's very

Jeremy Greer:

childish, like he just reaches out and snatches it from her.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, I love that moment. Actually. It was

Marie Vigouroux:

really great. And there's just one line that I want to come

Marie Vigouroux:

back to, because she does say to Abigail, what you tell everyone

Marie Vigouroux:

is going to define the rest of your life, and oh, boy, do we

Marie Vigouroux:

see that later on.

Jeremy Greer:

Oh yeah, it's going to be very important.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

After they get Freddie out, Will introduces

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal and asks, like, Hey, do you remember me? And she's like,

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah. Or she says, I remember you, talking to Will, and says

Jeremy Greer:

you killed my dad. And Will's face is very intense. We should

Jeremy Greer:

note that he's making eye contact here, which I find

Jeremy Greer:

fascinating because and throughout most of this episode,

Jeremy Greer:

he does not do that with anybody except Abigail.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, again, I think it's like that

Marie Vigouroux:

connection that he has created with her, right, while she was

Marie Vigouroux:

in the coma. But it does make me wonder, because, okay, when I

Marie Vigouroux:

watched this the first time, I was like, well, she's obviously

Marie Vigouroux:

gonna remember Hannibal's voice, like, because his accent is so

Marie Vigouroux:

specific, right? Like she was the one to answer the phone, and

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal knows that, like he knows that she picked up the

Marie Vigouroux:

phone. And I'm like, does she not recognize him? Like, what's

Marie Vigouroux:

going on here? I just couldn't wrap my head around the fact

Marie Vigouroux:

that she wouldn't recognize his accent.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it's very distinct, right? Like this, this

Jeremy Greer:

kind of Eastern European kind of such thing that he's going for

Jeremy Greer:

very, very educated, very melodic, like, has a very unique

Jeremy Greer:

voice. That dude could be a voice actor, and I'd be like,

Jeremy Greer:

Oh, I know who that is. That's the guy.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah exactly.

Jeremy Greer:

That's that's old Mads and you don't - and there's

Jeremy Greer:

gonna be a couple of times where you think, like, does she know

Jeremy Greer:

it was Hannibal? And we're gonna explore that a lot in the

Jeremy Greer:

episode, they just had to go for a walk, Will apologizes for not

Jeremy Greer:

saving her mother. And then they talk about, Abigail talks about,

Jeremy Greer:

like, you know, how her father was was loving right up into the

Jeremy Greer:

second that he wasn't. And then she's worried about nightmares,

Jeremy Greer:

and says, I'm going to be messed up, aren't I? And there's a line

Jeremy Greer:

that's lifted directly out of the book that is actually from,

Jeremy Greer:

ironically, Will and his son, or like, stepson, where she says,

Jeremy Greer:

So killing somebody feels that bad as will like expresses kind

Jeremy Greer:

of the horror about it, and he says it's the ugliest thing in

Jeremy Greer:

the world. And again, take a shot, cut to Hannibal when he

Jeremy Greer:

says this, because Hannibal is very interested in Will's

Jeremy Greer:

impressions of killing like he wants, he wants to get at that.

Jeremy Greer:

So I'm, I just, I just love it so much.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's so funny, like, and that, like you said,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, there's a lot of tension in this scene, in part because

Marie Vigouroux:

of, like, the cut to Hannibal and the way that he's looking at

Marie Vigouroux:

Will, like he is like, yeah, it's like, keep it in your

Marie Vigouroux:

pants, Hannibal. Just this is inappropriate, like, put it back

Marie Vigouroux:

in but there's also the fact that Abigail felt like crap when

Marie Vigouroux:

she killed the doe, right that we saw earlier. So I'm like, Why

Marie Vigouroux:

is she asking if killing somebody feels that bad? Of

Marie Vigouroux:

course, if killing a doe feels bad, then, like, of course,

Marie Vigouroux:

killing a human is gonna feel worse, no matter the reason.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, again, weird.

Jeremy Greer:

It's very - Yeah. It is very weird. They wrap up

Jeremy Greer:

with her and Will and Hannibal go to Hannibal's extremely

Jeremy Greer:

expensive, like, Rolls Royce car. It looks like Jesus Christ,

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal, would you, why are you driving this around? Like, this

Jeremy Greer:

should be in a garage, probably, like, a $300,000 vehicle that

Jeremy Greer:

he's just rolling around with Will Graham in.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, my God.

Jeremy Greer:

Freddy. Freddy,

Marie Vigouroux:

They see him rolling. They hatin'.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, absolutely. We need to change the theme.

Jeremy Greer:

It's not too late. We have, we have a couple of weeks before we

Jeremy Greer:

officially launch. Let's do a new video. Let's do a new song.

Marie Vigouroux:

Hey, Jake.

Jeremy Greer:

Jake, come here!

Marie Vigouroux:

Guess what?

Jeremy Greer:

Jake would be so down. He would be immediately

Jeremy Greer:

down.

Marie Vigouroux:

Season two, maybe?

Jeremy Greer:

Season two, yeah. Freddie Lounds is here. Will

Jeremy Greer:

won't look her in the eyes, and she she says some really weird

Jeremy Greer:

stuff here because he mentions that she called him insane. And

Jeremy Greer:

she's like, I can undo that, or I could make it worse, which

Jeremy Greer:

doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And eventually he

Jeremy Greer:

responds with this classic line of, it's not very smart to piss

Jeremy Greer:

off a guy who thinks about killing people for a living. And

Jeremy Greer:

it once again, cut to Hannibal. I'm just gonna go because we're

Jeremy Greer:

just there. Yeah, but yeah, it she I love this because we smash

Jeremy Greer:

cut to Jack, repeating this line as he's reading the articles

Jeremy Greer:

that she wrote about it, and it's and he's mad at Hannibal,

Jeremy Greer:

and he says, like, Hey, I thought you could keep you know,

Jeremy Greer:

I thought you could keep him from saying this. And Hannibal,

Jeremy Greer:

I love this responsive, I trust Will to speak his mind. Is such

Jeremy Greer:

a great response. Like, I'm keeping that in my back pocket

Jeremy Greer:

for like, Why did your friend say such and such? Like, I don't

Jeremy Greer:

know.

Marie Vigouroux:

And it's again, like, also this, this idea of

Marie Vigouroux:

like, well, again, I don't know. I don't want to give Hannibal

Marie Vigouroux:

Lecter too much credit, but it seems like so many people are

Marie Vigouroux:

babying Will in so many ways, and Hannibal is kind of not, and

Marie Vigouroux:

I appreciate that.

Jeremy Greer:

That's one of the things throughout the fiction

Jeremy Greer:

that I find is interesting about Hannibal is like, he doesn't cut

Jeremy Greer:

people any sort of slack for any reason. It's like he treatsWill

Jeremy Greer:

on Will's own terms, like it's never like, oh, we have to, we

Jeremy Greer:

have to baby step around will because he does X, Y or Z. It's

Jeremy Greer:

like, no, no, I'm just going to talk to him like a human being.

Jeremy Greer:

And again, we absolutely do not have to hand it to the cannibal

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal Lecter, right? We absolutely do not.

Marie Vigouroux:

Exactly. Exactly. I do not condone

Marie Vigouroux:

cannibalism, but I do love that he treats Will like an equal.

Jeremy Greer:

There's a joke going around. I saw a comedian

Jeremy Greer:

do where the comedian says is, you know, a niece or a nephew,

Jeremy Greer:

or somebody told him that Taylor Swift was bigger than Michael

Jeremy Greer:

Jackson, and he said, well, she's gonna have to do some

Jeremy Greer:

pretty rough stuff, because there's a difference. There's a

Jeremy Greer:

difference between liking someone and liking someone

Jeremy Greer:

despite the allegations. And so far, there's no allegations

Jeremy Greer:

against Taylor Swift. I just thought that was really funny.

Jeremy Greer:

So like, Yeah, we love Hannibal despite the allegations.

Marie Vigouroux:

There you go. Exactly the allegations.

Marie Vigouroux:

Alledgedly. Alledgedly, he eats people.

Jeremy Greer:

Allegedly, the cannibal. Yeah, we actually, we

Jeremy Greer:

haven't seen him do anything. We just assume in episode three

Jeremy Greer:

that he's doing all of this.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, I mean, we did see him cut up a pair of

Marie Vigouroux:

lungs, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Well, we saw him cut up the lungs, but, like,

Jeremy Greer:

those could be like, goat lungs, right? We don't know. We don't

Jeremy Greer:

know just because they also showed us a human body missing

Jeremy Greer:

lungs doesn't necessarily mean -

Marie Vigouroux:

it's all circumstantial, okay!

Jeremy Greer:

Circumstancial evidence. I'm just saying, okay.

Marie Vigouroux:

All right, all right. I'll give you that.

Jeremy Greer:

They discussed taking Abigail back to her home

Jeremy Greer:

where she was attacked in Alana is a hard No. Hannibal agrees

Jeremy Greer:

with her, but also says it could possibly help. I love Jack's

Jeremy Greer:

line here, where he says we have a difference of opinion, so I'm

Jeremy Greer:

gonna go with the one that furthers my agenda.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, you gotta hand it to Jack for the

Marie Vigouroux:

honesty like I you know, again, I hate that he's doing this, but

Marie Vigouroux:

I appreciate that he's honest about it.

Jeremy Greer:

Absolutely.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like he doesn't pretend to care about Abigail.

Marie Vigouroux:

He's like, No, all I care about is my investigation. There's

Marie Vigouroux:

something that Alana says here that again, I find really

Marie Vigouroux:

important later on. It's like, you take her home, she may

Marie Vigouroux:

experience intense emotion, react aggressively, or reenact

Marie Vigouroux:

some aspect of the traumatic event without realizing it. And

Marie Vigouroux:

like I said, I'm still a little bit suspicious of Alana, since

Marie Vigouroux:

she openly lied to Will, but she kind of turns out to be three

Marie Vigouroux:

for three on this one.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, yeah. She - again, she has, no matter what

Jeremy Greer:

she's doing with Will, she has Abigail's best interest at

Jeremy Greer:

heart, way more than Jack Crawford does, way more than

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal, the cannibal, and even maybe more than Will, who seems

Jeremy Greer:

like he's got his own personal shit wrapped up with her, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Like it's not like he directly cares for Abigail, like it's, I

Jeremy Greer:

don't want to say anything. Like, I was like, Oh, let me

Jeremy Greer:

talk about, let me talk about a bunch of emotions that Will has

Jeremy Greer:

in four episodes. But no, I will just, we'll just hold it

Marie Vigouroux:

No, but, I mean, like, I think even just

Marie Vigouroux:

there, like, I think it's more about, like, you know, when

Marie Vigouroux:

people say they're sorry but they don't really, like, it's

Marie Vigouroux:

more about unburdening themselves rather than really

Marie Vigouroux:

making amends with the person. Like it sort of feels like that

Marie Vigouroux:

to me, and like not a moral judgment or anything like I'm

Marie Vigouroux:

just kind of calling it the way that I'm seeing it right now. It

Marie Vigouroux:

feels like Will is more interested in Abigail forgiving

Marie Vigouroux:

him than He is in Abigail's well being.

Jeremy Greer:

Yes, absolutely, that's what I definitely agree

Jeremy Greer:

with that. We cut to Freddie Lounds, who's meeting with a

Jeremy Greer:

with a young man. This turns out to be the brother of the young

Jeremy Greer:

woman that the copycat killer killed, whose names I have

Jeremy Greer:

totally forgotten, even though I literally just watched this

Jeremy Greer:

episode, like an hour ago. That's how great my brain is

Jeremy Greer:

working. I think this dude's name is Nicholas. Maybe.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, that's right.

Jeremy Greer:

And Freddie is doing her best at manipulating

Jeremy Greer:

Nicholas, but basically getting riled up, and says that Abigail

Jeremy Greer:

has woken up, so she's tried to, like, basically poke the bear a

Jeremy Greer:

little bit here, see what she can, kind of shake loose and get

Jeremy Greer:

a story going.

Marie Vigouroux:

I feel like so much so far, of like the

Marie Vigouroux:

terrible things that have happened on this show wouldn't

Marie Vigouroux:

have happened if Freddie wasn't such a terrible person?

Jeremy Greer:

I It's really weird, because I have this love

Jeremy Greer:

hate relationship with Freddie Lounds, because like abusing

Jeremy Greer:

victims for so a perfect example in the books. Uh, the books

Jeremy Greer:

start out with Will having been attacked by Hannibal Lecter, and

Jeremy Greer:

he's in the hospital Freddie Lounds, sneaks in and, like,

Jeremy Greer:

pulls the sheet back and takes pictures of his like damaged

Jeremy Greer:

body with like tubes coming out of it, everything, and then

Jeremy Greer:

publishes them in the Tatler, right? So, like, that's, that's

Jeremy Greer:

the level of Freddie that I am used to, and this elevates it a

Jeremy Greer:

bit. But, like, she's still that person, right? She still will do

Jeremy Greer:

anything for the story. And yeah, he she just manipulates

Jeremy Greer:

the hell out of this dude. Alana, Hannibal and Abigail all

Jeremy Greer:

arrive at her home, which has now been spray painted with the

Jeremy Greer:

word cannibals all over it. Huge bummer. Huge bummer.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, gonna take a while to, like, remove, right,

Marie Vigouroux:

the house, I guess, right? Like,

Jeremy Greer:

I never had my house, like, rolled. I don't

Jeremy Greer:

know if that's a thing in Canada. I don't know if you know

Jeremy Greer:

what that is -

Marie Vigouroux:

Like with toilet paper rolls?

Marie Vigouroux:

I love that. Yep, I feel that.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah or I've never had, like, my house egged or

Jeremy Greer:

anything. And every time I see it happening, like, every time I

Jeremy Greer:

They walk towards the house and they stop at the blood stain

Jeremy Greer:

drive by a house and I see like, the tree in the front yard got

Jeremy Greer:

rolled, I just get so irrationally angry. I'm like,

Jeremy Greer:

somebody has to clean that up, and it's not the people who did

Jeremy Greer:

it, and it makes me so mad. Yes, ask me. Ask me how I'm 40. Tell

Jeremy Greer:

where her mother died, and Will explains that there's no tape,

Jeremy Greer:

me, let me let you know all of this.

Jeremy Greer:

because tape is generally only there for victims that stay

Jeremy Greer:

alive, which is new to me. Like, I've seen a lot of like, crime,

Jeremy Greer:

police procedural stuff, and I did not know that. I did not

Jeremy Greer:

know that was a thing.

Marie Vigouroux:

Right, no, I didn't know that either.

Marie Vigouroux:

Frankly, yeah, that was, that was new to me. I was like, Oh,

Marie Vigouroux:

do they even do like tape anymore? Like, I don't know. I

Marie Vigouroux:

thought that that was like from old procedurals, right from

Marie Vigouroux:

before. But anyway, yeah, I was like, that's very X Files. But I

Marie Vigouroux:

don't know if it's like a thing that actually happens.

Jeremy Greer:

Is this a TV or is this a cop thing?

Marie Vigouroux:

Well there you go! But honestly, this scene,

Jeremy Greer:

I like how this is brought to light to even

Jeremy Greer:

the scene, reminded me, actually, of of going back to my

Jeremy Greer:

school after the shooting happened, and seeing, like, the

Jeremy Greer:

places where the bullets had hit, um, covered up in plywood

Jeremy Greer:

further, when they go into the house and they get into the

Jeremy Greer:

so that, like, we wouldn't see the bullet holes in the walls,

Jeremy Greer:

right? So, like, they closed the school for a couple of days,

Jeremy Greer:

they patched up the walls with plywood, and then we were

Jeremy Greer:

allowed back in. And it's just, it's interesting, because, like,

Jeremy Greer:

you know that there are people who spent time cleaning up and,

Jeremy Greer:

like, hiding right, like, the leftovers of this, like, really,

Jeremy Greer:

really traumatic event, but it's still there and, and, like, it's

Jeremy Greer:

obviously still like within us because we lived it, but it's

Jeremy Greer:

also still within the walls, or in this case, like on the the

Jeremy Greer:

front porch of this house. And that's really how this moment

Jeremy Greer:

felt to me. Like, of course, somebody clean and tried to make

Jeremy Greer:

it better, but nothing's ever going to make this better.

Jeremy Greer:

kitchen, and all the pictures on the refrigerator have been

Jeremy Greer:

turned around and it's they, Alana, I think, says, like, oh,

Jeremy Greer:

it's the crime scene cleaners that do that. And that's a very

Jeremy Greer:

- That almost seems like spiritual to me. It's not like,

Jeremy Greer:

or it was like, superstitious in some way, like, I'm cleaning the

Jeremy Greer:

house where these murders happen. I can't have these

Jeremy Greer:

people looking at me at the same time. And it's just, it's, it's

Jeremy Greer:

very strange. And like you said, it's not like we're taking away

Jeremy Greer:

any of those memories. We're literally just covering them up,

Jeremy Greer:

which is a good metaphor for, like, what you shouldn't do with

Jeremy Greer:

your emotions after, after a trauma, traumatic experience,

Jeremy Greer:

right? Like just putting the plywood on top of that stuff is

Jeremy Greer:

not going to eventually fix you. You have to. You're going to

Jeremy Greer:

have to deal with this bullet holes eventually.

Marie Vigouroux:

Right, exactly.

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail begins to question. Will about, do you do

Jeremy Greer:

this all of the time? Did you did you try to feel like my dad?

Jeremy Greer:

He said, you know, what did it feel like to be him. And Will

Jeremy Greer:

says, like, I'm talking to shadows suspended on dust. And

Jeremy Greer:

she just looks at him and says, No wonder you have nightmares.

Jeremy Greer:

And I'm like, Yes girl, finally someone is -

Marie Vigouroux:

She was so sassy about that.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah. Finally someone looks at Will and is

Jeremy Greer:

like, you need to go home and take a bath and like, have a

Jeremy Greer:

just have a relaxing day. You don't need to be out here with

Jeremy Greer:

me. This is bad for you.

Marie Vigouroux:

You need to be touching grass, my dude.

Jeremy Greer:

Absolutely. Will ask about the phone call, and

Jeremy Greer:

she says she doesn't recognize the voice. Cut to Hannibal.

Marie Vigouroux:

I don't believe her. I'm so sorry, but I do not

Marie Vigouroux:

believe that she doesn't recognize the voice because she

Marie Vigouroux:

glances at him.

Jeremy Greer:

She looks directly at him.

Marie Vigouroux:

She does! Like, of course, she knows!

Jeremy Greer:

Will is, of course, worried about the

Jeremy Greer:

copycat, like, maybe striking again or endangering Abigail.

Jeremy Greer:

They go to the living room and begin to unpack boxes, and I

Jeremy Greer:

don't really know what's going on here, besides, like, I guess

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail just like reliving some stuff. And Abigail asks if

Jeremy Greer:

anyone can catch crazy, and Alana brings up the I'm gonna

Jeremy Greer:

try this folie à deux. Did I do that?

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah!

Jeremy Greer:

Excellent. Also known as Joker two. I don't know

Jeremy Greer:

if you knew that.

Marie Vigouroux:

No, I didn't.

Jeremy Greer:

That's the name of the Joker sequel. So, yeah, Lady

Jeremy Greer:

Gaga, and I can't remember the dude who's playing the Joker is

Jeremy Greer:

the for the dude?

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, is that the same dude who played the first

Marie Vigouroux:

one?

Jeremy Greer:

Yes, yes.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh. Yeah. I don't know that I love him, but

Marie Vigouroux:

yeah. Okay, cool. That's gonna be a very, very -

Jeremy Greer:

- weird -

Marie Vigouroux:

disturbing movie.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, absolutely.

Jeremy Greer:

While this is happening, Will sees - is

Jeremy Greer:

beginning to see, like a flashes of dead Garrett Jacob Hobbs,

Jeremy Greer:

like whispering to him,

Marie Vigouroux:

I see you.

Jeremy Greer:

I see you. Hannibal points out that it's,

Jeremy Greer:

it's not considered delusional if everybody accepts your

Jeremy Greer:

delusion, like, basically, if it's accepted by one's culture

Jeremy Greer:

subculture, which is great. We

Marie Vigouroux:

It sort of feels like he's, like, advanced

Marie Vigouroux:

justifying his cannibalism because he's like, Well, in my

Marie Vigouroux:

subculture of cannibals, cannibalism is not bad

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah and I gotta say, like, the political

Jeremy Greer:

situation in 2024 right now, like, very much feels like this

Marie Vigouroux:

Right? Oh, my God.

Marie Vigouroux:

- like, oh, it's not delusional. If everybody says you're not

Marie Vigouroux:

delusional, like, that's exactly what I'm living right now.

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail realizes, like, they're doing this to look

Jeremy Greer:

for evidence, and then suggests that they relive the they

Jeremy Greer:

re-enact the crime scene. And she goes, she looks at Alana and

Jeremy Greer:

says, You can be my mom. She looks at Will, you can be my

Jeremy Greer:

dad. And she looks at Hannibal very significantly and says, and

Jeremy Greer:

you can be the voice on the phone. And it's like, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

girl, you know!

Marie Vigouroux:

Of course she knows. Again, the whole like

Marie Vigouroux:

withholding information to gain information, like it's, it's,

Marie Vigouroux:

it's, it's, it's the gas lighting all over again, like

Marie Vigouroux:

it's, it's, I Yeah!

Jeremy Greer:

It's bad.

Marie Vigouroux:

The fact that she's trying to do that to

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal Lecter, though, like, ballsy. You know.

Jeremy Greer:

She - Abigail says that they're probably never

Jeremy Greer:

going to find the bodies, because her dad would have

Jeremy Greer:

honored every part of them. She'd earlier described her dad

Jeremy Greer:

of like, making pipe glue out of elk bones. And she says those

Jeremy Greer:

girls bones are probably holding pipes together all over town,

Jeremy Greer:

which is terrifying, like that, the idea of that is just so

Jeremy Greer:

sickening and gross and also delightful. I don't like, I

Jeremy Greer:

don't like true crime shows like, I feel like I've never

Jeremy Greer:

really liked true crime because it's like, it's this shit

Jeremy Greer:

actually happened to a person I love, fake crime. Like, this is,

Jeremy Greer:

like, my shit. I'm like, Oh, this has never happened, so I am

Jeremy Greer:

a okay for just enjoying it. And like, I think even Hannibal is

Jeremy Greer:

like, that's a good idea.

Marie Vigouroux:

He was like, Oh, I never thought about that.

Marie Vigouroux:

Interesting.

Jeremy Greer:

In the middle of this, her best friend from

Jeremy Greer:

school shows up. This is another young woman, and they decide to

Jeremy Greer:

walk outside, and as they're talking, kind of catching up, as

Jeremy Greer:

girls do, the girl is telling Abigail, you know, I didn't talk

Jeremy Greer:

to the cops. I don't think that you did it. Everybody in the

Jeremy Greer:

school thinks you did it. And talk to the talk to the news

Jeremy Greer:

crews, they're all whores. When our friend Nicholas shows up and

Jeremy Greer:

like, accuses Abigail of killing his sister or helping being the

Jeremy Greer:

bait to kill to capture her, his sister and I love her BFF, just

Jeremy Greer:

like, starts picking up rocks and throwing them exactly the

Jeremy Greer:

response to an unwanted man. Like, let's - ladiesat home,

Jeremy Greer:

keep a couple of rocks in your pocket.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah. I mean, really, like this girl is doing

Marie Vigouroux:

what she can to protect her best friend. And I do love that about

Marie Vigouroux:

her.

Jeremy Greer:

Yes. This commotion caused, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

everyone to come out, including the BFFs mom, who demands that

Jeremy Greer:

she come home. This, this, this young girl calls her mom a bitch

Jeremy Greer:

and, like, take shot, cut to Hannibal.

Marie Vigouroux:

Cut to Hannibal again, like, and he doesn't like

Marie Vigouroux:

it, right? That, like, it's so rude, so rude. Yeah,

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, and you just, you have a moment of -

Marie Vigouroux:

Foreshadowing.

Jeremy Greer:

Is he gonna kill this girl? And guess what?

Jeremy Greer:

Everybody he kills this girl.

Marie Vigouroux:

There you go.

Jeremy Greer:

As they look through the woods to try to, you

Jeremy Greer:

know, any trace of Nicholas they - Hannibal finds like a rock

Jeremy Greer:

with some blood on it and then covers it up. I didn't realize

Jeremy Greer:

until my second watch through of this that he's he was going to

Jeremy Greer:

use that blood as DNA evidence to to set up Nicholas, which I

Jeremy Greer:

think is just like Hannibal operating on a whole different

Jeremy Greer:

level of serial killer at this point.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh yeah. Well, he's also trying to, like, cover

Marie Vigouroux:

up a lot of stuff, right? So, yeah, yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

We, we cut to wills Hotel. Will is a very

Jeremy Greer:

sweaty sleeper. And then he's he's dreaming about the stag

Jeremy Greer:

again, and then he's picturing himself slicing open Abigail's

Jeremy Greer:

throat. It's very vicious and very, very, very weird. And like

Jeremy Greer:

will, are you? Are you? Okay? Can we help? What do you need?

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, the answer to that question is

Marie Vigouroux:

clearly no, but I do have a much more pressing question about

Marie Vigouroux:

this sequence, but the stag like, does it - its fur looks

Marie Vigouroux:

like feathers? Is this just bad CGI, or does the stag have

Marie Vigouroux:

feathers?

Jeremy Greer:

So I've spent a lot of time in the last week,

Jeremy Greer:

going through every single clip of animal, looking for pictures

Jeremy Greer:

of the stag, because I wanted to include the stag in the video

Jeremy Greer:

that we were making. And I have to say it the stag changes over

Jeremy Greer:

time. It's going to have a dramatic change, but I didn't

Jeremy Greer:

want to include that in the video. But the stag does change

Jeremy Greer:

over time, and I think that it's definitely got, it's definitely

Jeremy Greer:

like, feathered in a way that, like a normal stag wouldn't be.

Jeremy Greer:

And I think that's the show hinting stuff at us. It's trying

Jeremy Greer:

to show us like, hey, this isn't just a normal stag, not that you

Jeremy Greer:

probably thought that when you saw it walk through the hospital

Jeremy Greer:

earlier, but like - It's definitely something weird is

Jeremy Greer:

going on with Hannah, excuse me, with Will's interpretation of

Jeremy Greer:

what this stag is.

Marie Vigouroux:

Mm, hmm. Well, there you go. Like, because,

Marie Vigouroux:

that's why, because, at first, yeah, yeah, okay, all right,

Marie Vigouroux:

I'll, I'll take that in. So the maybe the featheriness is not

Marie Vigouroux:

like bad CGI. It's just, it's actually a thing, yep.

Jeremy Greer:

Yep.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay!

Jeremy Greer:

Really difficult to talk around this stuff. Yay!

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm sure that there are listeners who are

Marie Vigouroux:

like, Oh my God, he's doing such a great job at this. And I'm

Marie Vigouroux:

like, I have absolutely no clue what's going on.

Jeremy Greer:

Now I know exactly how you feel on carrying wayward

Jeremy Greer:

with drew of just being like, I can't tell you about anything

Jeremy Greer:

that happens in season 15, even though it's directly applicable

Jeremy Greer:

to this conversation that we're having right now.

Marie Vigouroux:

He was, he was saying, not too long ago,

Marie Vigouroux:

something about how Metatron, like, he's like, I don't know if

Marie Vigouroux:

he's a coward or if he did this for the best of the world. And I

Marie Vigouroux:

was like, He's a coward.

Jeremy Greer:

He's definitely a coward.

Marie Vigouroux:

He's, for sure, a coward.

Jeremy Greer:

Fuck that guy. The next day we all go to the

Jeremy Greer:

hunting cabin. Abigail talks about how clean he kept the

Jeremy Greer:

place, how she thought that that was just because it was

Jeremy Greer:

meticulous. But now she knows like he was probably covering

Jeremy Greer:

stuff up. And she she begins to realize at some point, as she

Jeremy Greer:

says again, like he was making every part of the animal, she

Jeremy Greer:

looks back and says, Oh my god, he was feeding them to us. And I

Jeremy Greer:

put in here, and I don't know that this is a spoiler

Jeremy Greer:

necessarily, I put in here, she acts surprised, and I see your

Jeremy Greer:

reaction is in all caps to this, which is great. I love this.

Jeremy Greer:

Just a behind the scene, like, our notes are, like, right next

Jeremy Greer:

to each other, so like, we're basically talking to each other

Jeremy Greer:

in the notes. And it's very funny to read back when we do

Jeremy Greer:

these episodes. So I think that she's acting surprised here,

Jeremy Greer:

because not necessarily for anything that we know later on,

Jeremy Greer:

I think right here, like when she woke up and she realized all

Jeremy Greer:

of this stuff about her father, she realized that he'd killed

Jeremy Greer:

these girls, and she, you know, she was obviously remembering

Jeremy Greer:

killing deer, killing animals with him. I think she is

Jeremy Greer:

genuinely acting surprised here so she can make herself look

Jeremy Greer:

more innocent, like I think she is cognizant of what Freddie

Jeremy Greer:

told her, that what she says to people is going to dictate the

Jeremy Greer:

rest of her life, and so she doesn't want to assume. She

Jeremy Greer:

wants them to see her realize it, even though she probably

Jeremy Greer:

realized it like as she was taking all this information and

Jeremy Greer:

when she woke up in the hospital. So that's why I put

Jeremy Greer:

acts in here. I don't know if you get the same vibe. I'm

Jeremy Greer:

curious what you think about this.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, again, like, especially the first time

Marie Vigouroux:

that I watched it, I was like, well, she's still in the process

Marie Vigouroux:

of putting all of this together. Like, this is a really, really

Marie Vigouroux:

big trauma, and so it, it can take some time to put stuff

Marie Vigouroux:

together, even though, like, it might seem really obvious, and

Marie Vigouroux:

so I didn't, it didn't feel to me like she was acting

Marie Vigouroux:

surprised. But now, yeah, I don't I again. I don't know. I

Marie Vigouroux:

don't know anymore.

Jeremy Greer:

Made you so suspicious of Abigail. I didn't

Jeremy Greer:

even mean to she's such a sweet girl. Look how she helped out

Jeremy Greer:

Sam and supernatural. She was so nice.

Marie Vigouroux:

She was great. But, but, I mean, I don't think

Marie Vigouroux:

it's you that made me really suspicious of Abigail. It's that

Marie Vigouroux:

second rewatch of it where I was like, Oh my God, because you

Marie Vigouroux:

know, stuff happens at the end of this episode.

Jeremy Greer:

Her, her second realization is that if, if he

Jeremy Greer:

had just killed her, he wouldn't have had to kill all those other

Jeremy Greer:

girls, and Alana immediately steps in. It's like, we

Jeremy Greer:

absolutely do not know that. Like, you cannot blame yourself

Jeremy Greer:

for the actions of your father. Again, Alana, the only one in

Jeremy Greer:

the room who gives a shit about Abigail's state of mind.

Jeremy Greer:

But this is all interrupted because a drop of

Marie Vigouroux:

The voice of reason.

Marie Vigouroux:

blood falls on her, and as everybody rushes upstairs, we

Marie Vigouroux:

see Abigail's friend from earlier this time mounted on the

Marie Vigouroux:

antlers, just like the copycat killer did with Nicholas's

Marie Vigouroux:

sister. And this is horrifying, of course. And then this turns

Marie Vigouroux:

into a crime scene. Jack arrives, he does a real rude

Marie Vigouroux:

brush by of Abigail, who is like, being comforted by Alana

Marie Vigouroux:

outside. He just, like, gives her a real shitty look, and then

Marie Vigouroux:

walks in, and I'm like, Jack, can you at least, like, pretend

Marie Vigouroux:

that this works like, presumably, this is a teenage

Marie Vigouroux:

girl in high school. Like, I mean, what do you - Why are you

Marie Vigouroux:

so shitty to the to the high schooler?

Marie Vigouroux:

Especially for Abigail? Like, it's trauma on

Marie Vigouroux:

trauma on trauma. Like, again, assuming that she's really

Marie Vigouroux:

innocent about this. Like, you know, found out. Like, saw her

Marie Vigouroux:

dad kill her mom. Was almost killed by her dad, then found

Marie Vigouroux:

out that her dad was a serial killer, then found out that her

Marie Vigouroux:

dad was feeding her like people, and now she finds out that, like

Marie Vigouroux:

her best friend is like, dead, right? And it's just what an

Marie Vigouroux:

awful place to be for this girl.

Jeremy Greer:

I and, you know, I think too, pretending that I

Jeremy Greer:

don't know anything about the rest of the series if I put

Jeremy Greer:

myself in the mind state of Abigail even, let's assume that

Jeremy Greer:

the worst Jack Crawford thinks about her as true. That's still

Jeremy Greer:

a really fucked up thing to live through, like your father, like

Jeremy Greer:

kind of basically brainwashing you to do this and normalizing

Jeremy Greer:

this kind of activity would still make you have these, you

Jeremy Greer:

know, wild reactions, wild emotional reactions after you

Jeremy Greer:

get out of that situation, like there's no, like, there's no

Jeremy Greer:

good way to go with Abigail here, like she's, she's

Jeremy Greer:

definitely going to be a someone who has to work through a lot of

Jeremy Greer:

stuff in her life.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, definitely.

Jeremy Greer:

Will is upstairs, looking at the body. There's

Jeremy Greer:

some DNA on the teeth. He says that it's the copycat's victim,

Jeremy Greer:

and that he believes that it's the boy that confronted Abigail,

Jeremy Greer:

Nicholas. Jack is really angry here, and it's frustrating to me

Jeremy Greer:

that Jack is angry at Will because he says, you know, you

Jeremy Greer:

told me this killer would never kill again. You told me that

Jeremy Greer:

this killer would never do anything like this. What else

Jeremy Greer:

are you wrong about? And I'm like, he didn't even want this

Jeremy Greer:

job. Jack. Like,

Marie Vigouroux:

Jack, isn't it your job to investigate shit?

Marie Vigouroux:

Also, like, what, where were you while will was doing all this

Marie Vigouroux:

work?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah. Like, is he your only behavior guy? like,

Jeremy Greer:

there should - you should have more behavior -

Marie Vigouroux:

You should, like, you should definitely have

Marie Vigouroux:

more behavior guys!

Jeremy Greer:

Definitely have more behavior guys like, Mary

Jeremy Greer:

has a fish guy. Jack needs a lot more behavior guys.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, you got a great dirt guy, so, you know, or

Marie Vigouroux:

a better dirt guy. But anyway, I just think that what's really

Marie Vigouroux:

upsetting about this is that, like, Will wasn't wrong, right,

Marie Vigouroux:

but it's Hannibal that's like, Well, anyway, I think it's

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal that's, like, creating all kinds of chaos around him to

Marie Vigouroux:

make it seem like he was wrong.

Jeremy Greer:

Yes, and, you know, the DNA evidence is, like,

Jeremy Greer:

obviously planted, like we saw, we saw Hannibal. Like, do that.

Jeremy Greer:

And like, Hannibal is basically saying, like, Nicholas killed

Jeremy Greer:

this girl and and his own sister, right? Like he's

Jeremy Greer:

obviously emotionally disturbed and, and like-

Marie Vigouroux:

He's like, let's try to, like, dissociate

Marie Vigouroux:

myself from all of this.

Jeremy Greer:

I know, I know I joked earlier about, like, we

Jeremy Greer:

haven't actually seen Hannibal do anything, but like that dude

Jeremy Greer:

smiled when Will said that his killing was art, right? Like,

Jeremy Greer:

there's no way that he didn't kill that that girl in the field

Marie Vigouroux:

Of course. Allegedly!

Jeremy Greer:

I was about to say. Like, allegedly, but also

Jeremy Greer:

like that smile.

Marie Vigouroux:

Alledgedly, but also really,

Jeremy Greer:

And I just think that, like, just Hannibal, like,

Jeremy Greer:

just using everything around him to to, you know, cover things

Jeremy Greer:

up, to what's the word that I'm looking for, to, like,

Jeremy Greer:

basically, just confuse things in general, like that, acting as

Jeremy Greer:

this agent of chaos is, you know, that's what he's doing.

Marie Vigouroux:

Too murk up the water, I guess -

Jeremy Greer:

That's what I was looking for.

Marie Vigouroux:

- is the image that's coming up for me, or to

Marie Vigouroux:

blend the vegetables in the soup, right? That's what he's

Marie Vigouroux:

doing.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, absolutely. It's a great, great reference

Jeremy Greer:

back to a potage. And yeah, Hannibal and Will are both

Jeremy Greer:

insistent that Abigail isn't a killer, but they're definitely

Jeremy Greer:

worried that she could be a target of one. And I think I

Jeremy Greer:

just read your notes instead of my own. So that's -

Marie Vigouroux:

No, that's fine, that's totally fine. But,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, it like it felt like a threat to me, right? Like he's

Marie Vigouroux:

going to kill her, right? Like she could be the target of one.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, who is a killer like Hannibal, so, yeah, because she

Marie Vigouroux:

could, like, if she doesn't behave the way that I would like

Marie Vigouroux:

her to, then I'm going to eat her.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah! Like, based on what we've seen, like he's

Jeremy Greer:

got to be thinking that Abigail knows it's him that was on the

Jeremy Greer:

phone. So, like, that's a direct threat to his well being, and

Jeremy Greer:

he's not going to let like that go. Jack orders Hannibal to get

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail out of there, but he wants will to stay and work the

Jeremy Greer:

crime scene. He's still very mad. This feels very like

Jeremy Greer:

vindictive to Will for me, Hannibal drives her back to her

Jeremy Greer:

house. There's a protesters outside. They've got the whole

Jeremy Greer:

place cordoned off. Somehow. Freddie Lounds has snuck in

Jeremy Greer:

again. She makes a real weird comment to Hannibal, of like,

Jeremy Greer:

I'm not the only one peeping through the windows. He asked

Jeremy Greer:

her directly about Nicholas, and she uses, she tries to use it

Jeremy Greer:

for for game. It says, like, tell me why you want to know,

Jeremy Greer:

and I'll tell you if I've seen him and Hannibal just, like,

Jeremy Greer:

turns around and leaves. He's like, I'm not dealing with you

Jeremy Greer:

today for anyone. So I got other shit I got to do. I've got, I've

Jeremy Greer:

got a daughter to gaslight. I need to get I need to get out of

Marie Vigouroux:

Got a daughter and a boyfriend, a potential

Marie Vigouroux:

here.

Marie Vigouroux:

boyfriend, to gaslight. I have to make this man love me. And so

Marie Vigouroux:

I think before that is where the mother of the BFF shows up

Marie Vigouroux:

accusing Abigail of killing her daughter, right? And I just

Marie Vigouroux:

found that in that moment, like the horror of the unsaid in this

Marie Vigouroux:

show, or like the double speak, or like the two stories that are

Marie Vigouroux:

happening is just so present in that moment, because the mother

Marie Vigouroux:

is screaming and crying about her daughter being murdered in

Marie Vigouroux:

the arms of the man who killed her daughter

Jeremy Greer:

Right? Awful.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, my God.

Jeremy Greer:

Awful.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes.

Jeremy Greer:

Awful.

Marie Vigouroux:

But that's why I'm saying like, I can handle

Marie Vigouroux:

like, the gruesome stuff, but like this is, this is a lot like

Marie Vigouroux:

TM.

Jeremy Greer:

And again, I am sorry for everything that's

Jeremy Greer:

going on. Hannibal and Alana are talking to the police outside.

Jeremy Greer:

Meanwhile, Abigail is very upset at going through, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

seeing her best friend died, being accused of her of their

Jeremy Greer:

best friend's murder. She's crying. She's hugging this

Jeremy Greer:

pillow, and as she realizes, like, again, that phrase, like,

Jeremy Greer:

we're gonna honor every part of her. She grabs a knife on the

Jeremy Greer:

table. That knife is in an evidence box, so it's like a big

Jeremy Greer:

hunting knife, obviously. And she cuts open the pillow, and

Jeremy Greer:

inside the pillow is human hair. And again, there's a we haven't

Jeremy Greer:

talked about, the awfulness of, like, secretly feeding somebody

Jeremy Greer:

human flesh, which is awful.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes.

Jeremy Greer:

And this is, like, almost, it's not quite the same

Jeremy Greer:

level, but it's also like, like, oh, the pillows that we have in

Jeremy Greer:

our house have, like, human remains in them. Like, that's so

Jeremy Greer:

awful. And so it's so bad, it's just so gross.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, that's why I'm saying, like, I know

Marie Vigouroux:

that Abigail is thinking about her dad as a loving person, but

Marie Vigouroux:

really, when you step back for a second, like, I don't, I don't

Marie Vigouroux:

believe it, right? So whether it's a story that she has to

Marie Vigouroux:

tell herself in order to, like, make sense of what happened,

Marie Vigouroux:

that's one possibility. The other possibility is that she

Marie Vigouroux:

was just lying about it, or just like, you know, again, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

keeping in mind that Abigail manipulates people, like, that's

Marie Vigouroux:

maybe something that she's doing in that moment. I don't, I don't

Marie Vigouroux:

quite know.

Jeremy Greer:

And there's also, you know, again, putting my,

Jeremy Greer:

I've never seen this show before, pat on. We can think

Jeremy Greer:

that it's like Jack Crawford's side, which is she was an active

Jeremy Greer:

participant in these killings. Or we can think that she's

Jeremy Greer:

completely innocent. But there's also a middle ground of, like,

Jeremy Greer:

maybe she was helping, but she didn't realize what quite the

Jeremy Greer:

extent of what her father was doing, right? Like, and there's

Jeremy Greer:

so like, some of this could be a very real and awful, wretched

Jeremy Greer:

reaction to realizing what she had a hand in. And some of it

Jeremy Greer:

could just be like, Oh, crap, I've got to pretend in front of

Jeremy Greer:

these cops so they don't arrest me. And I find that's what's

Jeremy Greer:

fascinating about this character, is like, you can go a

Jeremy Greer:

lot of different ways with it.

Marie Vigouroux:

And so, so here's the thing in this

Marie Vigouroux:

particular moment, right? Because she's - I can totally

Marie Vigouroux:

see the argument that she's faking it that, or like that

Marie Vigouroux:

she's exaggerating her reactions. Or, you know, like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

can see all of it. I can also see that the reactions are

Marie Vigouroux:

genuine. So, like, I see the full spectrum of it. But in this

Marie Vigouroux:

moment, she's really alone in the house, and she's really

Marie Vigouroux:

crying and she's very distraught, and I don't know

Marie Vigouroux:

that she would be doing that if she wasn't genuinely upset, and

Marie Vigouroux:

that's why, like, like, if it was a show to somebody else,

Marie Vigouroux:

like there was nobody to witness this show, so like it felt

Marie Vigouroux:

genuine to me, like I'm trying to hang on to hope that she's

Marie Vigouroux:

not a terrible person, but yeah, again, projecting my own stuff

Marie Vigouroux:

and hoping that She doesn't turn out to be a serial killer.

Jeremy Greer:

Unfortunately, everybody is a terrible person

Jeremy Greer:

in this show. Very few exceptions.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

My girl, Beverly, I think, is probably the best

Jeremy Greer:

character that and as far as like, as far as like, people who

Jeremy Greer:

don't do anything bad, is probably the only one that wins.

Marie Vigouroux:

Very cool.

Jeremy Greer:

Anyway they go to, I don't know why I'm talking

Jeremy Greer:

about Beverly. I'm so sorry. I'm just rambling.

Marie Vigouroux:

No, it's fine. I'm like, Oh, I'm excited to be

Marie Vigouroux:

Beverly, then.

Jeremy Greer:

We met her. She was the one that called - kind

Jeremy Greer:

of messed with, with will at the shooting range and at the crime

Jeremy Greer:

scene.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh yeah, yeah. I like her. She's funny.

Jeremy Greer:

Nicholas shows up as she is realizing that she's

Jeremy Greer:

holding - Abigail realizes she's holding a handful of human hair,

Jeremy Greer:

and he he says he's not, he says, like, I'm not here to hurt

Jeremy Greer:

you. I'm not here to kill you. I didn't kill my sister. And it's

Jeremy Greer:

like, this weird, like, I'm not, I'm not here to hurt you. But

Jeremy Greer:

like, she runs away. He grabs her and slams her against a

Jeremy Greer:

wall.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah

Jeremy Greer:

And she's still holding the knife, and she,

Jeremy Greer:

like, instinctively hits him in the gut, and then, like, it

Jeremy Greer:

looks like, she pulls the knife up and like, literally guts the

Jeremy Greer:

dude.

Marie Vigouroux:

Right.

Jeremy Greer:

He falls down. And then she starts, like, freaking

Jeremy Greer:

out. We switch over to Hannibal, who is walking in and sees,

Jeremy Greer:

like, what happened, and very quickly rushes up to Alana,

Jeremy Greer:

knocks her head against the wall, and, like, grabs her on

Jeremy Greer:

the way down, and like, you know, sets her down gently and

Jeremy Greer:

make sure she's okay. And then we realized, like, I feel like,

Jeremy Greer:

this is the first time we've seen Hannibal do something like

Jeremy Greer:

this, like, physically do something like, instead, it's

Jeremy Greer:

this whole time it's been like, oh, cooking. Like, I'm cooking

Jeremy Greer:

some lungs. But like, whose lungs are they? We don't know.

Jeremy Greer:

Could be a goat, whatever. This is the first time we've seen him

Jeremy Greer:

do something violent. And it's the casual nature of this, like

Marie Vigouroux:

Hmm, I think, I think you, you use the word that

Marie Vigouroux:

the the quickness and the practicality makes it all the

Marie Vigouroux:

worst for me, right? Like, just the, just the idea that he can

Marie Vigouroux:

do this so quickly to somebody that you thought he was, you

Marie Vigouroux:

know, if not friends, then colleagues with.

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm gravitating towards, which is, like, casual. This felt so

Marie Vigouroux:

casual, but, yeah, it just feels like he like, it feels like a

Marie Vigouroux:

business thing, like, Oh, let me just do this thing. Let me just,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, turn off the water. Like, it really feels like a means to

Marie Vigouroux:

an end, which, again, like we're talking about manipulation a lot

Marie Vigouroux:

in this episode. And this is, this is a form of, like, in this

Marie Vigouroux:

case, physical manipulation. Like he - Yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

it's so bad.

Marie Vigouroux:

So weird.

Jeremy Greer:

It's so bad.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah

Jeremy Greer:

Um, is it too late to change your theme song to is

Jeremy Greer:

it casual now by Chapel Roan? Is that - is it too - can we do

Jeremy Greer:

that? Jake, we have a new project.

Marie Vigouroux:

Jake! It's an interesting one that's gonna be,

Marie Vigouroux:

actually, that would be a lot of fun to change the lyrics too,

Marie Vigouroux:

because there's some really fun ones in there with the dinner

Marie Vigouroux:

table and everything.

Jeremy Greer:

Absolutely it would be that thing. I've done

Jeremy Greer:

it several times now where, like, we pick a song for monster

Jeremy Greer:

or the week or whatever, and then I've realized, like, I'm

Jeremy Greer:

not changing any of the lyrics, because I feel like they're so

Jeremy Greer:

they just fit already. So Autumn's like, you have to make

Jeremy Greer:

it funny or sad. You can't just leave the same lyrics. And I'm

Jeremy Greer:

like, okay, okay, I'll change them, I promise.

Marie Vigouroux:

Thank you Autumn for, like, helping you

Marie Vigouroux:

being able to make these, all of these masterpieces. So thank

Marie Vigouroux:

you, Autumn. We appreciate you.

Jeremy Greer:

We've talked about manipulation and gaslighting

Jeremy Greer:

this episode, and here is at its worst. Hannibal rushes over and

Jeremy Greer:

immediately tells her, or tells Abigail this was not self

Jeremy Greer:

defense, and says you butchered him. If people find out about

Jeremy Greer:

this, you'll be accused of helping your father, which is a

Jeremy Greer:

you know, she's in shock, like, regardless of what we believe

Jeremy Greer:

her mindset to be, or like what she has done in the past, or

Jeremy Greer:

helped her father or not, like she's seen her best friend

Jeremy Greer:

impaled on antlers. She's been accused of that murderer by her

Jeremy Greer:

best friend's mother. She's come in here, she's been attacked.

Jeremy Greer:

She's slaughtered this boy, and she's just in shock. And so

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal saying, this is like he - She's shaking and just looking

Jeremy Greer:

at him.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeha. Oh, yeah. It's, it's a lot, because this

Marie Vigouroux:

is where I think Alana's point from earlier comes in about

Marie Vigouroux:

like, the fact that she could start reenacting elements of the

Marie Vigouroux:

trauma without realizing it, and the fact that she cuts open

Marie Vigouroux:

Nicholas, the same way that she cut open the doe, is like, so

Marie Vigouroux:

telling to me, like, obviously, obviously, now I'm a little less

Marie Vigouroux:

sure about my understanding of this moment, but yeah, like it,

Marie Vigouroux:

I think - like this really made me think of like, the ways in

Marie Vigouroux:

which we will do things that our parents used to do without

Marie Vigouroux:

realizing that that's what they used to do. And then, like, one

Marie Vigouroux:

of your siblings is gonna be like, Oh my god. Dad does the

Marie Vigouroux:

same thing, and it's like, Oh, fuck. Like, no!

Jeremy Greer:

I didn't mean to do that at all, absolutely

Jeremy Greer:

didn't mean to imitating this dude just came.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, absolutely.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, there you go. And so, like, it's, it's

Marie Vigouroux:

obviously at smaller scales, like in for most other people,

Marie Vigouroux:

but in this case, it's, like, it has to do with murder and

Marie Vigouroux:

killing people. So obviously, like, it's much more dramatic.

Jeremy Greer:

He gives her a choice, and basically says she

Jeremy Greer:

can either confess and everything, and, you know, deal

Jeremy Greer:

with everything that comes with that, or they can hide the body

Jeremy Greer:

together. I find this fascinating one from just like

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal as absolutely confident that he can hide a body when

Jeremy Greer:

there's like, a full police compliment outside, like he has

Jeremy Greer:

no stress about this whatsoever, right? Like he's like, I could

Jeremy Greer:

definitely do this. Not even a question.

Marie Vigouroux:

And again, Abigail, in her state of shock,

Marie Vigouroux:

doesn't question that.

Jeremy Greer:

No, not at all. And we cut to a little while

Jeremy Greer:

later, while they're doctoring Alana in the ambulance, who does

Jeremy Greer:

not remember anything. She just remembers like a rushing figure.

Jeremy Greer:

And then straight to black. Jack Crawford is now totally on board

Jeremy Greer:

that this is Nicholas. It says that he got away, but they'll

Jeremy Greer:

catch him. There's, there's some evidence here where they they

Jeremy Greer:

say that, like Abigail had some of his DNA under her fingernails

Jeremy Greer:

as she tried to catch him, or something. So again, like that,

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal suddenly manipulating, like they obviously like,

Jeremy Greer:

planted this evidence on Abigail to make their story work again,

Jeremy Greer:

with the manipulation.

Marie Vigouroux:

Her whole her whole hands were covered in

Marie Vigouroux:

blood. So somehow they had to make sure, like, you know, there

Marie Vigouroux:

had to be an explanation for it as well, right?

Jeremy Greer:

And why does Hannibal have a carpet cleaner

Jeremy Greer:

out? Like, what is Hannibal doing in there?

Marie Vigouroux:

But there you go. Also, like, I was like, Oh

Marie Vigouroux:

my God, but all of the blood stains on the carpet, what did

Marie Vigouroux:

he do?

Jeremy Greer:

What are we doing? We're just stuff - we just put a

Jeremy Greer:

pile of pillows on top, I guess, where nobody's going -

Marie Vigouroux:

With human hair.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, so gross. We - Will just, I love this because

Jeremy Greer:

Will's just, like, I gotta, I'm going home. Like, I'm done.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's like, that, that's me all the time.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, that's very relatable. I'm like, I just always want to be

Marie Vigouroux:

home.

Jeremy Greer:

On the, on the, on the scale of places to be home

Jeremy Greer:

is probably like, gonna always be at a 10 for me, and like

Jeremy Greer:

everything else is gonna be below 10.

Marie Vigouroux:

Exactly.

Jeremy Greer:

We skip ahead a little bit, and it's night time.

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal is writing in his office, and he senses Abigail

Jeremy Greer:

coming in. Uh, he says, you know, oh, they called me and you

Jeremy Greer:

jumped the fence, and he's basically expecting her. And she

Jeremy Greer:

says, you know, we didn't, I didn't want to go to sleep. She

Jeremy Greer:

doesn't want to have nightmares. And she's worried because they

Jeremy Greer:

didn't honor any part of him, referring to Nicholas, yeah,

Jeremy Greer:

she's obviously, like, now that she's got some distance from it,

Jeremy Greer:

very disturbed at their activities.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, and, and it's also that she's like,

Marie Vigouroux:

going, like, again, she is doing the same thing that her father

Marie Vigouroux:

was doing, right? Because, like, the whole honoring parts,

Marie Vigouroux:

honoring every part, was supposed to be about animals,

Marie Vigouroux:

right? That you're killing, which is like something that

Marie Vigouroux:

human beings have been doing for millennia at this point. But the

Marie Vigouroux:

fact that she now knows that her dad was also applying this logic

Marie Vigouroux:

to people, she is now applying this logic to people, and it's

Marie Vigouroux:

like, it's so chilling, because she is - whether she was before

Marie Vigouroux:

or not, now she's literally following in the footsteps of

Marie Vigouroux:

her dad. And I'm just like, oh, no, don't do that.

Jeremy Greer:

No! Don't do it, girl. Don't do it.

Jeremy Greer:

Exactly.

Jeremy Greer:

It's hard to watch. It's really difficult to watch.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's so hard to watch. I think that was the part

Marie Vigouroux:

that, like, really got me. It's that, the fact that despite, I

Marie Vigouroux:

mean, despite everything, even if she hadn't participated in

Marie Vigouroux:

this before, she is now in it, because of her father, because

Marie Vigouroux:

of Hannibal, because of older men around her who have

Marie Vigouroux:

manipulated her into these things. And I'm just like, oh,

Marie Vigouroux:

this is really hard.

Jeremy Greer:

It's like, I said, it's just difficult to watch

Jeremy Greer:

because it's, it's so - Abigail is a young girl, and I think

Jeremy Greer:

anytime on these TV shows, the instinct that people have is to

Jeremy Greer:

protect. You know, these, these young women who have been in bad

Jeremy Greer:

situations, and Hannibal is doing like, the exact opposite

Jeremy Greer:

of that, which is like, pretending to be the protector

Jeremy Greer:

while still forcing her to, like, rely on him. Like, this

Jeremy Greer:

is, it's classic Predator behavior, and it's awful, awful

Jeremy Greer:

to see it to done so well on television, right? Like, even

Jeremy Greer:

though this is all fake, like, he's not actually, like, you

Jeremy Greer:

know, I'm sure he's her and him have a great relationship, and

Jeremy Greer:

they're super happy. You know what I'm saying? Like, but it's,

Jeremy Greer:

it's still just, it makes the skin crawl, especially when

Jeremy Greer:

there's a back and forth, when she realizes, like, Oh, you're

Jeremy Greer:

the person that called my dad. And, you know, she says

Jeremy Greer:

something to the extent of like, you know, you're, you're just

Jeremy Greer:

like my dad. And he looks at her, and there's this with

Jeremy Greer:

absolute coldness. He says, I'm nothing like your dad. And I

Jeremy Greer:

think that Abigail interprets that a different way than

Jeremy Greer:

anybody else that knows the story of Hannibal. I think

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail is like, I think she's saying that like, oh, I don't

Jeremy Greer:

just kill these girls. But Hannibal's saying it like, I am

Jeremy Greer:

so much more involved than your father, like I'm so much worse.

Marie Vigouroux:

I make this into art. That's what my future

Marie Vigouroux:

boyfriend said. And she also says like, you're glad I killed

Marie Vigouroux:

him, which is kind of making me feel like Abigail is also, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

hypersensitive to to people's like reactions, like she's able

Marie Vigouroux:

to tell how they're feeling. And again, I think that that could

Marie Vigouroux:

be a sign of trauma. Because again, like, in order to

Marie Vigouroux:

survive, sometimes, like, you have to be aware of how

Marie Vigouroux:

everybody feels in order to, like, navigate all of that, and

Marie Vigouroux:

she's able to tell that Hannibal is glad that she killed this

Marie Vigouroux:

boy. She can't really make out why, which I think it's because,

Marie Vigouroux:

well, now I have one over on her right, like, she's not gonna

Marie Vigouroux:

tell about me calling because I covered up her murder, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

But like, she doesn't quite know what to make of this.

Jeremy Greer:

And it's, it's worse too, because, like, as she

Jeremy Greer:

comes to this realization of like, they're protecting each

Jeremy Greer:

other, like she says, I'll keep your secret, or he says, I will

Jeremy Greer:

keep your secret, and she says, I will keep yours. And the the

Jeremy Greer:

lack of understanding that she is not anywhere near on

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal's level at this point is just It's so awful to watch,

Jeremy Greer:

like it's so heartbreaking. Like your heart just goes out to

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail so much because you're like, oh, this, this dude does

Jeremy Greer:

not need to have an interest in this young girl. And like you

Jeremy Greer:

said, like, it's because of all of this trauma that he's

Jeremy Greer:

interested in her. It's because of all Will's empathic ability

Jeremy Greer:

and his that almost the disability of having to retain

Jeremy Greer:

his feelings throughout these people that he can be empathic

Jeremy Greer:

with. That's what interests Hannibal and will and now it's

Jeremy Greer:

something not similar, but it's something like, there's a

Jeremy Greer:

different angle with Abigail, but it's something that

Jeremy Greer:

interested him, like he's interested in these damaged

Jeremy Greer:

people and what he can do to them and what how he can control

Jeremy Greer:

them. And it's very much control. I think that's like,

Jeremy Greer:

something we're going to learn over the next few episodes. It's

Jeremy Greer:

like, it's absolutely about control.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, it makes sense. Look at the way his

Marie Vigouroux:

office is organized, like, look at the way his desk is, look at

Marie Vigouroux:

the way he dresses, look at his cars. Like it all makes sense.

Marie Vigouroux:

And I, you know, I think that there's a part of me that kind

Marie Vigouroux:

of wonders, you know, if Hannibal isn't also taking

Marie Vigouroux:

Abigail under his wing in any way, shape or form, because he's

Marie Vigouroux:

sort of seeing the potential that she has as a killer.

Marie Vigouroux:

Because, like, like, recognizes, like, like, she sees the serial

Marie Vigouroux:

killer in him, and he sees the potential serial killer in her.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like, I'm wondering if there isn't, like, a little bit of

Marie Vigouroux:

that in there too.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah. And you know, just coming from, like,

Jeremy Greer:

the lore of the books, like Hannibal is super interested in

Jeremy Greer:

interested in serial killers in general. So, like, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

this is, it's not really a spoiler for anybody that's seen,

Jeremy Greer:

like, Silence of the Lambs, right? Like, that's kind of one

Jeremy Greer:

of the whole premises of the movie. And it's going to be

Jeremy Greer:

really interesting to watch how he interacts with Abigail over

Jeremy Greer:

the course of the season, and what he does to mess with her. I

Jeremy Greer:

guess that's all I will say.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh man!

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah. Hey, Mary, have I apologized to you about

Jeremy Greer:

this, this episode? Have I said I'm sorry?

Jeremy Greer:

Oh no, yeah. Well, like I said, Rachel told me that I would find

Jeremy Greer:

it difficult to see Abigail's storyline. So, oh man.

Jeremy Greer:

This is a rough one to watch. I think it's, it's very

Jeremy Greer:

interesting, because, again, as somebody who had read the

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal books and watched the movies coming into this as it

Jeremy Greer:

was airing live on TV, and like this being such a dramatic turn,

Jeremy Greer:

and just like making the character even more evil than I

Jeremy Greer:

could possibly imagine, I was like, Oh, this shit was gonna

Jeremy Greer:

put us in for it like, I am I am in danger. What is happening

Jeremy Greer:

right now? I am in danger.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, it's like, oh, no, I can see where

Marie Vigouroux:

this is going. And I don't like it.

Jeremy Greer:

Do not like it. Do you have any last thoughts

Jeremy Greer:

before we go to our review section?

Marie Vigouroux:

No, I was gonna ask you, actually, about how you

Marie Vigouroux:

liked this episode or not?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, I think it's, I think it's a really

Jeremy Greer:

great episode of television, right? It's, it's very hard to

Jeremy Greer:

watch in places, but I think in just in terms of a episode of

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal that I'm enjoying, then I absolutely love it. Like, like

Jeremy Greer:

I said, I don't, I don't really dig on True Crime stuff, but

Jeremy Greer:

like, fake crime, fake fake serial killers. I'm all about

Jeremy Greer:

like, all of this stuff is like, catnip for me. Like, I love this

Jeremy Greer:

weird manipulation stuff. I love Hannibal doing all of this,

Jeremy Greer:

these weird killings just to confuse and cause chaos. Will

Jeremy Greer:

doing his best to try to keep up, and then Jack caught in the

Jeremy Greer:

middle. All of this stuff is super good to me. I love it so

Jeremy Greer:

much.

Marie Vigouroux:

I especially like the power play that's

Marie Vigouroux:

currently happening that Hannibal is trying to, like, set

Marie Vigouroux:

up. Ooh, very creepy, very lovely.

Jeremy Greer:

So when you say power play, you mean between him

Jeremy Greer:

and Will, or between will and Jack, or all of the above?

Marie Vigouroux:

All of the above, especially the one with

Marie Vigouroux:

Abigail as well, with Alana, with Freddie Lounds, with

Marie Vigouroux:

everybody, really.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah. It must be like, like, imagine meeting a

Jeremy Greer:

guy like Hannibal, and like, just becoming, like, casual

Jeremy Greer:

social friends, and then, like, realizing, like, Oh, I just

Jeremy Greer:

never did anything weird around that guy. So I just, he just

Jeremy Greer:

happened to not kill me. It's got to be so weird, so weird.

Marie Vigouroux:

So weird. So weird.

Jeremy Greer:

Well, let's move into the review section.

Marie Vigouroux:

So I am going to give this episode four stars,

Marie Vigouroux:

because with its intriguing flavors and chilling aftertaste

Marie Vigouroux:

the smooth and striking potage leaves you wondering if there

Marie Vigouroux:

weren't any undisclosed ingredients.

Jeremy Greer:

I am also going to give this episode four stars.

Jeremy Greer:

The potage was tasty and had hidden flavors that, over time,

Jeremy Greer:

revealed themselves, as if the ingredients wanted to hide

Jeremy Greer:

something from us at the beginning.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oooooh. Oh no. Oh no.

Jeremy Greer:

With that, we have reached the end of Rude Eats

Jeremy Greer:

episode three. I'd like to thank our music guy?

Marie Vigouroux:

Our music guy, yeah!

Jeremy Greer:

Our bops guy, Jake Lionheart for creating an

Jeremy Greer:

incredible theme for us. I'd like to thank Alexdreamsart for

Jeremy Greer:

creating our incredible cover art. Also like to thank Katie

Jeremy Greer:

for helping us out on titling some of that stuff for us. We

Jeremy Greer:

really appreciate that. At this point, we still haven't launched

Jeremy Greer:

the podcast, which is really strange. But thank you for

Jeremy Greer:

everybody who's been leaving reviews, hopefully positive

Jeremy Greer:

ones.

Marie Vigouroux:

Please leave reviews!

Jeremy Greer:

Thank you for, you know, taking your time out of

Jeremy Greer:

your day to talk about this with your friends on social media and

Jeremy Greer:

sharing links around. That's very appreciative. We are very

Jeremy Greer:

appreciative for people for doing that. We are a independent

Jeremy Greer:

podcast. We're not going to ever have ads. All we ask is that you

Jeremy Greer:

spread the show around and chat with us. I would tell you the

Jeremy Greer:

Gmail, but our Gmail is currently suspended, so we're

Jeremy Greer:

working that out right now.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, let's hold on to that for a sec.

Jeremy Greer:

In the meantime, Mary, where can people find you?

Marie Vigouroux:

People can find me on Twitter @maryturner_, and

Marie Vigouroux:

they can also, actually, no, that's really where I am. If you

Marie Vigouroux:

want to talk to me, go on Twitter, unfortunately. What

Jeremy Greer:

I am @jgreer on Twitter. You can go to

Jeremy Greer:

about you, Jeremy?

Jeremy Greer:

creepybutnecessary.cool to find my other podcast. And you should

Jeremy Greer:

also go to carryingwayward.com to find Mary's other podcast.

Jeremy Greer:

And we will be back in a couple of weeks with more Hannibal. Bon

Jeremy Greer:

appetit.

Marie Vigouroux:

Bon appetit.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, my God, all I want is to go watch the next episode.

Jeremy Greer:

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I'll be

Jeremy Greer:

curious how this I don't think this one's gonna be as

Jeremy Greer:

emotionally I don't know. I don't, I don't know. I don't

Jeremy Greer:

know you well enough. I don't know you obviously well enough.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, this is the first time we've really talked in this

Jeremy Greer:

depth. So I don't know what's gonna affect you on this. The

Jeremy Greer:

Abigail stuff is going to be interesting, though, so I'm

Jeremy Greer:

excited about it.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, so that's the thing. Like I know - so from

Marie Vigouroux:

like osmosis, or cultural osmosis, as like as Drew calls

Marie Vigouroux:

it, I knew that like Will and Hannibal were kind of gonna

Marie Vigouroux:

become like dads to - or surrogate dads to somebody. I

Marie Vigouroux:

didn't think that it would be so early on, and I didn't think

Marie Vigouroux:

that it would be Abigail, but I guess that's kind of what's

Marie Vigouroux:

about to happen, unless there's somebody else that they become

Marie Vigouroux:

surrogate dads to later on, which would be a weird nickel to

Marie Vigouroux:

have twice?

Jeremy Greer:

Yes, it would be weird. No, you can. You can

Jeremy Greer:

pretty much stick with Abigail for season one. I think -

Marie Vigouroux:

For seasonseason one? Oh no!

Jeremy Greer:

There's - things change, things, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

things, things evolve over time. You know, you never know what's

Jeremy Greer:

gonna happen in season two. I don't, you know, I don't. I

Jeremy Greer:

didn't go through season two because I didn't want to pull,

Jeremy Greer:

like, spoilery clips from season two to put in the video,

Jeremy Greer:

although I did cheat and put two in there, but it doesn't really

Jeremy Greer:

matter. So I haven't I'm excited to go through season two and see

Jeremy Greer:

all of the new stuff that I've forgotten that's happened to the

Jeremy Greer:

show. So this was fun. This was super fun again.

Marie Vigouroux:

This was again, super fun. I completely forgot

Marie Vigouroux:

about doing a theme, actually, but I feel like we kind of

Marie Vigouroux:

hammered it home with the whole like not knowing what's going

Marie Vigouroux:

on, and the gas lighting and the manipulation

Jeremy Greer:

And cutting to Hannibal, those are important.

Marie Vigouroux:

Of course. I think that was the theme cut to

Marie Vigouroux:

Hannibal. He's just there staring at will.

Jeremy Greer:

There was so much the first pass I did with the

Jeremy Greer:

video, uh, Judy, who's my video editing guru, was like, a lot of

Jeremy Greer:

these shots are just Hannibal being still. And I'm like, yeah,

Jeremy Greer:

it's great. It's so good.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes and?

Jeremy Greer:

She was like, I think -

Marie Vigouroux:

What's your point?

Jeremy Greer:

I think you want the video to be, like, more

Jeremy Greer:

active, to have more motion. And I'm like, You're not wrong.

Marie Vigouroux:

He's also, like, Yeah. And he's also such

Marie Vigouroux:

But also, just look at him like, it's intense. He's an intense guy

Marie Vigouroux:

a, like, specific person to look at, you know, like, I just - his

Marie Vigouroux:

facial features are fascinating in so many ways.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, there's, there's a movie with him where

Jeremy Greer:

he just gets, he's completely silent through it.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, wow.

Jeremy Greer:

I think this is him, hopefully I'm not thinking

Jeremy Greer:

of the of a different guy that would be embarrassing. But he,

Jeremy Greer:

like, gets dropped into like, a mythical, like, place and has to

Jeremy Greer:

just kill a bunch of people, like, like, fight them. And it

Jeremy Greer:

is like, and he does such an amazing job without saying a

Jeremy Greer:

single word.

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm sure. I'm just, now, I mean, he's an

Marie Vigouroux:

actor, you know, like an actor.

Jeremy Greer:

Oh yeah. So weird that he was, like in Hannibal,

Jeremy Greer:

and also, and also, you know, Doctor Strange. It's very weird.

Jeremy Greer:

Maybe he was -

Marie Vigouroux:

He was Doctor Strange? No, that was Benedict

Marie Vigouroux:

Cumberbatch.

Jeremy Greer:

He was, he was the villain in the movie. Yes,

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, that is correct. Oh my god. You know he

Marie Vigouroux:

was - he was in an interview at some point with another actor

Marie Vigouroux:

where that, like, it was like a press junket of some sort for a

Marie Vigouroux:

movie, and the other actor reads a thing where he's like, how do

Marie Vigouroux:

you feel about your co star having been in Rihanna's music

Marie Vigouroux:

video Bitch better have my money? And he goes, Oh my God,

Marie Vigouroux:

no way you were in that. And he goes, and Mads just goes, Yes,

Marie Vigouroux:

and he smiles, and he goes, I was the bitch. I was just like,

Marie Vigouroux:

I don't think I've ever been so enamored with another human

Marie Vigouroux:

being before. I. I was the bitch. I love him.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, I was, I was right. It was Valhalla Rising.

Jeremy Greer:

Is the name of the movie. I'll send you a screenshot of the of

Jeremy Greer:

the cover, but it's just him, literally, like going through

Jeremy Greer:

this mythological, like heaven kind of thing, and just, he is

Jeremy Greer:

just and he doesn't say a word throughout the whole thing. And

Jeremy Greer:

it's just thrilling. It's just amazing. So anyway, I'll stop

Jeremy Greer:

babbling. I know you have other chores to do.

Marie Vigouroux:

I do.

Jeremy Greer:

Enjoy episode four. Please give me all of your

Jeremy Greer:

thoughts as they are happening. I love to see it.

Marie Vigouroux:

I probably will actually do that right away,

Marie Vigouroux:

because I can get, like another I can get 20 minutes of the

Marie Vigouroux:

episode. All right, I'm gonna let you go, and I will talk to

Marie Vigouroux:

you soon.

Jeremy Greer:

Talk to you later. Bye.

Marie Vigouroux:

Bye.

Marie Vigouroux:

I love how that's like our measure of rude. Would Hannibal

Marie Vigouroux:

eat him? Like, is that? Is he that rude?

Jeremy Greer:

Is he rude enough to be eaten? Here's the question

Jeremy Greer:

we have to ask at every episode

Marie Vigouroux:

Feel like that's the title of the episode,

Marie Vigouroux:

right there,

Jeremy Greer:

Right we got it in one first, like, two seconds.

Marie Vigouroux:

So good, so efficient. Like it's not even

Marie Vigouroux:

one o'clock yet.

Jeremy Greer:

We didn't even say we're gonna record this early,

Jeremy Greer:

and we've already got the title down.

Marie Vigouroux:

I know, oh my god, it's so good -There's so

Marie Vigouroux:

many moments in this episode, actually, where I'm like, he's

Marie Vigouroux:

gonna eat this person?

Jeremy Greer:

Right? Like, you can definitely tell, like, I

Jeremy Greer:

know when I suggested Rude Eats, it was like, a well, what does

Jeremy Greer:

that actually mean? Because we'd only seen like, one episode, but

Jeremy Greer:

like, as you get into it, you're like, oh, oh, okay, now I see he

Jeremy Greer:

just wants to literally eat the rude of everybody.

Marie Vigouroux:

Eat the rude. Forget eat the rich. It's eat

Marie Vigouroux:

the rude.

Jeremy Greer:

Let's do both. Why not both?

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, I'm down like, let's do it.

Jeremy Greer:

Let's do it.

Marie Vigouroux:

Let's do it. Did you want to hear about my

Marie Vigouroux:

trip to France?

Jeremy Greer:

Yes, yes, absolutely. Tell me. Tell me

Jeremy Greer:

everything that you got coming.

Marie Vigouroux:

France was beautiful. It was great. I feel

Marie Vigouroux:

like I need to, like, get this out in the open. But no, I did

Marie Vigouroux:

not see the horse.

Jeremy Greer:

Okay. Yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

Because that's the question that everybody is

Marie Vigouroux:

asking. I didn't see the horse man either.

Jeremy Greer:

This episode that will come out in like, September

Jeremy Greer:

of 2024 we need to tell everybody.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, it's because I realized that I

Marie Vigouroux:

actually so I tweeted about this, but I haven't explained

Marie Vigouroux:

the situation to a lot of people, and I remember that,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, I explained it a little bit in the outtakes of, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

the last episode. So I'm like, Okay, well, I feel now that I

Marie Vigouroux:

have to follow up, right? Like, first of all, I'm still alive,

Marie Vigouroux:

so that's good. You know, there was no murder or murder-suicide

Marie Vigouroux:

involved, which is always great, love those trips. But there was

Marie Vigouroux:

a horse that terrified me because I thought it was the

Marie Vigouroux:

horse. And yeah, but yeah, so that was good. We went camping,

Marie Vigouroux:

got eaten alive by mosquitos, which I didn't think was really

Marie Vigouroux:

possible, considering that I'm from Quebec, and there's, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

so many mosquitos everywhere. We're, like, pretty used to

Marie Vigouroux:

them, pretty immune. But like, this was unlike anything I'd

Marie Vigouroux:

ever seen before. There were so many mosquitos there.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, I live in mosquito capital of the world.

Jeremy Greer:

So, like, it's Autumn, especially, she has relatively

Jeremy Greer:

fair skin, and I guess the sweetest blood alive. I don't

Jeremy Greer:

know, I've never tasted her blood, but like, mosquitoes

Jeremy Greer:

swarm her, like they just like, it is bad. So whenever we go,

Jeremy Greer:

like, do anything outside, she's like, the long sleeve shirt and

Jeremy Greer:

like collar.

Marie Vigouroux:

It's apparently got to do with how much CO2 your

Marie Vigouroux:

body expels, like, through your skin. That's what they're

Marie Vigouroux:

attracted to.

Jeremy Greer:

Interesting. I didn't know that.

Marie Vigouroux:

Because we researched to see if there was

Marie Vigouroux:

anything we could possibly do to make it better. We were like, do

Marie Vigouroux:

we shower? Do we not shower? Like, what's the deal here?

Jeremy Greer:

What will, what will make them go away as fast

Jeremy Greer:

as possible? Is the goal.

Marie Vigouroux:

Exactly. Or what will make them not swarm

Marie Vigouroux:

us? Because, you know, other people were complaining, but we,

Marie Vigouroux:

we got swarmed. I guess we were fresh meat on this campsite.

Jeremy Greer:

There you go.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, there you go. Another rude eats -

Jeremy Greer:

Eaten by mosquitoes. The worst death.

Marie Vigouroux:

Seriously, but yeah, no, it was great. I ate a

Marie Vigouroux:

lot of really good food, and saw my sister, saw her new house,

Marie Vigouroux:

her new old house. And, yeah, I don't know, a lot of fun. Hung

Marie Vigouroux:

out with my brothers too. So that was cool.

Jeremy Greer:

So your whole - does all of your family live in

Jeremy Greer:

France?

Marie Vigouroux:

Wxcept for my mom, yes, and my son.

Jeremy Greer:

Oh, yeah, yeah. I figured that your son still -

Jeremy Greer:

you didn't just -

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah exactly. He hangs out with me.

Jeremy Greer:

leave him in France. This is, this is your

Jeremy Greer:

child, now.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, exactly. It's like, well, you have a home

Marie Vigouroux:

now take him.

Jeremy Greer:

Yes, absolutely. I have a nephew. So I don't have

Jeremy Greer:

any children, so it's like, oh, here's a child, and you can have

Jeremy Greer:

him back. Like, that's, that's the, that's my relationship with

Jeremy Greer:

children. I met my - I was at a funeral, and I met my first

Jeremy Greer:

cousin's daughter, which I guess is like my second cousin. I

Jeremy Greer:

don't, I don't know how that works, but she was, she was very

Jeremy Greer:

young and very vivacious and very, charming. And that was my

Jeremy Greer:

first experience like hanging out with a kid in a very long

Jeremy Greer:

time. And I was just like, Yep, I'm exhausted. This was exactly

Jeremy Greer:

the amount of child that I need in my life now. I need to move

Jeremy Greer:

on to do other things.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, definitely. I mean, I always say that I'm a

Marie Vigouroux:

one hit wonder, in the sense that, like, I don't really

Marie Vigouroux:

foresee myself having other children, just because, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

one is enough. Like, I love him very, very much, and I'm so

Marie Vigouroux:

happy that he's in my life. But, like, this is, this is enough

Marie Vigouroux:

for me. I'm good. I know my limits.

Jeremy Greer:

What um, so I've never been to France. I've been

Jeremy Greer:

to the airport in Paris, like, twice.

Marie Vigouroux:

Cool.I mean, I'm sorry.

Jeremy Greer:

Well, yeah, it's, it's a, it's actually, like, we

Jeremy Greer:

it's a pretty, pretty cool place. Like, the croissants,

Jeremy Greer:

they were amazing. Like, I was just so happy.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yep! And that was just the airport.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, it was just the airport. We were like, wow,

Jeremy Greer:

this is, like, the best thing that we've ever had in an

Jeremy Greer:

airport before. But I've never actually, like, traveled in

Jeremy Greer:

France or anything like that. Like, the food, I have to

Jeremy Greer:

imagine, is just just outstanding, right? Like, it

Jeremy Greer:

just has to be, like, on a different level.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, yes, but like, I also kind of like,

Marie Vigouroux:

fight back against this idea that like French food is, like

Marie Vigouroux:

absolutely out of this world, just because like food can be

Marie Vigouroux:

delicious anywhere you go. And there's a lot of French stuff

Marie Vigouroux:

that I think people wouldn't necessarily love as much as,

Marie Vigouroux:

like the locals do, just because they're, like, they didn't grow

Marie Vigouroux:

up with it. Like, for example, there's, I know, of a lot of

Marie Vigouroux:

like, very local things that I absolutely love, but then other

Marie Vigouroux:

people taste them and they're like, Well, this is just, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

whatever, right? Like, there's this half brioche, have cake,

Marie Vigouroux:

half bread, so like, maybe a third of each thing called

Marie Vigouroux:

fouace, and it's really from a very specific region of France.

Marie Vigouroux:

And when people taste it, they're like, No, this is like,

Marie Vigouroux:

dry cake. And I'm like, no, no, but you don't understand, this

Marie Vigouroux:

is delicious, exactly. And also, I had a conversation with

Marie Vigouroux:

somebody who was American, and they said that when they went to

Marie Vigouroux:

Paris, they were really disappointed with the food,

Marie Vigouroux:

because they felt like it was a little like, it didn't taste as

Marie Vigouroux:

much as like American food. And I this was when I was in

Marie Vigouroux:

Supernatural New Jersey, and I was like, well, having eaten in

Marie Vigouroux:

a couple of like American restaurants in the past few

Marie Vigouroux:

days, I can tell you that I'm really not used to the amount of

Marie Vigouroux:

salt.

Jeremy Greer:

I was actually gonna ask that because, like, we

Jeremy Greer:

just bomb salt on every dish, like it's just and also put,

Jeremy Greer:

like, just drizzled sauces on top of everything. Like, it's

Jeremy Greer:

ridiculous. Being from South Louisiana, we have a really

Jeremy Greer:

hyper localized, like, food set up. So there's like, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

very, very angry people that argue about, like, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

food from the Creole side, or from the, you know, the Cajun

Jeremy Greer:

side, or the area I live in, which is the, wow, I just

Jeremy Greer:

blanked on that word - Acadian side. Sorry. So, and it's just,

Jeremy Greer:

it's just, it's funny to hear that, because we definitely have

Jeremy Greer:

dishes down here that will definitely scare people off

Jeremy Greer:

until they try them. Like you really have to approach it with

Jeremy Greer:

an open mind. I brought my friend Gary down, and I picked

Jeremy Greer:

him up from the airport, and we went to basically a gas station

Jeremy Greer:

that is known for having delicious food, but it's like,

Jeremy Greer:

it's, it's not a gas station, but it was like in a old gas

Jeremy Greer:

station building, and you walk in and it's just like a clear

Jeremy Greer:

glass case full of, like fried food that's totally unhealthy

Jeremy Greer:

for you, and like, a small grocery on the side. And I could

Jeremy Greer:

just see his eyes get like, I can't do any of this. And I was

Jeremy Greer:

like, Hey, go, go sit outside. I'm gonna go buy us a bunch of

Jeremy Greer:

stuff and just not tell you what it is, and I'm gonna feed you.

Jeremy Greer:

And then you could tell me what you could tell me what you like,

Jeremy Greer:

and then I'll tell you what it is afterwards.

Marie Vigouroux:

Weah. I mean, like I had, so actually, I do

Marie Vigouroux:

want to tell this story. We went to a restaurant that is in an

Marie Vigouroux:

area that, like, my dad's family kind of lived for a very, very,

Marie Vigouroux:

very long time. And this is a restaurant that they say, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

has been open for five generations, right? So, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

five generations of the same family have held this

Marie Vigouroux:

restaurant. And it turns out that with my son going there

Marie Vigouroux:

this summer, it's also the fifth generation of our family eating

Marie Vigouroux:

at this restaurant. That's

Jeremy Greer:

That's incredible.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, and obviously, I told my grandpa

Marie Vigouroux:

that we went there and, like, he was like, Oh yeah, you know,

Marie Vigouroux:

because he was an insurance something, something, I can't

Marie Vigouroux:

remember exactly what he was, but he would basically, like,

Marie Vigouroux:

look at damages on farms and be like, this is going to cost this

Marie Vigouroux:

much to repair, right? That was his job. And so whenever he was

Marie Vigouroux:

on the road, he would always organize his schedule, or he

Marie Vigouroux:

said, I would always have my secretary organized my schedule

Marie Vigouroux:

so that I could sit up there for lunch.

Jeremy Greer:

Love it.

Marie Vigouroux:

And I was like, Oh, my God. What a different

Marie Vigouroux:

time.

Jeremy Greer:

You know, I travel for work, so I'm, you know, in a

Jeremy Greer:

typical day, I could go, you know, a couple hours on a

Jeremy Greer:

vehicle, or six hours on a vehicle or whatever. And I go to

Jeremy Greer:

a lot of, like, rural Louisiana places. And there's definitely,

Jeremy Greer:

like, spots where I'll be like, Oh, I'm going to, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

Kaplan today, and there's the there's, they got a delicious

Jeremy Greer:

cheeseburger. So I'm going to do like, this place in the morning,

Jeremy Greer:

and so I can hit Kaplan at 11 and be done by 12 and pick up

Jeremy Greer:

the burger and, like, always do that kind of stuff. So yeah, I

Jeremy Greer:

would imagine any kind of, like traveling work people would do

Jeremy Greer:

that, like insurance or salesman or whatever it is. Like, people

Jeremy Greer:

learn the spots, the cool spots.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh yeah, for sure. And, I mean, it makes

Marie Vigouroux:

sense, right, that you would, that you would do that. And so

Jeremy Greer:

I love it.

Marie Vigouroux:

My dad loved that

Jeremy Greer:

We had a when we were in Italy, we had a dish

Jeremy Greer:

at this restaurant, what we ate that day, because they have

Jeremy Greer:

like, two options on the menu, and it's and the dish that we,

Jeremy Greer:

that the chef described or that the waiter translated for us and

Jeremy Greer:

most of us, picked, was beef cheek. Basically, it was cheek

Jeremy Greer:

of beef, essentially in sauce and red wine sauce. And it was

Jeremy Greer:

said that this was, like a basically carrot three ways. And

Jeremy Greer:

truly one of the best things I've ever eaten in my life. And

Jeremy Greer:

it's never something that I would have ordered, right?

Jeremy Greer:

Because I'm like, beef cheek, oh my god. Like no. Ew. But when

Jeremy Greer:

it's either that or like, les tripoux, which is like, tripe,

Jeremy Greer:

like, yeah. Like, insides, right? Like, you would know,

Jeremy Greer:

actually, I was like, No, I'm not eating that, but I will have

Jeremy Greer:

the beef cheek. And frankly, it was delicious. And my son

Jeremy Greer:

commented that the potatoes must have been sent from heaven.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm kind of a snob when it comes to like watching, we watch Top

Jeremy Greer:

Chef a whole lot, like, we're addicted to that show. And so,

Jeremy Greer:

like, whenever there's like, a dish that's like, such and such,

Jeremy Greer:

three ways. Tom Colicchio, the host is like, are we doing this

Jeremy Greer:

again? And so, like, the waiter, like the chef, we're doing, like

Jeremy Greer:

a chef's table thing. So we didn't, we had no idea what the

Jeremy Greer:

next dish we were getting. So they bring it over, and they're

Jeremy Greer:

like, it's carrot three ways and Autumn and I, like, locked eyes,

Jeremy Greer:

and then, like, tasted it, and it was literally the best thing

Jeremy Greer:

I've ever put in my mouth, ever. Like, we were, like, I was

Jeremy Greer:

almost licking the plate. It was so good. I was like, how do you

Jeremy Greer:

do this with carrots? This is incredible. So, yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, I feel like those are the best culinary

Marie Vigouroux:

experiences where you're like, This was amazing. And it's a

Marie Vigouroux:

dish that, like, you could theoretically make at home, but

Marie Vigouroux:

you could never make at home because you don't have the

Marie Vigouroux:

skills.

Jeremy Greer:

That's the stuff that, like, you know, it's

Jeremy Greer:

really difficult because Autumn loves to cook, and she's and

Jeremy Greer:

she's gotten very good at it, and I, you know, I'm not, I'm

Jeremy Greer:

not, like, I just don't let her go in the kitchen, and I'm,

Jeremy Greer:

like, playing video games or anything. Like, we cook together

Jeremy Greer:

and, like, you know, turn on music and have fun or whatever.

Jeremy Greer:

But like, I am in no way or shape or form close to her

Jeremy Greer:

culinary ability. So it's kind of ruined me for stuff. Like,

Jeremy Greer:

I'll go out and, like, all of my god, like, with customers,

Jeremy Greer:

they're like, Oh, we're gonna get a steak. And I'm like, this,

Jeremy Greer:

please. Because steaks are not as good as Autumn's at home.

Jeremy Greer:

Like, I don't know. So like, going out is definitely stuff,

Jeremy Greer:

like, really difficult dishes to master, like a beef cheek and

Jeremy Greer:

red sauce would be, like, a perfect example of something

Jeremy Greer:

that I would I would order, because it's not something I

Jeremy Greer:

would ever normally eat or wouldn't normally have at the

Jeremy Greer:

house.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, it's interesting,

Marie Vigouroux:

because I feel I have started feeling that way, because I was

Marie Vigouroux:

never a really great cook, like, I cooked more for like, you

Marie Vigouroux:

know, because I had to feed myself and my son, but it was

Marie Vigouroux:

never like something that I really loved but then covid hit,

Marie Vigouroux:

and I couldn't go to restaurants anymore, and I was like, this

Marie Vigouroux:

sucks. So that's when my cooking skills kind of leveled up, and

Marie Vigouroux:

now I'm really disappointed when I go out, because I'm like, I

Marie Vigouroux:

could make this better at home.

Jeremy Greer:

Right?

Marie Vigouroux:

And like, it's bad. Like,

Jeremy Greer:

Why are you charging me $30 for this. Like,

Jeremy Greer:

I could have just done, like, I just stayed home. I didn't even

Jeremy Greer:

have to be social.

Marie Vigouroux:

Exactly.

Jeremy Greer:

We were very much like that before covid. We, you

Jeremy Greer:

know, Autumn would go ride her horse at her barn. It was before

Jeremy Greer:

we had the horses at the house. And then she'd call me, I'm

Jeremy Greer:

like, I'm leaving. Come meet me at such and such. So we would go

Jeremy Greer:

and, like, hang out at the bar and have a couple of drinks and

Jeremy Greer:

have food, and it was like an experience, and all that kind of

Jeremy Greer:

stuff. And then covid hit, and was like, no, no, we got to stay

Jeremy Greer:

home now. So we, like, we bought a grill, we bought a pizza oven,

Jeremy Greer:

we bought a smoker, like, we just started buying all of the

Jeremy Greer:

outdoor kitchen equipment that we could possibly get our hands

Jeremy Greer:

on. So now it's especially bad because, like, if we pick a

Jeremy Greer:

restaurant to go to, it has to be like a restaurant, of, like,

Jeremy Greer:

there's a new dumpling place in town that we're dying to try,

Jeremy Greer:

because it's really difficult to do like, 18 different types of

Jeremy Greer:

dumplings at home, right? So, like, you go to the dumpling

Jeremy Greer:

place for that experience, and yeah, we're excited to try it.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, that's fun. That is exactly the kind of

Marie Vigouroux:

place that you should go, like, because it's yeah, like you

Marie Vigouroux:

said, making 18 different kinds of dumplings is just not,not

Marie Vigouroux:

fun.

Jeremy Greer:

You can do it like, we've made dumplings

Jeremy Greer:

before. It's relatively challenging. It takes a lot of

Jeremy Greer:

work and then, but like, you're not making, again, you're not

Jeremy Greer:

making, like, a bunch of different kinds. And you go to

Jeremy Greer:

the restaurant and you're like, Oh, give me eight dishes on the

Jeremy Greer:

on the table at once, please. So I want to sample everything from

Jeremy Greer:

this, from this, there you go.

Marie Vigouroux:

We do sushi at home now, quite well. Yeah, I

Marie Vigouroux:

learned to make the rice, and honestly, from there, it just

Marie Vigouroux:

kind of snowballed. My son really loves the rolled, like

Marie Vigouroux:

sushi. I prefer the bowls, just because it's easier and it's

Marie Vigouroux:

less fussy. But yeah, we've gotten pretty good at making

Marie Vigouroux:

those.

Jeremy Greer:

So do you have, like, a really good fish source?

Jeremy Greer:

Because I've always been, like, even though I live in, like, on

Jeremy Greer:

the Gulf of Mexico, it's relatively challenging to get

Jeremy Greer:

like, good fresh fish in the area that I'm in. I can, I can

Jeremy Greer:

sometimes find it. I can find, like, local distributors, but a

Jeremy Greer:

lot of it gets frozen on the way to the grocery stores. So I've

Jeremy Greer:

never even thought about trying anything like that for for

Jeremy Greer:

sushi.

Marie Vigouroux:

So we have, not too far from my house, there's,

Marie Vigouroux:

like, a fish - Oh, my God, how do you say this in English, a

Marie Vigouroux:

fishmonger, like a fish person.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah. Fishmonger is good, yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay, perfect. Like, somebody who sells fish,

Marie Vigouroux:

and he, like, whenever I need something sushi quality, I tell

Marie Vigouroux:

him, and he's like, okay, so pick this and this, but not

Marie Vigouroux:

this.

Jeremy Greer:

Oh, okay, so you got a fish guy, is what I'm

Jeremy Greer:

hearing.

Marie Vigouroux:

I got, I got a fish guy, man. Like, he's

Marie Vigouroux:

awesome.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, that's the most important thing in life, is

Jeremy Greer:

having a collection of guys at your disposal. Like having a

Jeremy Greer:

fish guy is good. I've got a I've got a sword guy. He always

Jeremy Greer:

comes through for me,

Marie Vigouroux:

Very cool.

Jeremy Greer:

I've got a dirt guy.

Marie Vigouroux:

Not what I was expecting.

Jeremy Greer:

I had to get rid of my old dirt guy, because even

Jeremy Greer:

though he was a great dirt guy, every time we would, like, have

Jeremy Greer:

a casual conversation, he would just drop the N word -

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh no!

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, and I live around a bunch of racist people,

Jeremy Greer:

like, I acknowledge it, like, it's it's the area that I live

Jeremy Greer:

in, but at the same time, like I don't necessarily want to hear

Jeremy Greer:

it then, like, there's no Black people around like, why are you

Jeremy Greer:

talking about this with this way around me? So yeah, now I have a

Jeremy Greer:

new dirt guide. So far, he has not been racist around me.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, I feel like that's already a better

Marie Vigouroux:

dirt guy than the other dirt guy.

Jeremy Greer:

But yeah, having having the collection of guys is

Jeremy Greer:

super important. So I wish I had a fish guy.

Marie Vigouroux:

Actually, I am looking to add a flour guy to my

Marie Vigouroux:

life right now, because I'm looking for stone milled flour.

Marie Vigouroux:

Anyway, I'm Yes, I'm looking for -

Jeremy Greer:

For bread. Because it makes better bread. Yeah,

Jeremy Greer:

absolutely,

Marie Vigouroux:

It makes better bread because it's not - the way

Marie Vigouroux:

that we mill grain today, is actually with two cylinders, and

Marie Vigouroux:

it mills the grain. But the thing is, like during that

Marie Vigouroux:

process, it heats up the grain, and then you lose a lot of

Marie Vigouroux:

nutrients through that process. But on the stone, the way that

Marie Vigouroux:

it's actually milled, like, you don't lose those nutrients,

Marie Vigouroux:

because the heat, like, the temperature doesn't go up.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah. I've heard so I've heard of this. I was

Jeremy Greer:

started like, researching bread making, because I thought I was

Jeremy Greer:

gonna get into it, and then I realized that, oh, wait,

Jeremy Greer:

chemotherapy hurts like this. I can't be making bread all the

Jeremy Greer:

time. Like, I have to go sit on the couch now.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

But that was one of the things, is, like, don't

Jeremy Greer:

buy, like, your local flour sucks. Was what all of the

Jeremy Greer:

websites said. Like, don't - try to find, like, stone milled or

Jeremy Greer:

they were, like, order this special flour from France. And

Jeremy Greer:

I'm like, I don't think that I'm quite there yet. I don't think

Jeremy Greer:

I'm ordering international flour.So I'm just gonna wait.

Marie Vigouroux:

I'm not there either, but it turns out that

Marie Vigouroux:

there is a mill, a flour mill, that still mills with a stone

Marie Vigouroux:

not that far from my house. And so I'm gonna go visit it and buy

Marie Vigouroux:

some of their flour to see how it feels.

Jeremy Greer:

That's great.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes.

Jeremy Greer:

You're gonna have a flour guy, a fish guy.

Jeremy Greer:

Unfortunately, you have a horse guy, getting rid of

Marie Vigouroux:

I know!

Marie Vigouroux:

that

Marie Vigouroux:

Despite, you know, despite my best

Marie Vigouroux:

intentions, I do have a horse guy, do you know that that horse

Marie Vigouroux:

is actually legally in my name?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, you mentioned this to me, and it

Jeremy Greer:

makes the story so, so much worse. Because when you

Jeremy Greer:

originally told me this, I just thought, like, hey, like, it'd

Jeremy Greer:

be like, kind of like buying somebody a car, like, you don't

Jeremy Greer:

necessarily put it in their name immediately. You're like, I'm

Jeremy Greer:

gonna buy the car, and then I'll transfer the title to you, or

Jeremy Greer:

something, right. Like, so him legally put it in your name. And

Jeremy Greer:

like, if something happens to that horse, like in America, for

Jeremy Greer:

example, like, if that horse was on like, a farm somewhere, and

Jeremy Greer:

it was like, not eating or not being fed, and it was bad. And

Jeremy Greer:

like, the government came in, what's like, whose horse is

Jeremy Greer:

this? Like you would be in trouble, like you would get like

Jeremy Greer:

they would trace the registration and be like, Why

Jeremy Greer:

aren't you feeding this horse? This is terrible.

Marie Vigouroux:

I know.

Jeremy Greer:

And so, like, I'm just, I just, I'm terrified of

Jeremy Greer:

this idea of there, you know, like you're responsible for a

Jeremy Greer:

horse that's 18,000 miles away from you. It's ridiculous.

Marie Vigouroux:

I don't even know how to take care of horses.

Marie Vigouroux:

Jeremy.

Jeremy Greer:

I mean, look, when Autumn goes on vacation, she

Jeremy Greer:

leaves me, literally, zip lock bags full of like, 18 different

Jeremy Greer:

ingredients I'm supposed to feed the horses. I could never figure

Jeremy Greer:

this out.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh no. Oh yeah, no, there's no way. But yeah, I

Marie Vigouroux:

have thought about that, and I'm like, What if, and how would he

Marie Vigouroux:

even transfer it to his name now?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, do you have to, like, do something?

Marie Vigouroux:

I don't know. I really don't know. There's

Jeremy Greer:

There's big drama in the horse world, by the way.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, tell me, apparently that's my world now,

Marie Vigouroux:

so, right, yeah, I'm a horse owner.

Jeremy Greer:

The Olympics are happening, and Charlotte,

Jeremy Greer:

Charlotte Desjardins is a famous dressage rider and who has

Jeremy Greer:

collected a wider range of awards and as relatively like

Jeremy Greer:

well internationally known for being one of the best trainers

Jeremy Greer:

ever, right? Like she is elitist of the elite. And apparently, a

Jeremy Greer:

video resurfaced of her from a couple years ago, where she is

Jeremy Greer:

just whipping the shit out of a horse during a training session.

Jeremy Greer:

So she, like, released a statement saying that she was

Jeremy Greer:

going to withdraw from the Olympics. And then the FEI who

Jeremy Greer:

kind of oversees the horse side of the Olympics, was like,

Jeremy Greer:

actually, you're suspended. And now somebody has, like, put the

Jeremy Greer:

video out there, even though it's from like, two and a half

Jeremy Greer:

years ago or something. So the whole horse world is exploding.

Jeremy Greer:

And I made the mistake of, like, seeing this on TikTok, and then

Jeremy Greer:

telling autumn, like, Oh, hey, here's the video. Like, you

Jeremy Greer:

should check it out. And now my TikTok is nothing but horses.

Marie Vigouroux:

You shared.

Jeremy Greer:

Yes. And now TikTokis like, Oh, you like

Jeremy Greer:

horses. And I'm like, I don't, I don't. Please stop. Please go

Jeremy Greer:

back to Elden ring videos.

Marie Vigouroux:

That's so funny. Oh my God, my Instagram

Marie Vigouroux:

is kind of doing that to me right now, to be honest, because

Marie Vigouroux:

my dad is doing this ultra cycling event, which is like

Marie Vigouroux:

4000 kilometers from Italy all the way to the Arctic Circle.

Marie Vigouroux:

He's He's crazy, but he's enjoying it. So whatever. And so

Marie Vigouroux:

I've been following like the Instagram account of the race

Marie Vigouroux:

right to try to see like what they're posting and everything.

Marie Vigouroux:

And now I get ads for cycling stuff, and I hate cycling so

Marie Vigouroux:

badly.

Jeremy Greer:

I'm a known hater of bicyclists. I know it's not I

Jeremy Greer:

know it's not PC. I know it's not cool, but I've just never

Jeremy Greer:

liked them, never liked to do it on a bicycle, on a sidewalk,

Jeremy Greer:

like just always irritated me for since I was a young child,

Jeremy Greer:

and I, yeah, I hate them. I don't try to hit them with my

Jeremy Greer:

car anymore. I think that's I've grown.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh gosh.

Jeremy Greer:

I've matured.

Marie Vigouroux:

I mean, I don't mind the cyclists, to be fair. I

Marie Vigouroux:

just hate cycling myself.

Jeremy Greer:

I don't like the whole set. I hate all of it. Why

Jeremy Greer:

do you have those weird things?

Marie Vigouroux:

It's also that, like, the roads in in America

Marie Vigouroux:

aren't really like, yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah. it's, it's really, really bad

Marie Vigouroux:

You know, yeah, they're not made for cycling.

Jeremy Greer:

Once you once, once you start like, looking for

Jeremy Greer:

just like pedestrian walkways in Louisiana, especially, our towns

Jeremy Greer:

are not built for it whatsoever, like it is astoundingly bad.

Jeremy Greer:

There's a highway that I drive down every day to get to the

Jeremy Greer:

interstate, and you know, a couple people I see on a regular

Jeremy Greer:

basis are like, riding their bicycle on the basically, like

Jeremy Greer:

there is hardly any shoulder, so it's like, basically on the

Jeremy Greer:

road. And people do, like, 65 miles an hour, which is probably

Jeremy Greer:

100,000 kilometers per hour. I don't remember what -

Marie Vigouroux:

Obviously, yes, that makes sense.

Jeremy Greer:

The people traveling very fast down that

Jeremy Greer:

road, and I'm just terrified I'm going to come across an accident

Jeremy Greer:

someday, because, I mean, it just seems inevitable, because

Jeremy Greer:

there's no nowhere for them to be, and they're bicycling to

Jeremy Greer:

work. So like, I don't you know, what are you going to do anyway?

Jeremy Greer:

Let me get on my high horse about this.

Marie Vigouroux:

No horses!

Jeremy Greer:

No horses allowed.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, my God, are we ready to talk about this

Marie Vigouroux:

episode? Do we have anything to talk about?

Jeremy Greer:

Are you ready to talk about this episode? I think

Jeremy Greer:

it's gonna be the first question.

Marie Vigouroux:

I feel like I need to talk about this episode.

Marie Vigouroux:

Like I need to exorcise it from my body.

Jeremy Greer:

So I listened to the first two episodes when I

Jeremy Greer:

was editing them, and we actually did the intros

Jeremy Greer:

differently each time. So the first time we did like, like, I

Jeremy Greer:

kind of how I have it in the notes right now and then. The

Jeremy Greer:

second time, we actually said the episode we were covering and

Jeremy Greer:

listening to it. I don't know if you have yet. I've kind of

Jeremy Greer:

prefer the first way where we just say, like, here's the

Jeremy Greer:

podcast, the intro, and then we introduce the episode after the

Jeremy Greer:

intro. It just kind of sounded better to me. But I wanted to

Jeremy Greer:

get your opinion, see if you had an opinion on it at all.

Marie Vigouroux:

To be honest, I haven't listened to the

Marie Vigouroux:

episodes. I listened to the first one, and I thought that

Marie Vigouroux:

that was good.

Jeremy Greer:

Okay, well, that's - the first one is where we did

Jeremy Greer:

that.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, there you go. I liked that part.

Jeremy Greer:

And then we can, we can DM about this. This isn't

Jeremy Greer:

necessarily important, but I've done before, and I don't know if

Jeremy Greer:

it really works with a one minute video, but I've done like

Jeremy Greer:

premieres for like YouTube videos, right?

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, yeah!

Jeremy Greer:

So you get, you can kind of time it. You can

Jeremy Greer:

schedule it. People can, like, gather, and then like, everyone

Jeremy Greer:

can, like, you know, be in the chat. It's gonna be really weird

Jeremy Greer:

for 90-second video, because, like, the lead up will take

Jeremy Greer:

longer, like, we'll be, it'll be a 10 minute thing, and like, a

Jeremy Greer:

minute and a half will be the actual content. Do you want to

Jeremy Greer:

do that? I guess, first and foremost. Was gonna be my

Jeremy Greer:

question. And then if we launch on the fourth like, did you

Jeremy Greer:

wanna release the trailer in the first episode? Like, have all of

Jeremy Greer:

that happen that Sunday at the same time with the video? Or,

Jeremy Greer:

like, put out the trailer earlier? Or, I don't know what

Jeremy Greer:

makes sense, I kinda wanted to pick your brain about it.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay, so that's a really good question. I'm

Marie Vigouroux:

thinking I would like maybe the first episode to come out on the

Marie Vigouroux:

fourth and the trailer to maybe come out like the day before, or

Marie Vigouroux:

two days before, just to kind of get people, like, excited about

Marie Vigouroux:

it,so that people can actually, like, subscribe and everything,

Jeremy Greer:

Excellent. Yeah. And then we can do like, the

Jeremy Greer:

video launch when we release the trailer, right? Like, we can

Jeremy Greer:

have those happen at the same time. So we can schedule that. I

Jeremy Greer:

can put the links in the in the show notes and all that stuff.

Jeremy Greer:

So it'll, it'll just all happen magically.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah, perfect.

Jeremy Greer:

Well, let's plan on doing that, like Saturday the

Jeremy Greer:

third. And then I'll, I'll start putting out, like notices with

Jeremy Greer:

people and being like, hey, you need to show up here on the

Jeremy Greer:

third.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yes, exactly. Hang out with us on the third.

Marie Vigouroux:

Yeah.

Jeremy Greer:

AOnd hopefully by then, like, our, you know,

Jeremy Greer:

Gmail, will be restored.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh my god. I can't believe that that

Marie Vigouroux:

happened. Like, what is the reason that they gave you

Marie Vigouroux:

anyway?

Jeremy Greer:

It just said it just violated the terms of

Jeremy Greer:

service. And I don't know if it was, like, creating it and then

Jeremy Greer:

not using it. Like, maybe they thought that somebody was just

Jeremy Greer:

creating fake accounts or something.

Marie Vigouroux:

That's right, because I didn't create the

Marie Vigouroux:

Twitter immediately after, I was like, whatever, I have time for

Marie Vigouroux:

this.

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah, and I didn't, I haven't done like, I

Jeremy Greer:

was logging in to do the YouTube right? Because it's associated

Jeremy Greer:

with the Gmail account. So I was gonna do all of that stuff. It's

Jeremy Greer:

like, I got completely blocked.

Marie Vigouroux:

Oh, no.

Jeremy Greer:

So hopefully we'll have all that stuff figured out.

Jeremy Greer:

But okay.

Marie Vigouroux:

They said two business days, right? So

Marie Vigouroux:

technically, tomorrow or Friday?

Jeremy Greer:

Yeah.

Marie Vigouroux:

Okay, that's fun, hopefully. So I can't

Marie Vigouroux:

believe that Gmail is being so rude, so rude!

Jeremy Greer:

So rude. And speaking of rude, that's all I

Jeremy Greer:

got.

Jeremy Greer:

Hannibal eat them.

Jeremy Greer:

If you want to talk about Hannibal eating people, we can,

Jeremy Greer:

we can jump in.

Marie Vigouroux:

I do want to talk about Hannibal eating

Marie Vigouroux:

people, nothing would give me more pleasure.

Jeremy Greer:

He doesn't eat anybody in this episode, though.

Marie Vigouroux:

I know I'm very sad about that.

Jeremy Greer:

Unless he saves some bits. We don't know.

Marie Vigouroux:

Well, you know, it's the whole thing about like,

Marie Vigouroux:

honoring every part right where nothing goes to waste. So, so

Marie Vigouroux:

Creepy. Okay, I'm Ready.

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About the Podcast

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Rude Eats: A Hannibal Podcast
Feast your ears on Rude Eats, the new podcast that's been simmering in the shadows, where we dissect NBC's Hannibal with dark humor and ominous insights. Hosted by Marie Vigouroux and Jeremy Greer, art by AlexDreamsArt, music by Jake Lionheart.

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About your hosts

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Marie Vigouroux

I used to describe myself as a foodie in the heyday of Instagram food pics.
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Jeremy Greer

I would very much like to boop Hannibal on the nose one day.